Abusing muhammad?

[sedonaman]

So God can only speak Arabic?

That’s not my point. Allah is not the God of the Bible. We know something about the God of the Bible; Muslims claim that Allah cannot be known – only his will can be known, according to them. Therefore, the two cannot be the same, and if there is no god but Allah, calling him “God” is equating him to the knowable God of the Bible, therefore it is blaspheming.

 

[sedonaman]

Actually it’s a perfect example–Christianity did nothing to help the status of those women, and their modern rights (as you say western nations have “progressed”) are only the benefit of more secular societies. Christianity didn’t elevate women–the societies had to leave Christianity for women to get their rights.

This is just so much bean dip that it is hardly worth responding to. The statement is ridiculous because Western societies have been [and still are] under the heavy influence of Christian ideas. And if they aren’t, when did they “leave Christianity”?

Christianity is where secular law gets the primary idea that all are equal before the law because they are equal before God. Islam teaches the opposite, that Muslims are “the best of peoples.” Consequently, inequality is rife even within Islamic societies. That’s why women have fewer rights under Islam than they do in the West.

 

[R_not]

This is just so much bean dip that it is hardly worth responding to. The statement is ridiculous because Western societies have been [and still are] under the heavy influence of Christian ideas. And if they aren’t, when did they “leave Christianity”?

Christianity is where secular law gets the primary idea that all are equal before the law because they are equal before God. Islam teaches the opposite, that Muslims are “the best of peoples.” Consequently, inequality is rife even within Islamic societies. That’s why women have fewer rights under Islam than they do in the West.

Yeah, I like that ‘bean dip’ analogy. Bean dip makes a lot of ‘hot air’ too - out the anal orifice. Ok, I won’t go any further with that description

BUT, here are some interesting things of the comparison between Jesus and mohammed.

JESUS: was not married. He healed women, forgave women, and encouraged women. The New Testament teaches that husbands should love their wives and not be harsh with them: Col. 3:19, Eph. 5:25, that men and women are equal in Christ - Gal 3:28, that they should be treated with respect - 1 Pet 3:7.

MUHAMMAD: commanded his male followers to beat their disobedient wives. He gave men the right to beat their wives who persistently disobeyed them.

 Sura 4:34  "As those you fear may be rebellious admonish, banish them to their couches, and beat them."

        The above verse was revealed in connection with a woman who complained to Muhammad that her husband slapped her on the face, which was still marked by the slap.  At first Muhammad said to her "Get even with him", but then added 'Wait until I think about it". Later on the above verse was revealed, and Muhammad added, 'We (He and the woman) wanted one thing, Allah wanted another.

The Hadith also said much about women:

        Muhammad said that women are generally so evil, that they will make up the majority of people in to hell.  Continuing with Bukhari,

Vol. 1, #301: "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women). They [women] asked, “Why is it so, O Allah’s Apostle?” He replied, “You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands.”

Muhammad also declared that women are less intelligent than men:

Bukhari, Volume 1, #301:

        "...Then he (Muhammad) passed by the women and said, "O women, give alms as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)."  they asked, "Why is it so O Allah's messenger?"  He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands.  I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you.  A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you."  The women asked, "O Allah's messenger, what is deficient in our intelligence and religion?"  He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?"  They replied in the affirmative.  He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence....."

COMMENT

        Christ's teachings show that women and men are equal in God's sight.  "There is neither male nor female in Christ".  Socially, Christ dealt with them according to the Father's mercy.

        Muhammad positioned females as in between slave and free.  Even today in Islamic countries women are regulated to being second class and controlled by the males.  This is because of where Muhammad placed them in his teachings.

 

[sedonaman]

A “hadith” is something that the Prophet Muhammad said, did, or was done in is presence that he approved of, which was reported by someone who witnessed it, who then narrated it to others.

The science of hadith is the study of authenticating those ahadith (plural), by checking their content and their chain of narration, to ensure that reports by liars or forgetful people are not transmitted the same as those reports by honest people.

That’s not “science” any more than checking any other book of fiction for verification that its events actually happened.

“Three things are absolutely essential for science, including modem sciences. One must understand that:

a. The world exists independent of us and is orderly.
b. We can understand it.
c. We should have no aversion to observing and working with nature (in particular to do experiments).

“One of the most quoted verses of the Bible in the Catholic Middle Ages was: ‘God has ordered all things in measure, number and weight.’ As for items “b” and “c” above, Catholicism has always emphasized the dignity of the human person, which it attributes especially to man’s ability to reason and understand starting from nature; its sacramental system manifests its belief in the necessity of the physical for man. The historians R.R. Palmer and Colton make the contrast with the culture of Islam, for example, that finally decided it was not okay to analyze the world in rational terms. Use of reason and its effectiveness in understanding this world were ultimately against the cult(ure), for according to Islam, Allah is sovereign in a sense that excludes secondary causes; according to that culture, Allah’s activity is completely inscrutable to man. …

‘If any historical generalization may be made safely, it may be safely said that any society that believes reason to threaten its foundations will suppress reason. [St.] Thomas’ doctrine … gave freedom to thinkers to go on thinking. Here Latin Christendom [Catholicism] may be contrasted with the Muslim world. It was ruled, in about the time of Thomas Aquinas, that… the Gate was closed. Arabic thought, so brilliant for several centuries, went into decline.’"

Dr. Anthony Rizzi, The Science Before Science, page 187.

I might add that any society that suppresses reason is one that knows it will fall if it ceases that suppression.

 

[hansa447]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

Muhammed (peace be upon him ) is respected by billion Muslims in the earth . We don’t expect that Christians will accept him as a Prophet . But condemn our beloved Prophet in nasty / offensive languages , provoking Muslims all the time by claming that he was a child molester , wife beater , killer , liar etc , stil your wonder if you are abusing him or not ?

If u browse Jewish forum , u will see how some participants claim Jesus (peace be upon him) used to bath in river with other men & that is a proof that he was a … ( too dirty to mention ) .

God knows your heart . So , pl. don’t clain that u don’t want to show disrespect to Muhammed (p) .

I know , some Christians will keep writing nasty posts - let them do it . God is watching us & He will be the just ruler on the final day.

To you be your Way, and to me mine. (holy Quran ; 109:6)

---

Dear Madam - Shalom/Peace

It is true that God is watching us, and it is to Him that all of us are to leave final judgment on motives. Meanwhile, we must struggle along with the limited knowledge and insight we have. However, it’s another thing to accuse others of abusing someone like Mohammad, and demanding death for such statements via fatwahs, when the accused have quoted from the ahadith and from the holy Quran. That amounts to denying those sources.

For instance, Muslims consider non-Muslims as unbelievers, of course. However, in a good numer of places in the Quran, one reads saying, in effect, “Slay the unbeliever!” These saying of the Prophet outnumber by far his earlier peaceful sayings and carry more weight. So in Muslim countries, following Sharia law, non-believers are first invited to become Muslim; if they accept, all is well and good. If not, they must pay the jyzra tax, and accept any humiliation without complaint. If they protest, they can be (and are) punished. If they refuse, they must leave the area or face persecution and/or possible death.

All of this is taught in mosques whose imams are faithful to the Quran, and has been documented in the historical record. To speak this truth is to respect it. To accuse those who speak it as being abusers of the Prophet, is to disrespect the Prophet, because his sayings are enshrined in the Quran, and expanded in the ahadith. To point out that he commanded unbelievers to be slain is to speak the truth, and is not an abuse of Mohammad nor of Islam. To claim that such speaking is an abuse not to be tolerated amounts to saying that the Prophet did not say such things. Such a claim would be an untruth, since in the Quran we find this and many other like things that the Prophet DID say.

And to cite these other things is not a condemnation, either. The Prophet did say them, and his followers accept them. Those who do not follow Mohammad do not accept them, and say so. For that, these have been condemned to death by Islam more than once. [eg., Rashid]. So Islam also disrespects unbelievers and critics.

So please do not imitate those whom you accuse of writing nasty notes, and judge them as intending to be disrespectful. They do not have the background of Islam as you do, just as you do not have the extended knowledge of Christianity that they do.

A long reply, this; I hope it helps.

 

[ahollars]

I will end my response on this thread here.

Sister Amy, you asked for proof. Well, it depends on what you will accept as proof, but the proof is in the relics preserved to this day. Earlier, someone mentioned Juan Diego. What about his tunic that is still intact and on display inside the church in Guadalupe, Mexico? It should have decayed centuries ago, yet still survives without preservation. Scientists have analyzed it, only to find that the shade of blue on the image is undetectable by computer (a 1/257 chance, if not more). That’s only the beginning. The Discovery Channel has recently re-documented the Shroud of Turin and even they, who have nothing to benefit from it, have acknowledged that the carbon dating test was wrong, and found the proof. Padre Pio’s stigmata, which was constantly photographed and examined by doctors during his life, completely healed the day before he died, and there is no scar. That is scientifically impossible for a man who “did that to himself”. His body has not decayed and has not been embalmed in any way, and he is not alone.

These things I can see with my own eyes, and would not exist without God’s will overriding the laws of nature. You mention Mohammad having miracles attributed to him. I’m sure they are profound, but are there signs in today’s Muslim world that compare to these? I haven’t heard anyone claiming any, not even in Arabic media, and yes, that flag you have at the bottom of your posts, I lived there for a year (Sept 2000 - Aug 2001).

There. I’ve explained my conviction. Quoting writings doesn’t seem to be working here for any of us. Catholicism is not restricted to writings, unlike Protestantism. If Islam is not restricted to the Koran and hadiths, then what else is there?

For the record, I loved it in Kuwait!!!

 

[sedonaman]

Sister Amy, you asked for proof. Well, it depends on what you will accept as proof, …

It has to be an Islamic foundational text.

 

[morning_star777]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

Women in Islam Versus Women in the Judaeo-Christian Tradition

The Myth and The Reality

By: Sherif Abdel Azim, Ph.D.- Queens University, Kingston, Ontario, Canada

islamicity.com/mosque/w_islam/

Islamic links are not authentic .

 

[R_not]

Here is how sharia laws deal with women who are gang raped. You see, all those ‘witnesses’ didn’t want to witness for her - but decided to join the rapist! So, she will be lashed.

And all of this due to the fact those rapists made her pregnant - sharia law - or the law of their god - has deemed that she committed adultry.

This is how men treat women in islam.

Of course, sister amy won’t read this article because it goes against her world view of islam. Once sister amy said she wanted to move to the cat litter box called Saudi Arabia.

The Saudi Arabian legal system practices a strict form of medieval law. Women have very few rights and are not even allowed to drive.
They are also banned from going out in public in the company of men other than male relatives.

the above quote doesn’t even have it correct this is sharia law. The law that is based on their god allah/mohammed. the law that they allowed in their country - the law that sanctions more human rights violations in this world.

And my question is why do muslim women in our country not try to help the women in islam that suffer so much? Instead they spend their time defending the indefensible. They better watch out because they might get what they ask for. Then ‘lala’ land will disappear for good.

 

[Jay53]

I’ve never tried to impress anyone with my knowledge of Christianity. Islam doesn’t need to prove anything about Christianity to be valid--that’s what’s so beautiful about it.

Yes it does - Islam has to prove Christianity is false in order to be valid. Since Christianity existed before Muhammad, Muhammad has to say Jesus did not die on the cross, was not resurrected and the Bible has been corrupted. Without these assertions by Muhammad, Christianity stands. It was revealed through Jesus.
Muhammad is the one changing Jesus’ message through the Quran.

But your co-posters here can’t seem to validate Christianity without attacking Islam.

What would you like validated about Christianity without attacking Islam?

 

[Sister_Amy]

See, that is what I am talking about. You don`t believe in history, you only belive the words that were spoken by Mohammed. Sorry sister, but he was no prophet.

I’m willing to risk not just my life in this world but my life in the Hereafter on the fact that he was.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Your question is irrelevant as majorirty of politicians do not base their policy strictly on Christianity. Well, politicians are just polticians.

Do you think Muslim politicians are different from that? Do you think they base their policy strictly on Islam?

Unless you miss the hadith I posted a few posts back.

I must have.

You said so in Afghanistan. What about Pakistan, Iran and Saudi Arabia? Are they fully perfect Shariah countries? I know, I think I’ve asked you this one time. Well, it could be forgotten by now, but are they Shariah countries? I don’t know, all that I was saying I was only taking them from what you said.

Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are two of the most corrupt governments on the planet. There is more Islamic justice in the USA than in those two nations combined! They are not Shari’ah countries (and neither is Iran.)

Sister Amy, this forum is full of disclosure of bad fruits of Mohammad and Islam, and that’s the reason for this thread was started, because Muslim posters (not you I think) are so insane with the ‘bad fruits’ that we brought up. I don’t think that’s subjective because lots of examples have been quoted.

I didn’t start the thread. When you bring up “bad fruits” I think it’s typically examples of modern-day “Muslims,” not from Muhammad. Of course it’s my view that there are no “bad fruits” in the life of Muhammad.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Where does this say anything about treason?

The Apostasy being referred to is treason–that’s why it’s not enough just to quote bits and pieces, you need to look at the bigger picture.

And I asked in the other thread - how would Muslims feel if the Catechism of the Catholic Church stated that non-Christians should be killed and anyone who leaves Christianity should be killed if they don’t repent within 3 days? And then acted on this?

I also wanted to know why God’s mercy is only available for 3 days?

Where do you come up with three days anyway? I thought I heard that the Catholic Church burned people at the stake for being “heretics.”

Oh, I see, it’s a giant conspiracy - it’s easier to believe that Satan duped thousands of people in numerous locations and all these people made all this stuff up vs. Satan deceived one man who then led many people astray. Oh OK. That makes soooo much more sense. You’ve convinced me!

I believe the miracle that I can see, how about that? You believe the ones you’ve only heard about.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Sorry, I forgot to post this earlier for you. My reference to the “right” time was with regard to #5

It doesn’t say the prayer is “void,” does it?

A muslim is supposed to pray five times a day–those times are a little specific. This is the ritual prayer, mind you.

Other prayers a person can offer whenever they want.

 

[R_not]

I’m willing to risk not just my life in this world but my life in the Hereafter on the fact that he was.

That is sad.

You pick a murderer, an enslaver, a liar, a guy beset by his own personal demons, a guy who didn’t respect women, etc over Jesus who said you are equal in Christ.

JESUS: was not married. He healed women, forgave women, and encouraged women. The New Testament teaches that husbands should love their wives and not be harsh with them: Col. 3:19, Eph. 5:25, that men and women are equal in Christ - Gal 3:28, that they should be treated with respect - 1 Pet 3:7.

this is how mohammed felt about women:

Bukhari Vol. 1, #28: "The Prophet said, “I was shown the Hell-fire and the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful.” It was asked, “Do they disbelieve in Allah?” (or are they ungrateful to Allah?), he replied, “They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good done to them…”

He also tells you that you are predestined, that you should go and worship a black stone because it will speak for you at Judgement Day - how do you know it will bypass predestination?!?! And how many muslim women have given their children happily thinking that they will be named as one of the saved. How do they know that will bypass predestination?

Too many holes in its theology, too much hatred and too much chaos is in islam.

 

[Booklover]

I’m willing to risk not just my life in this world but my life in the Hereafter on the fact that he was.

You put that much faith on the words of a man who approved of lying? Wow!

Vickie

 

[Sister_Amy]

A couple wackos on blogs? I think not. I’ll be happy to find more for you if you really need me to.
The second source I quoted is from Muslims. Unless you consider them wackos too? Here is their statement of purpose:

Then here is what I quoted before:

Are you going to contend that these people have misinterpreted the Quran too?

And you quoting the verse from the Quran means nothing with regard to this because that verse says there is no compulsion in religion. I have no doubt that Muslims don’t expect to convert everyone to Islam. They do, however, intend to TRY to “take over the world” and make everyone subject to Islam and Islamic/Sharia law. How is your definition of “take over the world” different?

Yawn.

Do you think all sites which quote the Bible and are made by Christians are authoritative?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Right, because believing the Holy Books that gave Muhammed his inspiration and the people of the time is just rediculous. They’re obviously liars. Whereas its completely absurd that a sinful man who came centuries later would lie…

Just because he says so? Sorry not good enough. It would help if he had actually at least led a good, or inspiring life.

 

[Sister_Amy]

**Brainwashing! **

Vickie

You’ve figured it out, now, haven’t you!

 

[Sister_Amy]

We noticed you are having that trouble. The problem you are having is that if Christ actually was crucified, Islam falls apart [as though it’s not already a hodge-podge of nonsensical parts as it is]. If Christianity is true, it easily accounts for the rise of Islam. Whereas, Islam cannot explain Christianity.

Why should Islam have to explain Christianity? That doesn’t even make sense.

You have the problem though of not being able to prove that Christ was actually crucified–even when faced with such a simple retort that it only seemed like he was crucified. Too bad for you. For 1400+ years Christians have tried to counter Islam and yet they’ve failed.