Accepting Jesus as Personal Lord and Savior

[sharmin]

No, sharmin, Jesus came to free us from the bondage of sin, and He has. We now have a choice about whether or not we sin.

This is not true, unless you believe there is someone walking this Earth today who can go their entire life without sinning. I’d love to meet him or her! Seriously, if it’s possible, then I’m sure it happens. Surely there are devout people out there who want to avoid sin, and if Christ enabled us to be free from sin and live without sin, where are they?

See, it just doesn’t make sense to me. We are still all sinners. We try to do better, but we fail. We are not perfect creatures.

God does not set us up for failure. Mortal sin is deliberate, and willful. It does not just “happen”. We choose to turn our hearts against Him.

If this were the case, where is the perfect person who does not sin?

Scripture tells us …“for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”(—Romans 3:23) We all sin and have sinned. Notice sinned is a verb, an action. We all sin.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Guan, Do you actually believe in any Catholics believing in fornication, se’ances, new age and having no belief in Jesus at all? And an entire parish of them? :whacky: This is not meant to be ant–ron77nyc or disrespectful. But, I don’t believe a word of what he thinks he sees. I wouldn’t want to worship with those people whatever denomination they were.:nope: Catholics not believing in Jesus OK! And you got mad at JA4 when he lied?

ron77nyc:

Catholics have all strange beliefs: new age, reincarnation, fornication, séances and no belief in Jesus at all. Those are the Catholics I have met in my local parish, workplace and friends. This is not meant to be anti-Catholic or disrespectful. It is just what I see. So why would I want to worship with those people?

**
It looks like they didn’t accept Jesus as their personal lord and savior!**

 

[guanophore]

If I as a Catholic miss mass out of say laziness or misplaced priorities and I had a fatal accident before I get my act together, the consensus was universal that I bake in the lake.

What is “laziness”? Does this word describe the commited Christian? If so,then I would say that such a person missed Mass because their heart is not right with God.

“Misplaced priorities”? Jesus was clear that we cannot serve God, and mammon. If one, having put his hand to the plough looks back, then one is not worthy of the Kingdom. This is a reflection of an uncommited heart.

Mortal sin, that which separates is from the Life of God, does not happen by “accident”. It is a willful, deliberate, intentional act.

One Catholic here that I otherwise like quite a bit said he (or she) can go quite a long time before committing a mortal sin.

Do you think that God intended for those who are sanctified by the HS to go on sinning?

So that tells me that even for the most devout Catholics, your eternal destiny with the Lord, heaven or hell, is random.

if you think this, then you have a grave misunderstanding. You may not understand the nature of mortal sin, or you may not understand the nature of forgiveness. Either way, it is not “random”. Do you even know the qualities of a mortal sin?

And you all pick on Protestants for their eternal security while at the same time you have eternal insecurity.

I think a person who gives in to “laziness” and “misplaced priorities” endangers the immortal soul. I would hope that such a persons’ insecurity would lead them to repentance.

 

[sharmin]

I think a person who gives in to “laziness” and “misplaced priorities” endangers the immortal soul. I would hope that such a persons’ insecurity would lead them to repentance.

So a lazy person deserves eternal damnation? Do you really believe a merciful, loving God believes that? I can’t. Not the God I know and love. That’s why I’m starting to have real trouble with this idea. I don’t know…I need to look into it. The more I think about it, the more it doesn’t make sense.

 

[mercygate]

So a lazy person deserves eternal damnation? Do you really believe a merciful, loving God believes that? I can’t. Not the God I know and love. That’s why I’m starting to have real trouble with this idea. I don’t know…I need to look into it. The more I think about it, the more it doesn’t make sense.

Carry that train of thought out to its logical conclusion, and you will come to universalism. This is not an issue that divides Christians. Are you familiar with the Catholic definition of what constitutes a “sin unto death?” (I Jn 5:16)

 

[sharmin]

Carry that train of thought out to its logical conclusion, and you will come to universalism. This is not an issue that divides Christians. Are you familiar with the Catholic definition of what constitutes a “sin unto death?” (I Jn 5:16)

No, Universalism believes in moral relativism. I believe laziness is a sin. I believe that we do sin. I believe we have a sinful nature. However, BECAUSE God knows this, He sent His son to pay the price of our sins for us. Now, I also believe that we need to repent. I believe our faith bears fruits, and one of them is a repententant heart. My question is now, though, does the sacrament of reconcilition carry our only means of salvation? And do I believe the standpoint that God expects us to live perfectly, and furthermore, we are capable of it? That seems to be putting us on par with Christ, himself, and that bothers me a great deal.

 

[mercygate]

No, Universalism believes in moral relativism. I believe laziness is a sin. I believe that we do sin. I believe we have a sinful nature. However, BECAUSE God knows this, He sent His son to pay the price of our sins for us. Now, I also believe that we need to repent. I believe our faith bears fruits, and one of them is a repententant heart. My question is now, though, does the sacrament of reconcilition carry our only means of salvation? And do I believe the standpoint that God expects us to live perfectly, and furthermore, we are capable of it? That seems to be putting us on par with Christ, himself, and that bothers me a great deal.

Universalism may or may not be grounded in moral relativism. It comes in flavors. But it all comes down to the idea that a loving God would not consign one of his beloved creatures, however morally deformed, to everlasting damnation.

Christ tells us to “be perfect” but he does not EXPECT it – that’s why he gives us the Sacrament of Confession or Reconciliation.
Is confession the sole means of reconciliation? It is the sole ORDINARY means because that’s how Jesus set it up. God is not bound even by his own Sacraments, but THIS is the means we KNOW will bring us back home. Why on earth do people find it so DIFFICULT to reach out and avail themselves of this perfectly marvelous channel of grace?

 

[RobGentner]

HAPPY THANKSGIVINGS EVERYONE

;4465238]So a lazy person deserves eternal damnation?

YES! Turn your back on God and He will do the same to you!

Do you really believe a merciful, loving God believes that? I can’t. Not the God I know and love.

You don’r make God, maybe you don’t understand God? prayer and reading the Bible can help you learn about the real God, who commanded you to worship Him!

---

That’s why I’m starting to have real trouble with this idea. I don’t know…I need to look into it. The more I think about it, the more it doesn’t make sense.

**When God “doesn’t make sense”, sharmin be very careful! Who wouldn’t want you to listen to God? Who would say :" Oh, don’t pay anyattention, God loves you eat drink and be merry he is merciful. You are saved?" I mean the only one I can think of is Satan, He would then obtain your eternal soul because you disobeyed God and His commandments. How about you any ideas?/**quote]

 

[guanophore]

So a lazy person deserves eternal damnation? Do you really believe a merciful, loving God believes that? I can’t. Not the God I know and love. That’s why I’m starting to have real trouble with this idea. I don’t know…I need to look into it. The more I think about it, the more it doesn’t make sense.

We all deserve death, from the start. We are separated by God from sin. It is only God’s grace that saves us, and that by faith. Saving faith is faith that works. We have a fallen nature, inherited from Adam. This fallen nature pushes against our souls like a tide. We must continually swim against the pull of the world, the flesh, and the devil. God’s grace will save us, as long as were are willing to press on to that which lies ahead. The moment we stop striving toward that peace, “laziness” will result in us getting pulled out into the deep.

No, Universalism believes in moral relativism. I believe laziness is a sin. I believe that we do sin. I believe we have a sinful nature. However, BECAUSE God knows this, He sent His son to pay the price of our sins for us. Now, I also believe that we need to repent. I believe our faith bears fruits, and one of them is a repententant heart.

We are in agreement on these points. However, Jesus paid the price for the sins of the whole world. Yet, not all are saved. Yes,we need to repent, and have faith, and bear fruit. All these are actions that must be continual. If we choose at any point to not actively pursue repentance, faith, and the bearing of fruit, we can be reclaimed by the fallen nature, fall from grace, and the end therof is the way of death.

No, Universalism believes in moral relativism. I believe laziness is a sin. I believe that we do sin. I believe we have a sinful nature. However, BECAUSE God knows this, He sent His son to pay the price of our sins for us. Now, I also believe that we need to repent. I believe our faith bears fruits, and one of them is a repententant heart. My question is now, though, does the sacrament of reconcilition carry our only means of salvation? And do I believe the standpoint that God expects us to live perfectly, and furthermore, we are capable of it? That seems to be putting us on par with Christ, himself, and that bothers me a great deal.

No, Universalism believes in moral relativism. I believe laziness is a sin. I believe that we do sin. I believe we have a sinful nature. However, BECAUSE God knows this, He sent His son to pay the price of our sins for us. Now, I also believe that we need to repent. I believe our faith bears fruits, and one of them is a repententant heart. My question is now, though, does the sacrament of reconcilition carry our only means of salvation? And do I believe the standpoint that God expects us to live perfectly, and furthermore, we are capable of it? That seems to be putting us on par with Christ, himself, and that bothers me a great deal.

Does the sacrament of reconcilition carry our only means of salvation?

The only means of our salvation is by grace, through faith, in the finished work of Jesus on the cross. He has ordained that we access this grace through the sacrament of reconciliation. He is not bound by the sacrament. We are. God can save whoever He wants, however He wants. He has given us commandments to follow, and it is incumbent upon us to follow them.

And do I believe the standpoint that God expects us to live perfectly, and furthermore, we are capable of it? That seems to be putting us on par with Christ, himself, and that bothers me a great deal.

Of ourselves, of course, we are not capable, as all have fallen short. yet, by His grace it is possible to fuflill all that He has commanded.

Jesus has ordained that we should become partakers of His Divine nature, to be sealed and animated by His Holy Spirit, and to have His mind. We are made over from one glory into another. We are not now, or ever shall be, divine. Yet He is generous with His gifts, and we can enjoy participation in that which His sacrifice has gained for us.

 

[MelanieAnne]

HAPPY THANKSGIVINGS EVERYONE

;4465238]So a lazy person deserves eternal damnation?

YES! Turn your back on God and He will do the same to you!

Do you really believe a merciful, loving God believes that? I can’t. Not the God I know and love.

You don’r make God, maybe you don’t understand God? prayer and reading the Bible can help you learn about the real God, who commanded you to worship Him!

---

That’s why I’m starting to have real trouble with this idea. I don’t know…I need to look into it. The more I think about it, the more it doesn’t make sense.

**When God “doesn’t make sense”, sharmin be very careful! Who wouldn’t want you to listen to God? Who would say :" Oh, don’t pay anyattention, God loves you eat drink and be merry he is merciful. You are saved?" I mean the only one I can think of is Satan, He would then obtain your eternal soul because you disobeyed God and His commandments. How about you any ideas?/**quote]

I believe a lot of what you say except the part about God turning His back. He doesn’t turn His back on us, ever. But we can turn our back on Him. He is always ready to take us back. It is our own stubbornness and pride that holds us away.

At my first reconciliation, which I remember vividly because it was my first, I remember the priest saying that God is always calling us to holiness. I don’t know that I truly understood what was meant at the time and perhaps I still don’t. But I hope I understand now better than I did before.

But one thing sticks with me ~ the call of the Holy Spirit can be, well, in a word, incessant, at least until you finally listen. And then be sure to thank God you have been given the grace to even hear. Another thing I’ve learned is that when you receive that call, that message, no matter how crazy it sounds, just do it. It might be that you’re meant to give the next person you see a sandwich and it will turn out that the next person you see is hungry, but is too proud to tell you. So you just do it. You put the food out there, or whatever you’re called to do, and let life go on. Anytime you ignore that call, regret will surely follow.

We have all sorts of calls. Sometimes we need to pray more. Maybe we need to study more or go to church more or whatever it is. And then there are the things we’re called to do for others. These are all messages of the Holy Spirit, if they are urging us to do good, and we are wise to follow.

 

[sharmin]

Of ourselves, of course, we are not capable, as all have fallen short. yet, by His grace it is possible to fuflill all that He has commanded.

Who do you know who has fulfilled all that he has commanded? (Lived a sinnless life?)

 

[Fisher]

I was sure to qualify it as some denominations. And there are indeed some who believe you can live however you want as long as you acknowledge Jesus as the Savior. If you are not one of those kinds, then I say God bless you!

If someone trust Christ and has a relationship with him why would the think they could live any way the want? God hates sin all sin It pleased God to bruse his only Son for the sins of the whole world. When a person trust Christ they still have a flesh that wants what it wants, so we have Gods word to help us grow into what Gods wants them to be.
Gal 5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may **grow up into him **in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

2Pe 3:18** But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge** of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Psa 119:11 **Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. **

Psa 1:2 But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Deu 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find [him], **if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. **

 

[CWBetts]

MarcoPolo;4357738:

Catholics agree with this completely, but believe it entails a faith working through love and obedience, which some denominations limit to an intellectual assent of faith only./

QUOTE]

That is not true at all. As a Protestant I have never met any non-catholic Christian who believes what you just wrote. Your statement implies that we don’t care about works at all. You make it sound like it’s no big deal for us just as long as we say the words. That’s a horrible misconception. Faith for us is not a punch-line. It happens to be real to us, and works play a major role in our faith. We don’t sweep them under the rug and justify things with a mental assent.

Believe me. I used to be a member of a Baptist church that was only concerned about how many people “got saved” evry week. It didn’t matter if e never saw tham again…all that ws important was the “sinner’s prayer”. THey wew also a big fan of taking every “faith” scripture out of context, and completely denigrating the importance of the sacremants and other works.

 

[jmcrae]

reteeks21;4357768:

Believe me. I used to be a member of a Baptist church that was only concerned about how many people “got saved” evry week. It didn’t matter if e never saw tham again…all that ws important was the “sinner’s prayer”. THey wew also a big fan of taking every “faith” scripture out of context, and completely denigrating the importance of the sacremants and other works.

I used to know a group of Evangelical men who practiced the “notched Bible” method of evangelism, as well - they would accost people on the bus, and declare a soul to be “saved” if they bullied someone into signing a Four Spiritual Laws tract. I don’t think they ever saw those people again - they certainly never thought of inviting them to come to Church.

 

[sharmin]

If someone trust Christ and has a relationship with him why would the think they could live any way the want?

Well, everyone I know who truly loves the Lord hates their sin, and is repentent after they sin. But, do they try not to sin to avoid hell? Or do they do it to be pleasing to the Lord? If I try to be a good wife to my husband, is it because I’m afraid he will leave me if I am not? Or is my effort to be a good wife the fruit of my love for him? I believe it is the same with sin. Anyone who truly loves the Lord will want to do good. But because of our sinful nature, we cannot do so perfectly. If God had given us that capability, surely at least someone walking the earth has achieved it! Yet, I cannot find anyone…

Gal 5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may **grow up into him **in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

2Pe 3:18** But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge** of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Psa 119:11 **Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. **

Psa 1:2 But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Deu 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find [him], **if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. **

I love those verses, and I believe they support what I’m saying. God tells us what is and is not sin. He does not WANT us to sin, however, I thank Him every day that He has paid the price for my sin and covered my sins with His blood. Because of this, I want to spend the rest of my life living for him, and doing my best not to sin.

 

[sharmin]

CWBetts;4483545:

I used to know a group of Evangelical men who practiced the “notched Bible” method of evangelism, as well - they would accost people on the bus, and declare a soul to be “saved” if they bullied someone into signing a Four Spiritual Laws tract. I don’t think they ever saw those people again - they certainly never thought of inviting them to come to Church.

Oh my goodness! That’s crazy!!

 

[avenger]

reteeks21;4357768:

Believe me. I used to be a member of a Baptist church that was only concerned about how many people “got saved” evry week. It didn’t matter if e never saw tham again…all that ws important was the “sinner’s prayer”. THey wew also a big fan of taking every “faith” scripture out of context, and completely denigrating the importance of the sacremants and other works.

They SHOULD be concerned about how many are saved each week, that is, after all, the purpose of ministry. If only the Catholic church was so concerned about such as this, things that really matter…

 

[jmcrae]

They SHOULD be concerned about how many are saved each week, that is, after all, the purpose of ministry. If only the Catholic church was so concerned about such as this, things that really matter…

Well, the thing is, nobody is “saved” until they actually get to Heaven. Meanwhile, we are all hopefully at least somewhat on the right path, and moving in the right direction.

But the purpose of the Mass is not to “get people saved” - it’s for those who already know Jesus to encounter Him in the Eucharist.

 

[CWBetts]

CWBetts;4483545:

They SHOULD be concerned about how many are saved each week, that is, after all, the purpose of ministry. If only the Catholic church was so concerned about such as this, things that really matter…

The Roman Catholic Church IS concerned about souls, however, the Church has a true understanding that salvation is a process, not a single moment in time. Salvation is something we work towards, not pray once and continue living as we were. I can tell you there was no real change in me as I went to that churc, I simply got swept ip in the emotion of it all. I never had real understanding until I started llearning about Catholicism, the CHurch that encourages reason.

 

[sharmin]

Well, the thing is, nobody is “saved” until they actually get to Heaven. Meanwhile, we are all hopefully at least somewhat on the right path, and moving in the right direction.

But the purpose of the Mass is not to “get people saved” - it’s for those who already know Jesus to encounter Him in the Eucharist.

I do believe, though, that the Catholic Church should place MUCH MORE effort toward evangelization.