Abusing muhammad?

[nosadl]

You have no real information about Muhammad. Muhammad never slept at night without distributing all to the needy. When he died there was no fortune (wealth, not a penny) in his house which could be distributed as inheritance.

You cannot bring any good example of any person better than Muhammad. Even Jesus taught the same things. But you are blind (blank) about Muhammad.

I have read enough about Muhammad (from Muslim sources) to know that he is NOT a good example. If you think making war, instructing assasinations marrying a 6 year old and sleeping with her when she is 9, breaking oaths, accumulating wives, ordering the stoning of sinners, marrying his adopted son;s wife, and yes, accumulating booty (for a portion of the war booty was reserved for him) are the traits of a good man, then there is somthing seriously wrong with the thought process which leads you to that conclusion. Jesus praticed what he preached. Muhammad could not preach coherently nor consistently and could not practice the good in christianity. hence the invention of his own revelations.

Bro, blank out your mind of everything you know opr were taught about Muhammad and Islam. Start reading again from neutral sources. I do not think you will come to the same conclusions or beliefs.

The internet has made so much previously obscure knowledge about Islam and Muhammad accessible. There can be no hiding from the truth. To veil your brain and ridicule the facts (from Muslim sources) as lies, is irrational. I know many in my non-islamic state, who have investigated and read and have converted out of islam. Its a matter of time before Muslim seekers of truth everywhere do so too. (that is if Islam does not kill them before that). You yourself will probably convert out too because you have been challenged too many times by posters here and you know too much. The truth shall set you free.

will continue to pray for you.

 

[Reuben_J]

I have read enough about Muhammad (from Muslim sources) to know that he is NOT a good example.

A simple test to know whether you are right or not is to use the Ten Commandments as a benchmark to measure his (Mohammad) righteousness and to know how much he scored. And remembering that God who is forgiving and merciful does not compromise on sin nor He justifies sin.

 

[planten]

I obviously would not agree with “bribing” anyone to change to any religion, including Christianity. One’s faith should be practiced for love of God and if someone changes their religion it should be because they believe in the tenets of that faith.

That is a good belief and a good reply. I honor your thoughts.

 

[planten]

Jay53, that’s the muslims latest rave since so many African muslims are converting - 16000 a day. They say it’s because of food.

I’m sure there’s a group of imam’s somewhere coming up with a list of things to throw at us. As each one gets debunked, out comes the next.

My post did not mention any African country. Of course such things may be in practice by the christians now in African countries. But i was telling about the old time practice of the church people in India in mid nineteen century.

 

[Jay53]

That is a good belief and a good reply. I honor your thoughts.

Thank you, planten.
Even though I don’t agree with many of your beliefs/ideas related to Islam, you actually seem to be a very peaceful person. (Although I suspect that many other Muslims would not call you a “true” Muslim or would call you a “pseudo-Muslim”. )

May God bless you and your family.

 

[Jay53]

I hope the answer will be in Affirmative (+) from Sis Amy.

I hope so too. We’ll have to wait until she comes back online to see.

 

[chrisse]

My post did not mention any African country. Of course such things may be in practice by the christians now in African countries. But i was telling about the old time practice of the church people in India in mid nineteen century.

Same principle, different country/time, that’s all. This is the rant we are now getting from muslims trying to defend against muslims who convert to Christianity.

Planten, I’ve been listening to muslim’s “defence” for a while now. I’ve seen the pattern. The majority come forth with the one argument, then it fades away, then they come forth with another, and so it goes. Same with the Bible, they come running in with the one argument, it gets debunked, back they come en masse with another.

 

[jakasaki]

No one is abusing mohamad.

Since mohamad the the koran was concieved, the only person islam is really offending is the historical and Biblical evidence of Jesus by trying to replace him with the false prophet/messenger.

All muslims say they love Jesus and all prophets equally, but muslima don’t freak out and kill people, riot, protest, burn down embasies, burn flags and effigies and commit all sort of chaos when someone talks badly about Jesus.

No muslim will come to the aid of a Christian ( in the name of Jesus Christ, islams prophet ) living in the middle east when they are being harrased or even killed.

One of mohamads biggest lies was telling people that Jesus didn’t actually die on the cross - he was replaced with a look-alike. I’ve read that islams sometimes claims it was a look-a-like or perhaps even Judas and that Christ just left and allah took Him up to the Heavens.

Muslims commit chaos, turn the world up side down and go on a killing spree when someone insults mohamad and islam, but they don’t do anything when someone insults Jesus.

I see a double standard and reminds me of taquiya… when it comes to islam and prophets, especially when it comes to Jesus Christ.

Perhaps satan got pis…ed… off 600 years ago (from mohamads time) when Jesus would not bow and follow satan during satans temptation of Christ. Perhaps… just perhaps this is satans revenge…

 

[R_not]

Jay53, that’s the muslims latest rave since so many African muslims are converting - 16000 a day. They say it’s because of food.

I’m sure there’s a group of imam’s somewhere coming up with a list of things to throw at us. As each one gets debunked, out comes the next.

We see how well muslims can count after catching muslims in their lies about how many died after they got their tails whipped, once again.

 

[sedonaman]

I see a double standard and reminds me of taquiya… when it comes to islam and prophets, especially when it comes to Jesus Christ.

There is no double standard. The standard is that it’s OK if it advances Islam. Period.

 

[planten]

Same principle, different country/time, that’s all. This is the rant we are now getting from muslims trying to defend against muslims who convert to Christianity.

Planten, I’ve been listening to muslim’s “defence” for a while now. I’ve seen the pattern. The majority come forth with the one argument, then it fades away, then they come forth with another, and so it goes. Same with the Bible, they come running in with the one argument, it gets debunked, back they come en masse with another.

**I hope you had got my message that if you are worried about being liberal to conversion then please be liberal to conversion from chrstianity to any other religion. Also agree that no religion should use bribe for getiing converts.

It was a simple suggestion and the only good answer was “Yes.” You diverted the matter to recent conversions in Africa. I reminded the old time conversions in India.

Nothing of our allegations has really been debunked. They have just been passed off as some very difficult matters.

We had the problem of Trinity. Then “Jesus is God. God is not Jesus.” Then “One in three, three in one.” Now I had heard from some one that Jesus was not a prophet of God.

How do you say that you have answered any of those things? Perhaps you can show where you have explained any of those things.

The matter of abusing Muhammad was very simple. But the Catholics have made it complicated by giving references from the books of Hadith. hadith is not so reliable. Even though it is more reliable than your bible, yet many Hadith are not authentic.

The Catholics try to use some Hadith. It is not necessary to do that. I feel that catholics do not even read our posts. That is why they do not reply. I may remind about the topic. It is not good to abuse any one or to say anything derogatory about some one on the basis of untrue news.**

 

[chrisse]

**I hope you had got my message that if you are worried about being liberal to conversion then please be liberal to conversion from chrstianity to any other religion. Also agree that no religion should use bribe for getiing converts.

It was a simple suggestion and the only good answer was “Yes.” You diverted the matter to recent conversions in Africa. I reminded the old time conversions in India.**
I didn’t see any proof that this was happening, past or present, with Christianity. It’s a given that bribery is a useless tool for conversion, only as good as long as the bribery continues.

**Nothing of our allegations has really been debunked. They have just been passed off as some very difficult matters.

Until such time as it is officially and authoriatively proclaimed “qur’an only”, we will remain with the accepted authentic tradition of the trilogy - qur’an, hadith and sunnah. Anything else, we would be running multiple discussions of beliefs on the many sects within Islam.

The qur’an and hadiths are hardly reliable. For a start, the original kufic script at the time of mohammet and his companions (in which the earliest manuscripts of the qur’an are written) were not Arabic. Then there was the little bit about the goat eating some pages. Then there was the form of transmission in itself. Remember, many of those closest to mohammet died in the spreading of Islam with the sword.

I am unable to speak for the “Catholics” on the board, I can only speak for myself. I do read the posts. I just disagree, and bring in authentic references to support my claim. It is you who does not like your authentic Islam - maybe it’s time you left.

What is untrue? She was beheaded. She was muslim. He is muslim. Beheadings are a popular form of killing apostates/non-muslims in Islam. There is a lot of ‘smiting at the necks’ in the qur’an, followed with Islam’s practice, historically and present.

 

[planten]

No one is abusing mohamad.

Since mohamad the the koran was concieved, the only person islam is really offending is the historical and Biblical evidence of Jesus by trying to replace him with the false prophet/messenger.

All muslims say they love Jesus and all prophets equally, but muslima don’t freak out and kill people, riot, protest, burn down embasies, burn flags and effigies and commit all sort of chaos when someone talks badly about Jesus.

No muslim will come to the aid of a Christian ( in the name of Jesus Christ, islams prophet ) living in the middle east when they are being harrased or even killed.

One of mohamads biggest lies was telling people that Jesus didn’t actually die on the cross - he was replaced with a look-alike. I’ve read that islams sometimes claims it was a look-a-like or perhaps even Judas and that Christ just left and allah took Him up to the Heavens.

Muslims should protect the christians nd their churches in Muslim countries. If they do not then they are guilty. But the christians should also behave themselves and not abuse any one by calling him a Liar and pedeophile etc. That is not any peaceful preaching.

You false statement that Muhammad told it was a look alike who was crucified. that is your lie. Muhammad never said that. Some foolish person tried to trick the Muslims with that idea. I ask you, do you believe that it was a look alike?

Muslims commit chaos, turn the world up side down and go on a killing spree when someone insults mohamad and islam, but they don’t do anything when someone insults Jesus.

I see a double standard and reminds me of taquiya… when it comes to islam and prophets, especially when it comes to Jesus Christ.

Your wandering ideas have no value. Talk from your bible. Please tell me what was Joseph the carpentar doing, not preaching (telling) any one that Jesus was not his son? Was Joseph the carpentar doing Taquiya?

Perhaps satan got pis…ed… off 600 years ago (from mohamads time) when Jesus would not bow and follow satan during satans temptation of Christ. Perhaps… just perhaps this is satans revenge…

It is your belief that Jesus was tempted by the Satan. Our Quran does not teach us that. It is a bad thing if one is tempted by the devil. Nevermind if Jesus did not fail. It is bad anyhow if the devil comes near Jesus or his mother. We do not accept that. But you can have it as a good thing for Jesus.

 

[anjoh66]

I claim that if islam had been revealed by God, He would never have allowed his prophet to marry a 9 year old girl.

Many say that it was the customs of that time. I am prepared to agree with that, but, as we all know, God is omnipotent and omniscience.

Islam claim itself to be universal and for all times to come.

It should have been very easy for God to look into the future and see that sexual relations with a 9 year old girl was going to be considered a great sin and very bad for future generations.

Isnt it logical that God in saying his final word must send someone pure and sinless who will stature a good example for men to follow?

Therefore this marriage with Aisha is the only proof we need to determine if the prophet was sent by God or not.

Muhammad didnt recieve any revelations that it was going to be counted as one of the biggest vices in the future, but that is not surprising, because there was no revelations from God.

Jesus gave us the means to judge whether something is true or not.

By their fruits ye shall know them.

 

[inJESUS]

Well Muhammad’s example of marrying a kid caused too many traumas for little kids in the Islamic world, so i agree that, even if it were a bedouin “norm”, it shouldn’t be followed by a “prophet” said to be “the” example to humanity.

Add to it his deceit and concessions made after being caught up in bed with his slave girl.

Add to it his marriage to the ex-wife of whom he considered like a son, and Allah supposedly agreeing on having desire for a married woman.

Add to it his teachings about temporary marriages that we end up having a girl on tv saying " i got married to 9 men within 13 months, isn’t it better that having a boyfriend"??? to which, we at home, replied, loudly " no madam, this is legalized prostitution". Of course the Sunni will tell you, this teaching was abrogated, which means they are agreeing that the man taught legalised prostitution in the name of God.

And the list goes on and on so we are not abusing Muhammad, his actions are and will always abuse him until people wake up and see the model to follow is surely not Muhammad.

 

[trdchubi]

If in anyway we are abusing muhammad, then let it be.
Its better to degrade this false prophet and reveal his false doctrines than let his followers wallow in the lies he has made 1400 years ago.

Its better to expose this man, the root cause of the lies than keep our silence and let his followers be in the dark.

We are our brothers keeper still, if we remain insensitive to this then we are no better than the High priest and Levite on Jesus’ Parable.

Maybe this verse really applies to this man:

“It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.” Luke 17:2

 

[anjoh66]

I´d like to post this link, it´s quite interessting, about St. John of Damascus, as we know he was a close contemporary of the advent of Islam.

This is how he, and he aught to know the sects that was around at his time, refuted Muhamad and Islam.

orthodoxinfo.com/general/stjohn_islam.aspx

 

[sedonaman]

I´d like to post this link, it´s quite interessting, about St. John of Damascus, as we know he was a close contemporary of the advent of Islam.

An excellent reference! Thank you!

If you read the arguments posted by the Muslims in this forum, you can recognize the same type of logic used by them in the time of St. John of Damascus

 

[anjoh66]

An excellent reference! Thank you!

If you read the arguments posted by the Muslims in this forum, you can recognize the same type of logic used by them in the time of St. John of Damascus

Yes.
Although the text in itself is not the best refutation of islam it nevertheless carries some interessting points.

Most of all, in my view, is when he says: that they ( the Jews) instead of catching Jesus they caught his shadow and crucified the shadow. It might have been a common view of muslims at that time that they caught and crucified the shadow of christ.

As we all know, nobody is holding that view today, and the muslims are not agree in the interpretation of the verse in the quran which says:
“They didnt kill him, nor crucify him, but it was made to appear to them so”

Today they hold other views as the human mind today can never accept such a ridiculous thing that it was the shadow that was crucified. Meanwhile it is very possible that they had that view some 1000 years ago.

 

[inJESUS]

Yes, Muslims do not even understand what is it that “appeared”, and fail to realize it’s a pure gnostic teaching that does NOT mean someone else was crucified.