ACLU: Abstinence-only program violates church/state separation

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kotv.com/main/home/storiesNL.asp?whichpage=1&id=83270
NEW YORK (AP) — The American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit Monday alleging that the federal government has improperly used taxpayer dollars to fund Christian religious activities in a nationwide program called the Silver Ring Thing that uses music and comedy skits to promote premarital abstinence among teens.

The Silver Ring Thing — which has held events in dozens of cities over the past five years — is an offshoot of the John Guest Evangelistic Team, a Christian ministry based in Sewickley, Pa. Since 2003, the program has received more than $1 million from the Department of Health and Human Services as part of the Bush administration’s initiative to expand abstinence-only education.
Though many of the grant recipients have religious affiliations, they are not supposed to use the federal money for religious proselytizing. The lawsuit, filed in federal court in Boston, alleges that the Silver Ring Thing crosses this line and uses grant money to encourage young people to commit themselves to Jesus Christ.

‘‘The courts have repeatedly said taxpayer dollars cannot be used to promote religion,’’ said Julie Sternberg, an attorney with the ACLU’s Reproductive Freedom Project. ‘‘The Silver Ring Thing blatantly violates this principle.’’

Chris Downing, a spokesman for the Department of Health and Human Services, said HHS doesn’t comment on pending litigation while Denny Pattyn, the Silver Ring Thing’s founder and president, had no immediate comment when reached by telephone.

In an interview two years ago with Agape Press, a conservative Christian news service, Pattyn was quoted as saying the federal funding ‘‘is a blessing, but also puts some restrictions on what the ministry can do with its sexual abstinence program.’’

‘‘We don’t ever want to take the gospel o’out ) of our message because webelieve the power for abstinence is a changed heart, not a ring on a finger,’’Pattyn was quoted as saying.

The Silver Ring Thing says more than 30,000 young people have committed themselves to premarital purity after attending the program’s three-hour multimedia presentations. In its latest newsletter, the program reports on the number of youths who ‘‘made commitments to Christ’’ at the conclusion of recent presentations — for example, 95 at a March event in Detroit, 65 at a February event in Immokalee, Fla.

The ACLU lawsuit says youths attending the presentations are given the opportunity to divide into secular and religious groups for the final portion of the event. The suit contends that students are encouraged to choose the religious option and to enroll in a Bible-based follow-up program — and it alleges that organizers make no effort to use the federal money only for secular purposes.

…for more on the story, use the link…
 
The ACLU does not really believe in seperation of church and state, they believe in the State Church of Secularism (Church of the Holy Mirror)
 
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   This spring the Pittsburgh Diocese rolled out the first Catholic based "Silver Ring Thing" event. This group teaches abstinence, or more accurately chastity, as a goal.
Now---------the ACLU is trying to say “No Fair.” The government can’t fund this. Hey Boys-----------don’t get your panties in a bunch. I went to the program with the teenagers from Pittsburgh. They did not have any Baptisms at the door as you were leaving--------and there was not ONE alter call. Of course this was the Catholic version.

In the Peace of Christ,
 
One of the leaders of this group, and Evangelical Minister, was on O’Reilly last night. At the end of their program there is a religious component to the talk. At that point they take a break and kids are asked if they want to hear about how this relates to what the Bible teaches they can stay or they can go to a different discussion that is purley secular in nature. Imagine the ACLU being against choice! This is done in after school hours and the government does not pay for the religious talk, that is privately funded.
 
The “wall” of separtion between church and state only has one side. Consider Montgomery County, MD and its “sex-ed” curriculum which teaches that religions, specifically Christianity, is wrong on teachings related to homosexuality and that Jesus did not condemn homosexuality. THAT is clearly proselytizing, just in the other direction. But, to the ACLU, that’s OK.
 
Why should the taxpayers fund evangelical Protestants. Apart from anything else why should Catholic taxpayers fund groups that think we will burn in hell. The fact that the particular issue is about abstinence is neither here nor there. The general principle that the state should not fund religious proselytism by anyone at anytime.

The Nation of Islam (Black Muslims) supports sexual abstinence, how many people on this forum would be happy to see their tax monet spent on NoI activities?
 
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Matt25:
Why should the taxpayers fund evangelical Protestants. Apart from anything else why should Catholic taxpayers fund groups that think we will burn in hell.
Are you a so called “traditional Catholic” or what? how can you judge they evangelical protestants that will go to hell? Verily I tell you it’s much easier for Kerry to go to hell than pro-lifers
 
The LA Simon Wiesenthal Center receives millions of dollars in taxpayer funds. It promotes left wing “tolerance” training sessions for teachers and parents. It holds staged “debates” on Catholic support of Nazism.

Many Protestant African American pre-schools receive block grants. Former congressman Floyd Flake’s pre-school requires kids as young as 3 to memorize bible verses. Over 3 billion a year is spent on these block grants.

The ACLU ever see a violation of their bogus “separation of church and state” with any of that?

Nope.
 
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Matt25:
Why should the taxpayers fund evangelical Protestants. Apart from anything else why should Catholic taxpayers fund groups that think we will burn in hell. The fact that the particular issue is about abstinence is neither here nor there. The general principle that the state should not fund religious proselytism by anyone at anytime.

The Nation of Islam (Black Muslims) supports sexual abstinence, how many people on this forum would be happy to see their tax monet spent on NoI activities?
So the ACLU can seek to promote that which DESTROYS religion of any type and that is okay:mad: What SAY you?Two words HOME SCHOOL:banghead:
 
Our public schools use every last dime of taxpayer money to promote paganism and secularism.
 
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condan:
Consider Montgomery County, MD and its “sex-ed” curriculum which teaches that religions, specifically Christianity, is wrong on teachings related to homosexuality and that Jesus did not condemn homosexuality. THAT is clearly proselytizing, just in the other direction. But, to the ACLU, that’s OK.
Do you have a cite for this?
 
From BP news:

GREENBELT, Md. (BP)–"The curriculum – aimed at eighth- and 10th-graders – claims that Jesus “said absolutely nothing at all about homosexuality” and that being homosexual is similar to being left-handed. It notes that some Baptist churches once defended racial segregation, implying that conservative Baptists today are on the wrong side of history. It also says that future generations likely will view today’s traditional beliefs on homosexuality with “astonishment” and that “religion has often been misused to justify hatred and oppression.”

Other artciles here
 
Figured the request for a citation was a set up. 99% of the time it is.

Yes, we are all stupid. Of course the ACLU isn’t OK with Christians being smeared by those pushing sex ed and the gay agenda on kids.

Geroge Soros, Planned Parenthood, PFAW, the ACLU, GLAAD, GLSEN and the rest of the liberal menagerie never work in concert. The ACLU isn’t hostile to Christianity.

Honest.
 
The ACLU is generally opposed to the government, including schools, advancing any interpretation of religious figures and their teaching. I doubt the case described by condan is any different, which is why I was interested in any source that said the ACLU supported the school’s actions.
 
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Yes, but I do not see in that article anything that indicates
How many lawsuits were filed by the ACLU to stop the programs indicated in that article?

Zero.

Thus the ACLU thinks it is OK.

Now, if you can show me a lawsuit they filed, I’ll accept your claim that the ACLU thinks it is not OK.
 
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Digitonomy:
Yes, but I do not see in that article anything that indicates
The ACLU, by not taking up the fight of the Christians whose religion is being slandered (at best), is endorsing the behavior. If the ACLU found the behavior or actions offensive, it would bring litigation to end it.

Clearly, given the content of the program, the language and intent denigrates the Christian faith. Surely this type of discrimination under the First Amendment would be a no-brainer for the ACLU wh would jump on it like a duck on a June bug if it involved Islam, but no action here. Why? One can only speculate, given their past track record, that it is precisely because it involves Christianity.

So, to the ACLU it is OK.
 
Build more Catholic schools. Seriously, build more of them because, in the near future, I see no end to the church/state issues in education. What other alternatives are there: a massive movement of parents attending classes to bring an end to the inequity in these matters; more Catholic lawyers, or…? :confused:
 
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