According to Trent, how was Abraham baptized?

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According to the Council of Trent, a brief description of Justification is as follows:

**In which words is given a brief description of the justification of the sinner, as being a translation from that state in which man is born a child of the first Adam, to the state of grace and of the adoption of the sons of God through the second Adam, Jesus Christ, our Savior.

This translation however cannot, since promulgation of the Gospel, be effected except through the laver of regeneration or its desire, as it is written:

Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.[18] **

We see that the Council confirmed that water baptism (the sacrament of regeneration) is required for one to be translated from the state of Adamic human life to that of Christic human life. There is also the reservation that prior to the promulgation of the Gospel, people were not bound by this rule.

The Catholic Catechism also states that the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us. Read as follows:

**he grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us “the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ” and through Baptism:34

But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves as dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.35

1988 Through the power of the Holy Spirit we take part in Christ’s Passion by dying to sin, and in his Resurrection by being born to a new life; we are members of his Body which is the Church, branches grafted onto the vine which is himself:36

(God) gave himself to us through his Spirit. By the participation of the Spirit, we become communicants in the divine nature… For this reason, those in whom the Spirit dwells are divinized.37**

Now the question, how could Abraham have been justified, or David justified, if neither these two men were recipients of the sacrament of water regeneration nor were recipient of the Holy Spirit that was poured out on Pentecost to provide union with Christ’s death and resurrection?
 
Trent says “since the promulgation of the Gospel.” Abraham lived before this.

Prior to that, faith and circumcision sufficed (but not in the same way as Baptism). See this from St. Thomas:

newadvent.org/summa/4070.htm#article4

Furthermore, the Holy Spirit was poured out in abundance at Pentecost, but He was still present in a more limited sense beforehand. He sanctified St. John the Baptist and Jeremiah, conceived Jesus in Mary’s womb, inspired the prophets and the Scriptures, etc.
 
The Council made it clear that “justification” is impossible for man who remains within the Adamic state, for it is within this state that man is afflicted with the power of sin and the reign of the devil, for he is weakened and requires grace from God. This “grace” is the “translation” from the Adamic state into the Christic state.

So are you saying that Abraham, upon God calling Him out of Ur, was translated from the Adamic state to the Christic state? That at this point, he received the grace of being co-crucified with Christ, co-buried with Christ, co-raised with Christ, and co-seated with Christ in the heavenly places? Christ had not even been raised from the dead when God called Abraham.
 
Abraham had faith in the future Passion of the Christ.

Also, God is outside of time:

Rev. 13:[8] And all that dwell upon the earth adored him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb, which was slain from the beginning of the world.

Challoner’s note: [8] Slain from the beginning: In the foreknowledge of God; and inasmuch as all mercy and grace, from the beginning, was given in view of his death and passion.

Also, from my understanding, when Christ descended to the dead, that is to the abode of the dead just (Abraham’s bosom), He formally united them to Himself and effecting what is now effected through Baptism (again, see the Summa section I linked to for the distinction between the grace of Baptism and that of circumcision).
 
But here we are speaking about Abraham’s life before circumcision, where he was justified. Abraham was reckoned righteous before he was circumcised, because of his faith in the one true God. How could he have been graced with the gift of resurrection life with Christ, which is precisely what salvation is in the NT, if he had not undergone regeneration in his life before circumcision?
 
What I mean is the following: If “justification” is given the strict definition of Trent, which is the act of God by which through the regeneration of the Holy Spirit we are infused with gift that actually make us just and righteous, then how was Abraham justified in his lifetime?

I understand that Abraham awaited for the equipment of baptismal grace for entering into the kingdom of heaven. However, it would seem to me that “justification” can have different meanings throughout the history of redemption. Could it not have been that Abraham being justified meant that God was pleased by His faith? Without all the baptismal graces of resurrection life?
 
The Old Testament saints had original sin removed and entered into Heaven with the death and resurrection of Christ. Before this they were in what theologians refer to as the Limbus Patrum (Limbo of the Fathers).
 
Yes, I understand this. But this is not the question of the post. The Scripture says that “Abraham” was justified, no? And he was justified when he believed in the word of promise concerning as many children as there are stars. He was justified (past tense). What did this consist of? Can we put in here the same definition as Trent and the Catechism? It seems to me that if we are, then we must believe Abraham was crucified with Christ and raised with Christ to live in good works.
 
Remember also that the gates of heaven were closed until the ascension and that the righteous dead were in a state known, for lack of a better word, as a spirit prison. After His crucifixion, Christ descended to the abode of the dead to preach the Gospel to them, thus allowing them to hear the fulness of salvation directly from Him. As well, in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, Jesus portrayed Abraham as being in a place of comfort prior to His Bodily resurrection.
 
The question is concerning the real and genuine justification of Abraham within his life (Genesis 15:6). What did this consist of?
 
I have not given extensive consideration to this subject, but I’ve long supposed that Abraham’s “justification” was of a lesser and more temporal kind than Christian justification.
 
God_Seeker said:
The question is concerning the real and genuine justification of Abraham within his life (Genesis 15:6). What did this consist of?
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It’s contained within the verse, itself:
[BIBLEDRB]Genesis 15:6[/BIBLEDRB]

Abram believed God.

St. Paul knew this and quoted this verse in Romans 4:3. St. Paul goes on to specify that Abram was counted as righteous before receiving the covenant of circumcision.

St. James also quoted it in James 2:23. St. James also cites Abraham’s works as fulfillment of the righteousness already attributed to him through faith.
 
po18guy said:
Remember also that the gates of heaven were closed until the ascension and that the righteous dead were in a state known, for lack of a better word, as a spirit prison. After His crucifixion, Christ descended to the abode of the dead to preach the Gospel to them, thus allowing them to hear the fulness of salvation directly from Him. As well, in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, Jesus portrayed Abraham as being in a place of comfort prior to His Bodily resurrection.
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Good point. I also think that for Christian theology to make sense, those who lived before the time of Jesus, and thus could not possibly have known about Him and His message or have been baptized, must nonetheless be given the opportunity for salvation, if for no other reason based on the notion of invincible ignorance. I suppose this would apply not only to the Patriarchs and Matriarchs such as Abraham and Sara but to common folk as well. Otherwise, Catholicism may be accused of being what SOME Catholics and Protestants falsely accuse Judaism of being: a religion of rituals and grounded only on the Letter of the Law rather than the Spirit of the Law. At the same time, it might also have been the case that some people residing in the so-called “Bosom of Abraham” did not accept the message of Jesus, even if delivered personally, thinking it was another test from G-d. What would happen to those people?
 
Essentially, Holy Saturday to release those who kept faith in God and were merciful and just, to enter into heaven with Christ. Araham and Moses, etc., were not kept in burning flames of hell.

Also note that when Christ died on the Cross, immediately afterwards, the souls of the just rose from their graves before many Jewish people in various places. His death broke the power of the bondage of sin and death.
 
meltzerboy said:
Good point. I also think that for Christian theology to make sense, those who lived before the time of Jesus, and thus could not possibly have known about Him and His message, must be given the opportunity for salvation, if for no other reason based on the notion of invincible ignorance. I suppose this would apply not only to the Patriarchs and Matriarchs such as Abraham and Sara but to common folk as well. Otherwise, Catholicism may be accused of being what SOME Catholics and Protestants falsely accuse Judaism of being: a religion of rituals and grounded only on the Letter of the Law rather than the Spirit of the Law. At the same time, it might also have been the case that some people residing in the so-called “Bosom of Abraham” did not accept the message of Jesus, even if delivered personally, thinking it was another test from G-d. What would happen to those people?
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There would be little reason to preach the Gospel to the dead if it:
  1. It had no effect in eternity
  2. All would reject it
  3. All would accept it
God always respects our free will, and so I would imagine that those in the spirit prison had the ability to reject the Christ. The parable of Lazarus and the rich man provides an unprecedented glimpse into the eternal. Yet, it was only a glimpse, and much rightly remains unknown. What we do know is that God is true to His principles of mercy and justice.
 
God_Seeker said:
The question is concerning the real and genuine justification of Abraham within his life (Genesis 15:6). What did this consist of?
Click to expand...
James 2:21-24
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God.
24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
 
po18guy said:
James 2:21-24
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God.
24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
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This is not the question, nor is this a valid answer.

The question is, given that Trent has given a singular, inflexible, and strict definition of justification, as presented in the first post, and that this definition included being co-crucified and co-resurrected with Christ, the power of the Holy Spirit, and the regeneration that comes from baptism. Obviously we know that water baptism was not required, but it still maintains that regeneration must take place for justification to happen.

Now, given that participation in the cross and resurrection and the power of the Holy Spirit to join man to it was not given until the time of Christ, what then does it mean for Abraham to be justified?
 
God_Seeker said:
This is not the question, nor is this a valid answer.

The question is, given that Trent has given a singular, inflexible, and strict definition of justification, as presented in the first post, and that this definition included being co-crucified and co-resurrected with Christ, the power of the Holy Spirit, and the regeneration that comes from baptism. Obviously we know that water baptism was not required, but it still maintains that regeneration must take place for justification to happen.

Now, given that participation in the cross and resurrection and the power of the Holy Spirit to join man to it was not given until the time of Christ, what then does it mean for Abraham to be justified?
Click to expand...
On what basis is Trent’s definition applicable retroactively?
 
Well it would have to be, because Paul sees Abraham’s justification as the paradigm of christian baptism?
 
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