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TMC
Guest
I am saying that ridiculing is wrong, and that using one’s own understanding of another faith’s holy scripture to debate is inherently risky - particularly when one tries to use another faith’s scripture to assert what they believe. Many times I have had atheists try to tell me that I believe one or another ridiculous thing, because that it how they read the bible. We must be careful not to do the same to Muslims.
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MacBP
Guest
Given the quote from the Catechism in the earlier part of the thread, I suspect it all comes down to individual motivations. I do not think that God would condemn a person to Hell because he/she sincerely believed in their faith. If an individual were to believe (in any capacity) in the truth of the Church, and if that individual were to still reject the Catholic faith, that person’s salvation would likely be in serious jeopardy.
In a broader sense, I was taught that the only individual who we know to be in hell is Satan. By that logic it seems other faiths should be theoretically capable of entering heaven.
In a broader sense, I was taught that the only individual who we know to be in hell is Satan. By that logic it seems other faiths should be theoretically capable of entering heaven.
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TMC
Guest
I don’t think non-Muslims agree that the Koran was dictated to Muhammed by Gabriel. If they did, they would probably be Muslims.
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Bev17243
Guest
er…actually I agree that Muslims *think *that it was dictated to them by Angel Gabriel. Whether it was actually Angel Gabriel is a whole another matter. I’d say seems unlikely because “Angel Gabriel” appeared to Mohammed hundreds of years after Jesus and Apostles time and since teachings of Quran contradict the teachings of Jesus…
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TMC
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OK, so you agree that Christians and Muslims believe different things about the Koran. You said you thought that Muslims and non-Muslims believe the same about the Koran, I don’t see how that can be true.er…actually I agree that Muslims *think *that it was dictated to them by Angel Gabriel. Whether it was actually Angel Gabriel is a whole another matter. I’d say seems unlikely because “Angel Gabriel” appeared to Mohammed hundreds of years after Jesus and Apostles time and since teachings of Quran contradict the teachings of Jesus…
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Armyvet007
Guest
Well thank you for accusing me of using the teachings of my faith as some sort of cheap debate strategy IOT “win” an internet argument. I’m glad you assume I am such an immoral individual and hold my faith and relationship with God so cheaply that I would undertake such an action.
It is, after all, much easier to believe I’m immoral then to believe that I actually take to heart the teachings of the faith when it comes to respecting others. That I believe [as the Church teaches] the Truth of God can exist in other religions, that we can seperate the Truth from the error of these other religions. That we can use a respectful dialogue with those of other faiths to point out the Truths within their faith, point out the errors within their faith, and with that create a new understanding that will all them to return to Mother Church.
It is also much easier to believe that I only point out the errors in how others approach this matter [with disrespect, mockery, belittlement, selective examples] as another way to “win”. Apparently it is unfathomable that I would point out these errors in an attempt to correct others of my faith in what our faith teaches. Or that I would point out these errors and as an attempt to explain such worldly petty approaches do nothing but harm God and destroy our ability to create a meaningful dialogue with the other faiths.
So, keep assuming why I post what I post, keep reading into my posts that which allows you to stay in your comfort zone. Go ahead and continue following your current path ignoring the teachings of the Church. I will pray for you.
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Caldera
Guest
I think you went way overboard with your comparison in post #25 in order to make your point. But yes, only you know the true intent of your posts…
Btw, are you also anti-emoticons?
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Not_Sure_1
Guest
Then what is the point of converting Muslims or anyone else? They can get to heaven anyway? Saint Francis risked his life to convert the sultan from Islam to the True Faith, because he wanted him to be able to reach salvation. Saint Francis believed that the Sultan, a Muslim, needed the True Faith (Catholicism) in order to be saved, otherwise…
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ringil
Guest
You are COMPLETELY missing the point. We do not seek to convert others so that others may attain the Beautific Vision. We evangelize to share the Truth of Christ’s love and to help others worship God how He wishes to be worshiped. TO give them the fullness of life.
We don’t practice the faith to “get something” out of it. We serve God because we love Him and He is worthy of praise.
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kch86
Guest
Why should Muslims be converted? Because Islam is not an effective faith for salvation. It obscures and misleads the follower about the nature of God and to an extent preaches salvation through works, which may lead the follower to committing the sin of pride or despair. We are not like some Protestants who believe in salvation by theology or in “Once Saved Always Saved.” Pride and despair are mortal sins and invincible ignorance doesn’t help in this regard. Furthermore, Islam provides no sacraments and gives inadequate direction. Not least, it teaches falsehoods about the nature of Jesus Christ.
But God Himself is not limited in whom He chooses to save and how He chooses to save them, and may through His generosity and mercifulness save some of those Muslims who are particularly receptive to His grace and His workings in their conscience, and who, despite the deceptions of their faith, sought not to offend Him and did not become proud, and whom He deems to be invincibly ignorant of their errors.
Islam contains a lot of truth about God but on its own it is insufficient for salvation. It requires something extraordinary for a follower of this faith to be saved. Something so extraordinary that only God can do it.
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TMC
Guest
My understanding is that, just as different Christians interpret the bible differently, different Muslims also interpret the Koran differently. There are, after all, several different Muslims sects, and each believes something different from the others.
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Bev17243
Guest
basic teachings of Quran is the same. There are differences with Shiite or Shia(for example, one believes in m’uta or whatever its called, marriage) the other one doesn’t) and of course, their issues of who was the true descendants of Mohammed(which they still haven’t settled after centuries of warfare). But majority of Quran, its most important priciples, are followed by every Muslim
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Marocchino
Guest
A Muslim who is invincibly ignorant of the Catholic faith and who leads a life of faith, hope, and charity may have an implicit desire for baptism. Baptism, or the desire for it (explicit or implicit), is the only way to obtain eternal life. Any person in heaven, even if she or he was ignorant of Christ and His Church in this life, is a Catholic because they would have faced Christ in judgement and come to know that He is God.
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A_Gift
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It is real simple if one believes the Bible. Jesus said I am the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father ((In Other Words) to heaven) but through Me. He, Jesus, did not leave any room for discussion as to who He is; He is fully God and fully man. So anyone who denies the Son of God as God has a different Jesus and therefore will not be in heaven according to God Almighty.
The answer to the question is quite simple. Does one believe Jesus is the Christ, the God-man and not a created being or just a good man or prophet or any other patronization or do they believe who He claimed to be, which is God in the flesh and that is your answer from God?
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Eric_Hyom
Guest
How can we make a judgement on a billion Muslims who have lived and died, Jesus will judge them one at a time. We do not have the right to make such judgements.
Blessings
Eric
Blessings
Eric
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