Abuse Accusations Against Orange County Bishop Tod Brown says L.A. Times

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I’m not sure what to make of this LA Times story.
Isn’t this the same Bishop Brown who closed down
the popular archdiocesan Latin Mass Community in
Orange, California last year ?

latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-bishop14sep14,0,7242667.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-california
Yes that is the same bishop. He also scolded a couple of people for kneeling after the Agnus Dei.

However, the accusations were determined by police to be “not credible”. So they should be ignored.
 
I hope the accusations are false, too.
For the bishop’s soul’s sake, and for the Church’s reputations sake too.

If they were true, I hope he made a thorough repentance.
If he has made a thorough repentance, it is really
cheesy for the L.A. Times to bring it up.
You never know what to believe from the Media anymore.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
The depostion states that police AND CHURCH OFFICIALS determined the accusations to be “not credible”. In 1997,
*** 5 YEARS before the extent of the abuse was publicized, ALL police and church officials determined the accusations were not credible. But that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.* Dozens of Dioceses around the country have paid out hundreds of millions of dollars to these people who were abused by priests “whose charges were determined to be not credible by Church officials”. But they paid!**

and that isn’t the only thing disclosed in Bishop Brown’s deposition.

read this:
blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/ex-cathedra/the-annotated-bishop-brown-dep/

and this:
on page 11,12 and 13 of the actual deposition (on this page:
ocregister.com/newsimages/more_news/2007/09/Brown.Bishop.REDACTED.pdf

B. Brown states that he has not spoken to Mr Andrade (who will be in court within the next few weeks, charged with sexually abusing a child at Mater Dei); he has not been contacted by the school, principal, teacher, his own office staff - he says he knows NOTHING about the charges - except what his lawyers have told him and WHAT HE HAS READ IN THE PAPERS!!!

This is the man responsible for the hundreds of millions of dollars of the laity’s money, the thousands of employees of all the schools and pastors and priests - and he hasn’t even asked to be informed of lawlessness of his employees? He STILL hasn’t made it clear to his thousands of employees that AFTER THE POLICE ARE NOTIFIED, HE is to be notified?

This is one sick man - hiding in a hole, with the sole purpose of protecting himself, his lifestyle, “his” money and his buddies. Read the entire deposition - it is shocking.
 
Must’ve been a slow news day. A deposition reveals that a Bishop was accused of molesting someone 10 years ago, which was denied & found to be a baseless accusation by police.

Ooooh!

The “big deal” seems to be that “Bishop Brown HID this!!!”

“HID” what? That someone falsely accused him of doing something wrong once? Please.

Does that mean that now, every church official has to make like “Chunk” in the movie “The Goonies”, telling “everything”?

Fratelli brother: “Spill your guts. Tell us everything.”

Chunk: “Everything?”

Fratelli brother: “Everything.”

Chunk: *"Okay, I’ll talk.
  • In 3rd grade, I cheated on my history exam.
  • In 4th grade, I stole my uncle’s toupee and glued it on my face when I played Moses in my Hebrew school play.
  • In 5th grade, I knocked my sister down the stairs, and I blamed our dog."*
    … waaaaahh
To quote Charlie Brown: “Good Grief!”
🤷
 
Chris Writ

You’re serious?

You’re either unbelievably naive about this particular bishop or you’re part of his staff or one of his “special” priests. Like Fr. McKiernan, or Rod Stephens, or “Barney” Bailey, or Fr. Salazar, or Fr. Daniel Murry VOCATIONS director, or Fr. Urell, fugitive.

Have you read the deposition?
latimes.com/media/acrobat/2007-09/32533834.pdf

Do you know anything about this bishop?
Have you read this?
renewamerica.us/columns/abbott/060420%between%
Just for kicks, do a search on “Bishop Tod Brown” and become aware of the constant atrocities from this man.

Here are a few YOUTUBE links for Bishop Brown:

youtube.com/watch?v=fHi_VZLtcQ8
and
youtube.com/watch?v=Fv_y47x9kSk
and
youtube.com/watch?v=j0yfdbxr7qM

He gives LOADS of support to everybody gay and all kinds of liturgical abuse and he gives silence and ridicule for everybody else.

He’s a disasterous bishop (100,200,000 Catholics in his diocese - he ordained 2 priests this year) Solidly Catholic young men are forced to leave the diocese to become priests. EVERYBODY knows what an unbelievably atrocious bishop he is.

Take some time, read the articles and look at the videos. Do a little homework, then come back and comment -
 
Must’ve been a slow news day. A deposition reveals that a Bishop was accused of molesting someone 10 years ago, which was denied & found to be a baseless accusation by police.

🤷
Gosh, you sound like an employee of the chancery or one of his “favored” priests/pastors (you know, the ones with the great digs outside the parish walls, in gated and guarded communities)

If you recall, back in 1997 - (5 years before the scandals exploded in the Boston Globe) ALL “Church Officials” dismissed homosexual rape charges against their priests and most police sided with the Churches.

Have you read the entire deposition?
latimes.com/media/acrobat/2007-09/32533834.pdf
(page 20 - 23) - (page 29-30) ) - (page 31-36) (38-39) (46-50) etc, etc, etc.

There are 143 pages of testimony - the abuse that did or did not occur that was dismissed by police and “church officials” (as ALL of the thousands of abuses had been dismissed for the previous 40 years) is just ONE MORE ABUSE of the “Covenant With the Faithful” given to us by Bishop Tod Brown.

rcbo.org/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=197&Itemid=58

There’s a VERY good abridged version of the deposition (with comments) here:
blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/ex-cathedra/the-annotated-bishop-brown-dep/

Are you not aware of Bishop Brown’s unending liturgical abuses that are allowed, unchecked, by him

youtube.com/watch?v=khco_N-uEOY
and
youtube.com/watch?v=fHi_VZLtcQ8
and
youtube.com/watch?v=Fv_y47x9kSk
Yah, that’s all forgiven,

, while the 300 people who are left at St. Mary’s are hollered at, accused of mortal sin, kicked out of the parish AND diocese by the administrator, refused the Tridentine after giving the infamous Bishop Brown 1200 signatures requesting it (all with threads and post on Catholic Answers)
  • this entire deposition is just more of Bishop Brown in action, deceiving his flock,
and covering his butt.

Here’s a good link to distressing situations in the past.
Just the old stuff.
renewamerica.us/columns/abbott/060420
 
Wow.
Sounds like the bishop isn’t
one of the greatest of guys.
Sad.
We have a right to expect better of our Shepherds.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
Gosh, you sound like an employee of the chancery or one of his “favored” priests/pastors (you know, the ones with the great digs outside the parish walls, in gated and guarded communities)
I’m so humiliated.

Waitaminnute: I don’t live in CA, I don’t work for the Church, I don’t live in a “gated & guarded” community, & my house is a “work in progress fixer-upper.”

Oh. Well. Never mind, then.
Have you read the entire deposition? latimes.com/media/acrobat/2007-09/32533834.pdf
(page 20 - 23) - (page 29-30) ) - (page 31-36) (38-39) (46-50) etc, etc, etc.
Yes - In fact, I’ve read ALL the pages, not only the ones you have highlighted.
There are 143 pages of testimony
There are 173 pages in the actual deposition transcript, not 143 as in the edited version that OCWEEKLY offers. Funny how they complain of the Church “hiding portions of the truth”, then do the same themselves.
  • the abuse that did or did not occur that was dismissed by police and “church officials” (as ALL of the thousands of abuses had been dismissed for the previous 40 years) is just ONE MORE ABUSE of the “Covenant With the Faithful” given to us by Bishop Tod Brown.
Not sure I understand your statement here. Are you trying to claim that the deposition was an abuse of some sort? If so, how?
There’s a VERY good abridged version of the deposition (with comments) here:
blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/ex-cathedra/the-annotated-bishop-brown-dep/
Sorry, my mistake. I thought the thread was about “Abuse Allegations Against Orange County Bishop Tod Brown”, not about what kind of snide assertions & innuendo a local “National Enquirer” wannabe prints.

Given OCWEEKLY’s venomous stance against Christians in general, & the Catholic Church in particular, I find little reason to grant them much credibility at all.

For example, OCWEEKLY also complains about Callahan’s concerns with the Church’s possible & inadvertent failing to comply with medical privacy laws. But I don’t see anywhere in the “Covenant with the Faithful” that states that the Church is willing to violate such laws. Can you help me out?

I also notice in another OCWEEKLY “offering”, they attempt to claim that Brown is “NAILED” as a molester, but at the same time, note how & why the Church decided the accusation was false.

Brown was accused ONCE in 34+ years, and he was accused by a guy who claims that he realized that he was abused 30 years after the fact, during psychological counseling.
ocweekly.com/news/news/nailed/27055/

Sorry, but not only is the burden of proof on the accuser, but making the accusation 30 years after you claim it happened (all because you didn’t “realize” it for three decades) doesn’t lend much credibility.

Sorry; unproven claims & illogical accusations fail to give me the vapors & call for a “fainting couch”.

Regardless of whether Brown is guilty of whatever abuses he’s accused of, I pray that God will help His Church & all of it’s servants. Nonetheless, while actual, proven abuses and wrongs committed by Church members & clergy sadden me, I don’t feel a need to commit spiritual suicide over it by confusing the members of the Church with the Church itself.

Chris
 
I don’t feel a need to commit spiritual suicide over it by confusing the members of the Church with the Church itself.

That’s a good thing to keep in mind, Chris.
Regardless of our opinions concerning Bishop Brown or any
other bishop. It was that kind of “confusing” that led
Luther, Calvin, and Knox and Zwingli right OUT of the true church.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
This is crazy with all these child petters in the priesthood. It’s so embarassing to be a Catholic today.

What doe one do? Is it obligatory to keep paying out to a Church that closes historic churches and schools that were bought on the tithes of immigrants and laborers to pay for these deviants (no one in particular)?

I haven’t given a penny to the Church in years aside from my daughters baptism and what was required for Catholic school and I sleep just fine. I wonder how much they’ll pay to make this go away? What another 300 million?
 
Lukewarm: The precepts of the Church require that we support Her materially. Perhaps if you can not bring yourself to financially support any one of the dioceses that have been involved in a sex abuse scandal you could instead donate to an orthodox, solid neighbouring diocese…or to a Church-run charity.
 
Remember, lukewarm,
that your local parish is NOT “the diocese” or “the archdiocese” as the case may be; it is your local parish, and I can tell you that most priests are godfearing hardworking souls and that local parishes are HURTING for lack of support of the parish by the laity
(and it started lonnnnng before the sex abuse scandal).

My parish has a wonderful, orthodox priest. DESPITE that,
the average weekly donation to the parish by each parishioner
is under a measly $3.00. Under $3.00 !! In a middle class to upper middle class parish !! Yes there are a few low income families, but one doesn’t expect a windfall from those who themselves are hurting financially.

If you have that “cover-up” problem in your diocese, simply do NOT support the programs of the diocese financially in the 2nd collection or in the (bad) bishop’s periodic appeals.
Please don’t punish your local parish, especially if you have a good and orthodox priest. The local parishes are hurting.

God bless,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
All parishes in the Diocese of Orange MUST pay 10% of EVERYTHING that goes into the Sunday Collection to Bishop Brown. He gets 10% of all Sunday donations PLUS a REQUIRED PSA at each parish (62 parishes in D of O). PSA per parish runs from small parishes ($36,000 per year) to large parishes ($200,000 plus). And most of his priests do NOT live on parish grounds - they’ve got their own private homes in gated and guarded communities.

The people in D of Orange have to put their donations in a special envelope or write specifically what the check is to be used for (for electric bill, for a new roof, for new carpeting, etc) if they don’t want to keep paying B. Brown and his high priced lawyers and PR firms.

And again, Jaypeeto, you don’t live in Orange County CA. Be VERY GRATEFUL!!! and KEEP PRAYING for us.

MOST of our priests are anti Catholic teaching. Here are just 3 of them caught on tape (B. Brown included)
see:
youtube.com/watch?v=fHi_VZLtcQ8
and
youtube.com/watch?v=Fv_y47x9kSk
and
youtube.com/watch?v=j0yfdbxr7qM
 
All parishes in the Diocese of Orange MUST pay 10% of EVERYTHING that goes into the Sunday Collection to Bishop Brown. He gets 10% of all Sunday donations PLUS a REQUIRED PSA at each parish (62 parishes in D of O). PSA per parish runs from small parishes ($36,000 per year) to large parishes ($200,000 plus).
Yeah, Bishop Brown is really “The Godfather” in disguise - stealing money from churches for his personal “slush fund”!!! :eek:

Oh, brother.

The truth is that all parishes in the WORLD are asked to give a tithe (10%) to the diocesan office (which are in turn asked to give a tithe (10%), going all the way to support Rome.)

So what? To heck with the diocese? To heck with Rome? To heck with the Biblical teaching that we are to materially support the church & help the needy (poor, hungry, homeless, jailed, etc.)?

The PSA (“Pastoral Services Appeal”) is a once a year request (not “REQUIREMENT”) for donations beyond the 10% “tithe” - which come voluntarily from parishioners. All donations can be legally only used to pay for diocese level programs & ministries (like Religious Ed, Catholic Charities of OC, Catholic Deaf Community, Pastoral & Diaconate ministries, Seminarian education, & others.) Anything more is “rebated” back to the parishes to be used for their own ministries, charities & building programs.

According to publicly available documents, the grand total of all PSA donations last year was about $11.7 million, half of which ($5.3 million) was given back to the parishes themselves.

In case OCWEEKLY “forgot” :rolleyes: to provide links to the documents, here they are: rcbo.org/offices/images/pdfs/PSAJan.FinalReport1-10-2007.pdf and rcbo.org/financials/Financial_Audit_FY06.pdf
The people in D of Orange have to put their donations in a special envelope or write specifically what the check is to be used for (for electric bill, for a new roof, for new carpeting, etc) if they don’t want to keep paying B. Brown and his high priced lawyers and PR firms.
Again, so what? Every church I’ve ever seen asks people to note what (if anything) they specifically want their donation to be used for. Every church I’ve ever seen asks for people to somehow give their name and address with their donation, so the church can send them a receipt at the end of the year, for tax deduction purposes.

Or are you upset that people might have to do 2 seconds worth of work to keep their money from going to the Bishop’s supposed “slush fund”?
And most of his priests do NOT live on parish grounds - they’ve got their own private homes in gated and guarded communities.
Wanna back that claim up with a list of all the priests in the diocese and where they live?

Most priests in the diocese DO live on parish grounds.

Brown doesn’t, but then, he’s not assigned to a parish. Same with most of the priests who are assigned to the diocese instead of individual parishes.

Yes, Bishop Brown does have a very expensive property. Then again, he uses it to have people of all nationalities and leaderships who come to the diocese, stay there for respite. I’d agree that he could probably serve a better example if he didn’t live in such a wealthy area, but he shares what the laity has paid for to provide him – and no one has shown that he is somehow “suspect” for not living in a rectory.

I understand and agree that we should be concerned about liturgical abuses & teaching error, whether by priests or bishops.

I admire your zeal, but wouldn’t it be better served by identifying which are true violations before tearing our garments and gnashing our teeth, before we actually check out claims of “impropriety and abuse”.

Whatever is true, should be taken to the priest or bishop. If they refuse to listen, we “take it to the church”, by writing to the Archbishop and Vatican. If the one committing error still will not repent, then “let them be like tax collectors and gentiles”, and find another parish/diocese that is in communion with Rome.

We should all pray both for our clergy & each other.

Respectfully,

Chris
 
Hi Chris, I agree with some of what you say.

But a parish here in South Florida (I won’t name it for courtesy’s sake)) had a lovely, more than ample parish house for it’s two priests to live in.

The only source of the priest’s income was their small salary.

Yet, according to a parishioner of that church who is a lovely lady and good friend of mine, the two priests decided they didn’t like the parish digs. So they took parish funds and bought an ENORMOUS lakefront property in a gate-guarded community
and they now live together there.

That doesn’t smell right to me.
But at least the two priests in question do not teach heresy.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
Hi Chris, I agree with some of what you say.

But a parish here in South Florida (I won’t name it for courtesy’s sake)) had a lovely, more than ample parish house for it’s two priests to live in.

The only source of the priest’s income was their small salary.

Yet, according to a parishioner of that church who is a lovely lady and good friend of mine, the two priests decided they didn’t like the parish digs. So they took parish funds and bought an ENORMOUS lakefront property in a gate-guarded community
and they now live together there.

That doesn’t smell right to me.
But at least the two priests in question do not teach heresy.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
I agree, that IF the second- or third-hand information you got was correct, (or possibly even if it was) then it doesn’t smell right.

Has anyone gone to the priests and asked them if they didn’t go to a bit of an extreme?

I don’t mean to sound like I’m excusing where Brown lives; I don’t know the whole situation. But then, that’s the point. It is difficult at best to claim that because a clergyman lives in a place that is more expensive or extravagant than might be necessary, they are somehow corrupt.

Does the property Brown (or these priests) lives in belong to him personally or the diocese? Is he using it to simply bathe in luxury, or is it being used somehow to serve & glorify God?

I believe that all clergy should live relatively simply to set a good example of how to follow the commands to support the Church and help the needy, but how simply should that be? Like Mother Theresa? Like Joe-Sixpack? Like the President? Besides, living simply is not an admirable end in itself. All things can serve the Lord - from the simple to the extreme. Martha had a big enough house to hold a feast for the disciples. Mary supported Jesus out of her own resources. Jesus said to some rich folks to give away everything they own, but had no problem with others. Why?

Again, I’m not attempting to excuse needless waste or selfish activities in luxury, but there are questions that we should all know before shouting “Ahhh, Corruption!!!”

Chris
 
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