Abstinence in marriage

[Tosk]

Irregular cycles are perfectly healthy and normal while BF’ing. There would be nothing to “fix”.

It isn’t while she is breastfeeding. I don’t know for sure but they might just get lucky like me and my wife did.

 

[whm]

Maybe you should see a doctor about the irregular cycles. He might have to prescribe some sort of oral contraception for medical purposes and that would mean no more NFP. :extrahappy: :dancing: :dancing:

Huh??

 

[Em_in_FL]

It isn’t while she is breastfeeding. I don’t know for sure but they might just get lucky like me and my wife did.

Sorry, you’re right… but still, how does that make you “lucky”? Many OB’s prescribe birth control pills because they don’t truly understand the CAUSE of irregular cycles - the pill just covers up *symptoms *- it doesn’t fix the root problems. I’d be wary that underlying issues are not being taken care of, but only a specialist (not necessarily your regular OB) could determine that.

For irregular cycles - you could start out by improving lifestyle issues - diet, nutrition, and exercise. Here’s a great resource: amazon.com/Fertility-Cycles-Nutrition-Marilyn-Shannon/dp/0926412094

If you suspect a true medical condition - consider seeing a Reproductive Endocrinologist - a *specialist *that can get to the root issues that most OB’s tend to cover up by prescribing the pill.

 

[utunumsint]

Sorry, you’re right… but still, how does that make you “lucky”? Many OB’s prescribe birth control pills because they don’t truly understand the CAUSE of irregular cycles - the pill just covers up *symptoms *- it doesn’t fix the root problems. I’d be wary that underlying issues are not being taken care of, but only a specialist (not necessarily your regular OB) could determine that.

For irregular cycles - you could start out by improving lifestyle issues - diet, nutrition, and exercise. Here’s a great resource: amazon.com/Fertility-Cycles-Nutrition-Marilyn-Shannon/dp/0926412094

If you suspect a true medical condition - consider seeing a Reproductive Endocrinologist - a *specialist *that can get to the root issues that most OB’s tend to cover up by prescribing the pill.

This is exactly our experience. Our OB is overworked, and doesn’t want to take the time to help us with this. He has no respect for NFP, or for our decision to use it. All he does it take thyroid tests and tell us she’s a little low, but within the normal range. Another doctor said she was borderline hypothyroidism, but again, not enough to perscribe synthetic hormones.

THe bottom line is that I don’t trust our doctors around here, and neither does my wife. I’ll look into a reproductive endocrinologist. I haven’t heard of that yet. They probably only focus on people with fertility issues.

Thank you, and God bless,
Ut

P.S. We already have the book you recommended. All it seemed to recommend for hypothyroidism was higher idodized salt intake.

 

[Em_in_FL]

I’ll look into a reproductive endocrinologist. I haven’t heard of that yet. They probably only focus on people with fertility issues.

Thank you, and God bless,
Ut

Irregular cycles might be fertility issues! Not INfertility issues, but fertility issues none the less!

God bless!

 

[PennitentMan]

Originally Posted by **maryjk **

Maryjk, Rascalking is right. I’m the one you should be directing that comment at. I kinda disagree that I’m trying to convince anyone to join my sin, but I do want to make people see that all rules cannot be followed with blindfolds on…especially if it’s made up by a celibate guy about how and when I am allowed to make love to my wife.

Maryjk: You talk about 8 weeks? That’s child’s-play where most of these folks are concerned. Remember they are talking about long term abstinence, the kind that does harm to a marriage.

 

[PennitentMan]

Originally Posted by **maryjk **

Maryjk, Rascalking is right. I’m the one you should be directing that comment at. I kinda disagree that I’m trying to convince anyone to join my sin, but I do want to make people see that all rules cannot be followed with blindfolds on…especially if it’s made up by a celibate guy about how and when I am allowed to make love to my wife.

Maryjk: You talk about 8 weeks? That’s child’s-play where most of these folks are concerned. Remember they are talking about long term abstinence, the kind that does harm to a marriage.

 

[PennitentMan]

Yesterday was a bad day. I had spiritual direction and a good confession, so things are much brighter today.

Glad to hear buddy, I’m happy for ya!

 

[utunumsint]

Maryjk, Rascalking is right. I’m the one you should be directing that comment at. I kinda disagree that I’m trying to convince anyone to join my sin, but I do want to make people see that all rules cannot be followed with blindfolds on…especially if it’s made up by a celibate guy about how and when I am allowed to make love to my wife.

Maryjk: You talk about 8 weeks? That’s child’s-play where most of these folks are concerned. Remember they are talking about long term abstinence, the kind that does harm to a marriage.

I believe in the principles that the church teaches, and that in principle, there are things that are always wrong. The church has a job to point these out. But in practice, there are times where it is important to be flexible. God is the only one who can truly know our conscience.

I think its also important to realize that the issue of sexual ethics has been overblown in our society. Glutonny, sloth, greed, jealousy, pride, and hatred are just as much sins as sexual impurity. And yet they get little to no attention from people these days even though all of these can be considered mortal sins.

I would venture to say that our obsession with sexual purity is a form of pride, especially when all these other sins (and corresponding virtues) are neglected.

I mean, even if I went to confession every week, I would still find things to confess, like gluttony (I had four beers last weekend), sloth (I couldn’t get out of bed this morning), anger (I lost my temper when my son decided it would be fun shake our 5 week old’s car seat). But for some reason, sexual impurity takes pride of place over all of these sins.

The bottom line is that we are all on a journey towards spiritual union with God, and most of us will be spending a long time in purgatory, if we are honest with ourselves.

God bless,
Ut

 

[maryjk]

Its not the Cafeteria Catholic that we hate, its that sin of trying to convince others to join you in your sin. You know the old “love the sinner, hate the sin.”

About abstinence, what would you do if your spouse became so sick they couldn’t have marital relations for 6 months? Or forever? If you have children, what did you do after the birth of your child? For us, it was 7 weeks, and I was on bed rest for 3 before the birth. That makes 10 weeks. What do you think the spouses of those overseas do? I have a friend that will be gone for 14 months, what will his wife do?

Now I wouldn’t want to think about going forever, I can look back during my married life and see that there were many times of abstinence. After the birth of our child, after my husband’s heart attack, after my leg surgery were each times of at least 8 weeks of abstinence. Was it fun, no. But if I had to do it again, I could.

Maryjk, Rascalking is right. I’m the one you should be directing that comment at. I kinda disagree that I’m trying to convince anyone to join my sin, but I do want to make people see that all rules cannot be followed with blindfolds on…especially if it’s made up by a celibate guy about how and when I am allowed to make love to my wife.

Maryjk: You talk about 8 weeks? That’s child’s-play where most of these folks are concerned. Remember they are talking about long term abstinence, the kind that does harm to a marriage.

As I said, at least 8 weeks. It really isn’t anyone’s business how long we went without after my husband’s heart attack, now is it? And I also said that I wouldn’t want to go forever. Although after his heart it felt like forever.

You conveniently didn’t address those people that do have to abstain for longer periods of time or even forever.

Would you divorce your wife if she were in a car accident that made her unable to EVER make love again? What if something happened to you, would you happily tell her to leave you so she wouldn’t have to abstain?

I think we have to get over thinking that God ever said life was easy. It isn’t.

And the rules of the Catholic Church weren’t “made up.”

 

[PennitentMan]

And the rules of the Catholic Church weren’t “made up.”

 

[Rascalking]

As I said, at least 8 weeks. It really isn’t anyone’s business how long we went without after my husband’s heart attack, now is it? And I also said that I wouldn’t want to go forever. Although after his heart it felt like forever.

You conveniently didn’t address those people that do have to abstain for longer periods of time or even forever.

Would you divorce your wife if she were in a car accident that made her unable to EVER make love again? What if something happened to you, would you happily tell her to leave you so she wouldn’t have to abstain?

I think we have to get over thinking that God ever said life was easy. It isn’t.

And the rules of the Catholic Church weren’t “made up.”

With all due respect, when talking about "car accidents and massive diseases that cause an inability to make love, that has NOTHING to do with a normal, healthy couples lovemaking. There is a huge, astronomical difference between a young, healthy, and normal couples sex life and a couple who has physical disabilies. You can’t comapare the two.

 

[Bluegoat]

I don’t quite remember from before - your wife has no luck figuring out if she is fertile while breastfeeding? I’d be trying to avoid the return of normal cycles, rather than bring them on.

In any case - if you night wean from the breast that early, you may well have to give a bottle - I’m sure you know this, but I have met people who don’t so I no longer take such things for granted!

 

[Em_in_FL]

With all due respect, when talking about "car accidents and massive diseases that cause an inability to make love, that has NOTHING to do with a normal, healthy couples lovemaking. There is a huge, astronomical difference between a young, healthy, and normal couples sex life and a couple who has physical disabilies. You can’t comapare the two.

Sure you can compare them! Do age or health have ANYTHING to do with struggling against sin? Do you think you just DESERVE a carefree sex life because you’re young and have a higher sexual desire? We’re YOUNG in IN LOVE - we deserve this! As if being old or unhealthy takes away from that love…

Like Ut pointed out - sexual sin is just one of several “deadly” sins… and the same applies across the board! Sin is sin… regardless of your “condition” in life.

 

[Rascalking]

Sure you can compare them! Do age or health have ANYTHING to do with struggling against sin? Do you think you just DESERVE a carefree sex life because you’re young and have a higher sexual desire? We’re YOUNG in IN LOVE - we deserve this! As if being old or unhealthy takes away from that love…

Like Ut pointed out - sexual sin is just one of several “deadly” sins… and the same applies across the board! Sin is sin… regardless of your “condition” in life.

No, you actually can’t compare them. Age and health have alot to do with sexual sin. No, I don’t think you deserve a carefree sexual life. I think you are allowed to enjoy each other bodies all throughout marriage. I never said being old or unhealthy takes away from that. You misunderstood my point. What I said was as a younger couple, often times you have more of an interest, and more of the energy to engage in lovemaking. As an older couple, you might have a loss of energy or desire. (I am sure that studies back me up that younger married couples generally have more sex than older married couples.

A married couple that is still fertile has to worry about different things than a married infertile couple.

Your eye rolling is not appreciated.

 

[Em_in_FL]

No, you actually can’t compare them. Age and health have alot to do with sexual sin. No, I don’t think you deserve a carefree sexual life. I think you are allowed to enjoy each other bodies all throughout marriage. I never said being old or unhealthy takes away from that. You misunderstood my point. What I said was as a younger couple, often times you have more of an interest, and more of the energy to engage in lovemaking. As an older couple, you might have a loss of energy or desire. (I am sure that studies back me up that younger married couples generally have more sex than older married couples.

A married couple that is still fertile has to worry about different things than a married infertile couple.

Your eye rolling is not appreciated.

Okay, then my apologies for the eye rolls, I’m sorry.

But I still cannot understand your point. …
Sex is *twofold *in marriage - BOTH for the good of the couple and for procreation… you CANNOT separate the two.

Sin is sin - regardless of whether or not you’re more drawn toward that desire.
NFP is a struggle, but it’s not impossible.

 

[Rascalking]

Okay, then my apologies for the eye rolls, I’m sorry.

But I still cannot understand your point. …
Sex is *twofold *in marriage - BOTH for the good of the couple and for procreation… you CANNOT separate the two.

Sin is sin - regardless of whether or not you’re more drawn toward that desire.
NFP is a struggle, but it’s not impossible.

Thanks for the apologies! Your a good person!

I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[agapewolf]

It’s amazing to me that people don’t get this connection.

People say they can abstain if needed because of handicap or illness…which is only a peripheral reason honestly…becasue of the nature of the sex act needed certain energy.

But to abstain because not desiring the actual natural cause of sex …children…people have an issue with this. It doesn’t make sense.

 

[Good_Daughter]

Remember they are talking about long term abstinence, the kind that does harm to a marriage.

While you’re free to share your personal experience, you can’t possibly claim as a fact that long term abstinence does harm to a marriage.

Remember the OP’s clear request?

What I would like to hear in this thread are people’s positive experiences of abstinence.

PennitentMan, you’ve posted extensively on the exact opposite!

Since you’ve turned from things like Catholicism and marital abstinence, you claim to have found peace. I’ll have to take you at your word as your posts sound anything but peaceful.

On a lighter note, I think God loves Canadians. After all, He gave us* The Red Green Show*…

 

[PennitentMan]

Sex is *twofold *in marriage - BOTH for the good of the couple and for procreation… you CANNOT separate the two.

And that is one of the cruxes of the churches inability to apply their rules to society, or should I rather say why the churches rules fail in society and why 95% of Catholics use ABC. The church just don’t get it that the two have to be separated. The actually even teach it in NFP classes, they just phrase it so that it sounds like it’s inseparable.

Every time you willingly engage in sex while knowing that you are in the infertile part of your cycle, specifically those for whom NFP works, you are separating the act.

NFP is a struggle, but it’s not impossible.

You are generalizing.