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guanophore
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Both.
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happymommy
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You never cease being a child of God. Once you make that commitment to Christ, He is yours, but when you do sin it will make your relationship with Him more difficult. He wants us to apologize. Recognize our sin and make it right. Then our relationship will be clean again. He gave us free will so that we have to make our own choices. But he will always be there when we are ready to come back to the relationship with Him. Much like we feel with our own children. You don’t stop loving them or cease to be their parents when the do something wrong. But you do hold them accountable for their actions. Sometimes it strains the relationship, but you never stop being their parent.
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RobGentner
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**Hi Ruthie,I once asked someone who professed OSAS whether, if Billy Graham were to go on a one-day spree of robbery and murder after his long life spent bringing people to Christ, would he be saved?
The answer was that, in that case, he had never been saved to begin with.
You emphasized the wrong part. “they follow Me” is one of the conditions here. Granted that He will leave the ninety and nine to go after a stray - but His sheep have to follow Him. We hear His voice and follow, *then *we get to the the part you bolded.
One of the things I always disliked about the Chick tracts is the little statement you were supposed to sign at the end. something like “I accept Jesus Christ as my personal Savior.” This makes it sound like the “magic words” that unlock the gates of Heaven. And, in my searching days, I met several people who seemed to think that those words *were *some kind of formula for salvation. Where is that in the Bible?
I’m genuinely sorry that some non-Catholic Christians (NCCs) are insulted when we paint them with a broad brush. We’re not insulting them intentionally, though there may be a couple of exceptions to that…
That’s one of the problems we **all **have; with all the NCC sects out there, how do we know which ones believe what? And there are so many “pew sitters” in *every *church that sit there on Sundays without really knowing what their *own *church teaches, let alone what a different church does.
I spend a fair amount of time learning my own faith, and explaining that we Catholics don’t worship statues, the Saints, or Mary and that, yes, we are Christians, and that no, we don’t think we can earn our way to Heaven.** I really don’t have enough time left to study the doctrines of the 2000 or so NCC churches, not to mention what each of the non-denominational churches teach. **
In fact, that’s one reason I hang out in this forum - to learn something about other faiths.
God bless us all,
Ruthie
You underestimated. There are 33,000 denominations with 28,000 sub denominations having 1,375 different doctrines. That make 61,000 NCC who don’t even aggree with eachother. That is one way we know that the CC is the correct church. In 2,000 years we still basically have the same doctrines and follow the teachings of Christ. No NCC can say that because all of the other 60,999 NCC would disagree with them!
Rest of what you said was very well spoken, and accurate!
**God Bless
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marlo
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the answer goes back to the story of adam and eve, Its all about our choice, Now, If so called born again christians will say that Christ will prevent Christians from doing evil things as if there’s no more effort from our side, then why not do this in the first place during Adam and Eve’s era and prevent Satan to go near them. If Adam and Eve kept themselves to God, then we will not be discussing this now.
Its about free will, and free choice,
If we choose God, then God will keep us and nobody can take us away from Him
Its about free will, and free choice,
If we choose God, then God will keep us and nobody can take us away from Him
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M0nkey
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Well do you contracept? Do you masturbate? Do you slander? Do you commit drunkenness? Do you commit adultery? Do you say the Lord’s name in vain? If so, then you cannot be in Christ Jesus.
This is what the apostle meant by ‘in Christ Jesus.’
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justasking4
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Doesn’t the Catholic church teach that if you die in a state of mortal sin you will go to hell?
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racing59
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That’s what I was taught all the years I went to Catholic school.
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mercygate
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Being in as “state” of mortal sin presumes that you are unrepentant.
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justasking4
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Are you saying that when a person commits mortal sin that person is no longer “saved” so long as they are in that position?
Secondly, while in a mortal sin state does that person stop being a child of God?
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jmcrae
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No, but they are a child of God who has blown his inheritance and has nothing left to live on, spiritually. God still loves us even when we are in Hell - the fact that God loves us does not change the fact that breaking God’s law freely and knowingly causes us to lose our heavenly inheritance.
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mercygate
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If a person who has committed a mortal sin remains unrepentant, then he has deliberatedly forsaken Christ.
Some would take this as an indication that he was never a child of God, never saved, in the first place.
Of the many things Paul says cannot separate us from the love of God, sin is not listed. When he says that nothing can take us out of the hand of God, he does not say that we cannot jump out of our own free will.
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justasking4
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Christ took care of sin though. He paid the price in full for those who believe in Him for salvation. Secondly, is our salvation dependent on our own free will?
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mercygate
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Yes, our salvation IS dependent on our free will because it is dependent upon accepting the grace to remain in Christ. Can it be said that we “believe in Him for salvation” if we reject Him? We’re talking unrepentant sin here.
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justasking4
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If our salvation is dependent on our wills then we are doomed. Our wills are to weak to keep us “saved” and focused on Christ. What keeps us saved is the power of Christ and His work in our lives. The man that is unrepentant may be a man who does not have the Spirit of Christ in him and so is not convicted by His Spirit. That’s why the Scriptures describe such a man as dead in his trespasses and sins. Unrepentance is a sign of unbelief.
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jmcrae
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Absolutely, YES.
That’s why you have to make a decision for Christ. Whether by means of the Sacraments, or by means of an altar call, or by means of signing the back of a Four Spiritual Laws tract - we have to make an act of the will in order to enter into Christ’s Salvation.
Christ helps us, and gives us prevenient grace, but it is ultimately our own personal decision. One that we have to keep making every day when we wake up in the morning.
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guanophore
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Yes. God created us with free will. If we choose not to spend eternity with Him, He allows us another choice.
No, Catholics take a more mature attitude toward salvation. We do not consider that we have already attained,buy forgetting what lies behind, we strive toward that which lies ahead. You can’t “lose” what you have not yet attained. While we are on earth, we are working out our salvation. When a person commits mortal sin, he has decided not to work out his salvation, but to work iniquity in his members.
No, nothing can separate us from the love of God, or remove the seal He has placed upon our souls in baptism.
Yes, Jesus paid the price for everyone at the checkout. Some people refuse to get in the bag and go home with him, or having gotten into the bag, later get out before the groceries get to the fridge.
No. We are saved by grace, not our own will. It all depends upon God. He allows us to have a choice. We can accept the grace He provides, or not.
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justasking4
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How does committing adultery translate into meaning that person does not want to spend eternity with God?
Is there some kind of list somewhere of what these mortal sins are? I need to be clear what a mortal sin is. Do you have that list or do I need to ask someone else?
How do harmonize this with the teaching that if you die in a state of mortal sin you will go to hell?
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ron77nyc
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These are all very controversial subjects that arise on CAF. The best theological minds cannot reconcile God’s mercy with His judgement. For a long time I believed once saved always saved until a friend told me that he was warned by the Lord about a sin he was committing. He said the Lord told him if he didn’t stop he was going to lose his salvation. This is how God works. He warns us and is patient not wanting any to perish. When we hang up on Him he keeps calling us. Only He knows when it’s time to give up.“Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?” Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?" (Romans 6:1-2)
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guanophore
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I honestly cannot believe you would even ask this question. Is there some way, in your twisted mind that you could think that such an action represents love for God and neighbor? Have you forgotten that Jesus said “He who loves me keeps my commandments”? If a person has this little love for Him, why would such a one even consider spending a day with HIm, much less an eternity?
Yes, we call them the 10 commandments.
There are plenty of lists of mortal sin in your Bible. How can you ask this? YOu have posted them yourself before.
No, ja4, I don’t think you need clarity about this. You have already said that you don’t believe in them, so what difference does it make?I need to be clear what a mortal sin is. Do you have that list or do I need to ask someone else?
Are you assuming that the only people in hell are the ones that God does not love? Are you assuming that, just because He loves people, they will choose HIm. Does not the scripture say “for God so loved the world…”? Do you see everyone accepting His love?
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Pixie_Dust
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A person is choosing self-gratification over an opportunity to grow in holiness by not committing the sin of adultery.
For a sin to be mortal it must be a grave matter, and the person committing the sin must have full knowledge of the gravity of the matter and full consent of the will. There is no list that says “These are mortal sins” because even a grave sin committed under compulsion (person does not fully consent) or without full knowledge of the gravity of the sin lessens the culpability (guilt) for the sinner.Is there some kind of list somewhere of what these mortal sins are? I need to be clear what a mortal sin is. Do you have that list or do I need to ask someone else?
People don’t go to Hell because God doesn’t love them anymore.
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