Abuse confession

[NFrancis]

From Wikipedia: “On 12 April 2011 it was announced that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith ruled that he left Belgium and is undergoing a period of treatment. The statement said that “evidently he is not allowed any public exercise of priestly and episcopal ministry. The psychological treatment was provided by the Congregation for the additional information useful for diagnostic and prognostic continue and complete the process in view of the final decision, which remains the responsibility of the congregation itself, and to be approved by the Holy Father. This decision will of course take into account the different aspects of the issue, beginning with the suffering of the victims and the needs of justice. The process is still ongoing and therefore the decision taken so far by the Congregation is interlocutor and not final””

So he is no longer allowed to exercise his ministry. When it talks about the “decision,” I am just guessing that they are referring to a decision as to whether the bishop should be defrocked.

 

[Anna_Scott]

. . . . .A year after his resignation plunged Belgium’s Catholic Church into crisis, the former bishop of Bruges has provoked almost universal condemnation by admitting to new sex-abuse offences.

Roger Vangheluwe told Belgian television that he abused one nephew for 13 years and another for nearly a year - but he did not think he was a paedophile.
…

Read more: smh.com.au/world/abuse-confession-20110416-1diu6.html#ixzz1JhIUCRlT[/INDENT]

I’ve read all the comments on this thread, and I’m wondering how many of you were ever a victim of sexual abuse. I am a sexual assault survivor. I was not abused by anyone in any Church, but the abuse was extensive and unspeakable.

The healing and well being of the victim should be the main concern. Secrets only make things worse for the victim. Everyone is worrying about the money and who is to blame and what the parents did or didn’t do, or what this means for the Catholic Church. Meanwhile the victim or victims will spend a lifetime recovering from the abuse–and living with the nightmare.

I am 56 years old and my abuse ended about 50 years ago. I still have periods of time when the night terrors return and I go back into therapy for awhile. And I am one of the lucky ones. I didn’t commit suicide, become addicted to drugs/alcohol, or end up in prostitution, which is often the case.

For many of us, who are sexual assault survivors, every time we hear of another abuse; it causes us to relive our own abuse. My heart brakes for each victim. I understand their Hell on earth-----And I weep for their pain from the depths of my soul.

Anna

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

What a story! After all this time we’ve been friends, I didn’t know that about you, Anna. I’m only even more impressed with your strength after reading that. You’re quite an amazing person.

I think there have been mixed reactions to this abuse for the last decade. Some people have taken up the cause of the victims and have had a tough, no-tolerance policy desire, some have come out in a knee-jerk apologetics defense posture not wanting to accept this or pointing out statistics or comparing themselves to other Christian communions, and some have been in the middle. I think the Church dropped the ball on this for decades and was in serious denial in some quarters, in full-on cover up PR mode on the other. It’s disgusting…

I’m glad to see, thanks to the media and a loss of credibility and plenty of pressure from victims’ rights groups that the Church is finally cracking down hard on this stuff. It can never be hard enough for my taste!

I’ve read all the comments on this thread, and I’m wondering how many of you were ever a victim of sexual abuse. I am a sexual assault survivor. I was not abused by anyone in any Church, but the abuse was extensive and unspeakable.

The healing and well being of the victim should be the main concern. Secrets only make things worse for the victim. Everyone is worrying about the money and who is to blame and what the parents did or didn’t do, or what this means for the Catholic Church. Meanwhile the victim or victims will spend a lifetime recovering from the abuse–and living with the nightmare.

I am 56 years old and my abuse ended about 50 years ago. I still have periods of time when the night terrors return and I go back into therapy for awhile. And I am one of the lucky ones. I didn’t commit suicide, become addicted to drugs/alcohol, or end up in prostitution, which is often the case.

For many of us, who are sexual assault survivors, every time we hear of another abuse; it causes us to relive our own abuse. My heart brakes for each victim. I understand their Hell on earth-----And I weep for their pain from the depths of my soul.

Anna

 

[LtTony]

The Church has not endorsed the bishop’s remarks. I’m pointing out the fact that he is a Catholic bishop forever.

I understand one “can’t give back the gift,” but I have difficulty grasping how this affects how the church should respond.

From Wikipedia: “On 12 April 2011 it was announced that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith ruled that he left Belgium and is undergoing a period of treatment. The statement said that “evidently he is not allowed any public exercise of priestly and episcopal ministry. The psychological treatment was provided by the Congregation for the additional information useful for diagnostic and prognostic continue and complete the process in view of the final decision, which remains the responsibility of the congregation itself, and to be approved by the Holy Father. This decision will of course take into account the different aspects of the issue, beginning with the suffering of the victims and the needs of justice. The process is still ongoing and therefore the decision taken so far by the Congregation is interlocutor and not final””

So he is no longer allowed to exercise his ministry. When it talks about the “decision,” I am just guessing that they are referring to a decision as to whether the bishop should be defrocked.

Based on the bishop’s recent comments, that is something that likely should be on the table.

I’ve read all the comments on this thread, and I’m wondering how many of you were ever a victim of sexual abuse. I am a sexual assault survivor. I was not abused by anyone in any Church, but the abuse was extensive and unspeakable…

For many of us, who are sexual assault survivors, every time we hear of another abuse; it causes us to relive our own abuse. My heart brakes for each victim. I understand their Hell on earth-----And I weep for their pain from the depths of my soul.

Anna

I am saddened to hear of your pain, yet inspired by how you have managed to overcome it in many respects. I pray you will find peace.

I think there have been mixed reactions to this abuse for the last decade. Some people have taken up the cause of the victims and have had a tough, no-tolerance policy desire, some have come out in a knee-jerk apologetics defense posture not wanting to accept this or pointing out statistics or comparing themselves to other Christian communions, and some have been in the middle.

So right, imo. And put me in the middle.

 

[sojo]

I understand what you’re saying, sojo. I am not blamong the victim, however. I am wondering aloud on the motivation of some of the people that were supposed to protect the children.
I “Get it” that things were different back in the 50s, 60s and 70s. We should not judge people back then by today’s sensabilities.

Here’s what I think but haven’t said to critics of the church, peoplke that would likely say what you stated regarding parents, kids and sex decades ago:

If the news media, for example, is not going to question the parents behavior because of the prevailing attitudes of the day, why then be so critical of the church, which was often just following the advise of mental health experts and lawyers?

I agree with you Tony - the Church was operating under a different paradigm then, as well. This stuff is just fodder for the non-Catholics and the media, but I suppose if it wasn’t this, it would be something else. Jesus told us the Church would be attacked, so I don’t know why I’m constantly surprised.

More information I learned. Apparently, the Bishop admitted that the abuse continued until the child “forcefully” demand it stop at the age of 18. He then started on the victims younger brother but said it was just for a “short” time. Two years. Not so short in my book. And he also said that he “thought” (but wasn’t sure) that the victims enjoyed it. If the boy enjoyed it, why did he “forcefully” demand it be stopped when he turned 18? The bishop sounds seriously delusional.

The Church is having the Bishop studied by a psychologist before they proceed. That actually makes a lot of sense to me, but I’m sure the media and the public will have a heyday about that delay.

And lastly - the Bishop claims he knew it was wrong and regularly confessed it as a sin. But he doesn’t think it was sexual abuse or pedophile behavior. This from a highly educated man.

How the Church handles this is really going to be important to the Catholic AND non-Catholic world. And its all falling on the Pope during his busiest time of year.

 

[sojo]

Ann, I’m so sorry for your pain. You are so very right. The amount of damage done to the victims - for a lifetime - even with counseling and sometimes medication… its is mind boggling. I am praying our Holy Father does right by the victim. I do believe that he will do so this time around.

It would be bad enough to be those boys and to have gone through that, but then as adults to watch that interview on TV and see this guy acting like it was “no big thing” and smiling and shrugging. That must just kill them to see it.

I wonder also how they feel about Bill Donohue’s remarks about how some Church sexual assault victims were active participants and enjoyed the abuse. I know that made me want to throw up, so I can’t even fathom how an actual victim would feel. Seems Bill and the Bishop are on the same page. How many other people feel the same way?

 

[Tigg]

Disgusting… what went wrong in the church?? I blame the communist infiltration of the church.

Didn’'t you hear? That’s just a con-speer-a-see theory…but I believe it too, beyond a doubt.

From Wikipedia: "On 12 April 2011 it was announced that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith ruled that he left Belgium and is undergoing a period of treatment.

And most psychologists who attempt to help these offenders state there is no “treatment!” Even the abusers themselves agree!

 

[Anna_Scott]

What a story! After all this time we’ve been friends, I didn’t know that about you, Anna. I’m only even more impressed with your strength after reading that. You’re quite an amazing person.

I think there have been mixed reactions to this abuse for the last decade. Some people have taken up the cause of the victims and have had a tough, no-tolerance policy desire, some have come out in a knee-jerk apologetics defense posture not wanting to accept this or pointing out statistics or comparing themselves to other Christian communions, and some have been in the middle. I think the Church dropped the ball on this for decades and was in serious denial in some quarters, in full-on cover up PR mode on the other. It’s disgusting…

I’m glad to see, thanks to the media and a loss of credibility and plenty of pressure from victims’ rights groups that the Church is finally cracking down hard on this stuff. It can never be hard enough for my taste!

gurneyhalleck1,

I thought I told you about that. I don’t talk about it often, though sometimes I feel compelled to speak out.

This is a short article on Pedophilia and the definition according to Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders: minddisorders.com/Ob-Ps/Pedophilia.html

The article does point out that the pedophile may blame the children, which makes me sick.

“Some pedophiles offer rationalizations or excuses that enable them to avoid assuming responsibility for their actions. They may blame the children for being too attractive or sexually provocative. They may also maintain that they are “teaching” the child about “the facts of life” or “love”; this rationalization is frequently offered by pedophiles who have molested children related to them. All these rationalizations may be found in pornography with pedophilic themes.”

People ask why children don’t always tell anyone they are being abused. The pedophile manipulates children often threatening to kill them or even kill their families if they tell. In my case, the abuser was a neighbor in the country. He had animals on the farm. I remember him showing me where he buried one of his animals. He pointed to the grave and told me that’s where I would end up, if I told anyone. I was only 5 years old, and I believed him.

As the article I cited above points out: "The prognosis of successfully ending pedophilic habits among persons who practice pedophilia is not favorable. “Pedophiles have a high rate of recidivism; that is, they tend to repeat their acts often over time.”

This crime against children is so prevalent. Some statistics say 1 in 3 girls, and 1 in 4 or 5 boys will be sexually abused before age 18. Most perpetrators are friends, family members, or someone entrusted with children.

Where ever children are, you will find pedophiles. That is the tragic reality.

The other tragic reality is that so few pedophiles are actually prosecuted; and those who are prosecuted often receive less prison time than most financial crimes. There is something very wrong with our priorities.

Anna

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

After what has happened in Catholicism over the last decade or so (and more!) honestly with all the gay clergy in our area, I don’t know that I’d allow my kids to be altar boys. I just don’t trust the Church anymore with anything where they come in contact with kids. That might anger some but I’m just being truthful about how I feel.

gurneyhalleck1,

I thought I told you about that. I don’t talk about it often, though sometimes I feel compelled to speak out.

This is a short article on Pedophilia and the definition according to Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders: minddisorders.com/Ob-Ps/Pedophilia.html

The article does point out that the pedophile may blame the children, which makes me sick.

“Some pedophiles offer rationalizations or excuses that enable them to avoid assuming responsibility for their actions. They may blame the children for being too attractive or sexually provocative. They may also maintain that they are “teaching” the child about “the facts of life” or “love”; this rationalization is frequently offered by pedophiles who have molested children related to them. All these rationalizations may be found in pornography with pedophilic themes.”

People ask why children don’t always tell anyone they are being abused. The pedophile manipulates children often threatening to kill them or even kill their families if they tell. In my case, the abuser was a neighbor in the country. He had animals on the farm. I remember him showing me where he buried one of his animals. He pointed to the grave and told me that’s where I would end up, if I told anyone. I was only 5 years old, and I believed him.

As the article I cited above points out: "The prognosis of successfully ending pedophilic habits among persons who practice pedophilia is not favorable. “Pedophiles have a high rate of recidivism; that is, they tend to repeat their acts often over time.”

This crime against children is so prevalent. Some statistics say 1 in 3 girls, and 1 in 4 or 5 boys will be sexually abused before age 18. Most perpetrators are friends, family members, or someone entrusted with children.

Where ever children are, you will find pedophiles. That is the tragic reality.

The other tragic reality is that so few pedophiles are actually prosecuted; and those who are prosecuted often receive less prison time than most financial crimes. There is something very wrong with our priorities.

Anna

 

[1holycatholic]

I understand one “can’t give back the gift,” but I have difficulty grasping how this affects how the church should respond.

The Church can’t give sinners the boot. If that were the case the Church would have no members.

The Bishop has had his faculties removed. What else would you suggest the Church do?

 

[Anna_Scott]

. . . . .I am saddened to hear of your pain, yet inspired by how you have managed to overcome it in many respects. I pray you will find peace. . . . . .

I appreciate your kind words. I just wanted to point out that victims should be the priority and preventing this man from committing crimes against other children. Going to confession is all well and good; but that does not cure a pedophile.

Ann, I’m so sorry for your pain. You are so very right. The amount of damage done to the victims - for a lifetime - even with counseling and sometimes medication… its is mind boggling. I am praying our Holy Father does right by the victim. I do believe that he will do so this time around.

It would be bad enough to be those boys and to have gone through that, but then as adults to watch that interview on TV and see this guy acting like it was “no big thing” and smiling and shrugging. That must just kill them to see it.

I wonder also how they feel about Bill Donohue’s remarks about how some Church sexual assault victims were active participants and enjoyed the abuse. I know that made me want to throw up, so I can’t even fathom how an actual victim would feel. Seems Bill and the Bishop are on the same page. How many other people feel the same way?

Well, this makes me want to throw up too. This is a common rationalization of pedophiles as I noted in the article I post to gurneyhalleck1:

minddisorders.com/Ob-Ps/Pedophilia.html

“Some pedophiles offer rationalizations or excuses that enable them to avoid assuming responsibility for their actions. They may blame the children for being too attractive or sexually provocative. They may also maintain that they are “teaching” the child about “the facts of life” or “love”; this rationalization is frequently offered by pedophiles who have molested children related to them. All these rationalizations may be found in pornography with pedophilic themes.”

IMO, blaming the victims shows a lack of repentance and a continuation of the pedophilic mindset.

Anna

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I still think Bill Donohue’s nuts…

Ann, I’m so sorry for your pain. You are so very right. The amount of damage done to the victims - for a lifetime - even with counseling and sometimes medication… its is mind boggling. I am praying our Holy Father does right by the victim. I do believe that he will do so this time around.

It would be bad enough to be those boys and to have gone through that, but then as adults to watch that interview on TV and see this guy acting like it was “no big thing” and smiling and shrugging. That must just kill them to see it.

I wonder also how they feel about Bill Donohue’s remarks about how some Church sexual assault victims were active participants and enjoyed the abuse. I know that made me want to throw up, so I can’t even fathom how an actual victim would feel. Seems Bill and the Bishop are on the same page. How many other people feel the same way?

 

[Anna_Scott]

What a story! After all this time we’ve been friends, I didn’t know that about you, Anna. I’m only even more impressed with your strength after reading that. You’re quite an amazing person.

I think there have been mixed reactions to this abuse for the last decade. Some people have taken up the cause of the victims and have had a tough, no-tolerance policy desire, some have come out in a knee-jerk apologetics defense posture not wanting to accept this or pointing out statistics or comparing themselves to other Christian communions, and some have been in the middle. I think the Church dropped the ball on this for decades and was in serious denial in some quarters, in full-on cover up PR mode on the other. It’s disgusting…

I’m glad to see, thanks to the media and a loss of credibility and plenty of pressure from victims’ rights groups that the Church is finally cracking down hard on this stuff. It can never be hard enough for my taste!

New York Times article by Peter Hullermann: topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/h/peter_hullermann/index.html?scp=6&sq=Bill%20Donohue%20&st=cse. T

New York Times article by Lawrence C. Murphy: topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/m/lawrence_c_murphy/index.html?scp=4&sq=Bill%20Donohue%20&st=cse

There are responses to these articles on the same website.

 

[Anna_Scott]

I still think Bill Donohue’s nuts…

He’s not exactly helping the image of the Catholic Church.

Anna

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

There are some Catholic personalities that I just can’t stand. Bill Donohue and Al Kresta both make me nauseous!

He’s not exactly helping the image of the Catholic Church.

Anna

 

[1holycatholic]

There are some Catholic personalities that I just can’t stand. Bill Donohue and Al Kresta both make me nauseous!

Al Kresta?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Many Catholics will say “yeah, well the NY Times and media are out to get the Catholic Church so I don’t read it or buy into that” whereas I totally disagree. I thank the media for exposing this trash and putting the heat on the Church. The Church has been in denial for decades. In the 1960’s and 70’s the Church bought into that idea that pedophiles can be “rehabilitated.” Then later they just flat out covered it all up for the sake of PR and image. Ratziner (now pope) did a horrendous job of dealing with it. He is responsible for many of these guys staying put and continuing to molest according to the documentation. Pope John Paul II, whom I have always deeply admired, did an abysmal job as well. I think he was naive in not wanting to accept the idea that there could be so much evil from within…

The media has put on the heat and now things “seem” tougher. Only time will tell.

New York Times article by Peter Hullermann: topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/h/peter_hullermann/index.html?scp=6&sq=Bill%20Donohue%20&st=cse. T

New York Times article by Lawrence C. Murphy: topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/m/lawrence_c_murphy/index.html?scp=4&sq=Bill%20Donohue%20&st=cse

There are responses to these articles on the same website.

 

[Seamus_L]

The real tragedy here, other than the molestion itself, was that this criminal was never brought to justice and sent to prison.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Yes, Al Kresta. Can’t stand him. As a teacher, I’ve listened to him ridicule my profession and scapegoat us as manipulative evil-doers on many occasions. He is very full of himself and often rude and combative to guests. I think he’s too in love with himself. I can’t stand him. Just my opinion.

Al Kresta?

 

[LtTony]

And most psychologists who attempt to help these offenders state there is no “treatment!” Even the abusers themselves agree!

Yes, I was wondering if the Church is sending him to shrinks for pedophilia like they did in the 70s.
Then again, maybe it is just to baseline his general mental state before proceeding. I wish they would clarify it though, because a number of people will see it as the beginning of another round of mistakes and cover-ups.

The real tragedy here, other than the molestion itself, was that this criminal was never brought to justice and sent to prison.

Absolutely.