ACTS retreat

[agapewolf]

??? You have made spiritual experiences felt. How did you pull that off? Have you ever made the presents of Christ felt in the Holy Eucharist so the you could tell the difference from an unblessed host?

*It is not my intention at this time to speak of the importance that the spirit of faith has in the spiritual life, or of the necessity of judging everything with a supernatural rule, or of performing all our works with aims and intentions of the same order. This is what I wish to insist upon and to call attention to in an empathic manner; the chief reason we disregard faith is our preconceived idea that we must feel God and divine things. Although we know speculatively that God is not felt, practically we hold the contrary.

Do we feel a sacrament producing its proper effect? Do we feel the increase of grace in our soul? Do we feel the death of the soul by sin and its resurrection by sacramental absolution? Do we feel the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist in such a way that if we did not perceive Him sensibly, we would not believe in it?

Without doubt there are times when our Lord allows *Himself to be sensibly felt, yet it is not precisely grace that is felt, but often something else that accompanies it. Secrets to the Interior Life by the mystic Archbishop Martinez

You’ve proven my point. I explicitly said in my earlier posts that our faith should not depend on our feelings. That doesnt’ mean we don’t feel spirituality at all. By the way, there are saints that have felt the difference between consecrated and non-consecrated hosts.

I never claimed that I did anything. Never even implied it. Do not put words in my mouth. All I said was that spiritual experiences can be felt. (and I have felt some of them) You said they weren’t. Now you are quoting an archbishop that says they can be felt. I don’t understand what the problem is

 

[Doug50]

You’ve proven my point. I explicitly said in my earlier posts that our faith should not depend on our feelings. That doesnt’ mean we don’t feel spirituality at all. By the way, there are saints that have felt the difference between consecrated and non-consecrated hosts.

I never claimed that I did anything. Never even implied it. Do not put words in my mouth. All I said was that spiritual experiences can be felt. (and I have felt some of them) You said they weren’t. Now you are quoting an archbishop that says they can be felt. I don’t understand what the problem is

It is not the individual or a retreat that can make spiritual things felt. Those are gifts by the Holy Spirit. If many a saint has had to endure the Dark Night of the Soul why is it that so many in the charismatic movements/retreats have been more blessed than a Mother Teresa or a St Teresa:

To be conscious of a thing and to feel it sensibly are not the same thing; neither is one’s whole spiritual life a thing of continual conscious awareness. If we read the life of St. Therese of the Child Jesus with attention, we shall be convinced that she experienced delight only a very few times in her spiritual life, and that she rarely enjoyed sensible consolation [with God]. She lived by faith, by the obscurity of faith, and she is one of the most marvelous examples of that life of faith. - Martinez

 

[agapewolf]

It is not the individual or a retreat that can make spiritual things felt. Those are gifts by the Holy Spirit. If many a saint has had to endure the Dark Night of the Soul why is it that so many in the charismatic movements/retreats have been more blessed than a Mother Teresa or a St Teresa:

To be conscious of a thing and to feel it sensibly are not the same thing; neither is one’s whole spiritual life a thing of continual conscious awareness. If we read the life of St. Therese of the Child Jesus with attention, we shall be convinced that she experienced delight only a very few times in her spiritual life, and that she rarely enjoyed sensible consolation [with God]. She lived by faith, by the obscurity of faith, and she is one of the most marvelous examples of that life of faith. - Martinez

It is up to us to evangelize and spread the gospel. We can create atmospheres that help people be open to the Holy Spirit. The Acts retreat can be one such places. Its pretty simple.

 

[Doug50]

It is up to us to evangelize and spread the gospel. We can create atmospheres that help people be open to the Holy Spirit. The Acts retreat can be one such places. Its pretty simple.

The same can be said of the words from Archbishop Martinez.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Hope all goes well for you Ms. Swizzlestick and Naturegirl…best of luck with your ACT’s issues. …

Thank you! My best to you too, MrAgnostic. I hope your issues with ACTS are resolved in a way that both you and your wife are happy with.

Reading this thread makes me think that the ACTS retreats might need some tweaking as well. Unless a couple commits to both going, even if there is a time delay, I don’t think the Church should be involved in promoting secrets between spouses.

Again, secrets between spouses can be the beginning of trouble. The parish should not promote or encourage this. And for couples where one spouse is non-Catholic or in a very different place with his/her faith, this problem could be even worse.

Even something that is great and wonderful can have problems in implementation. Saying that the implementation of the ACTS retreats has caused problems isn’t an indictment of the program. But ignoring the problems will likely doom the program.

I think this is a very good summary. I’m hoping that changes to the ACTS program will soon be undertaken. Such changes may not help me or my husband or others like us, but maybe the ACTS program can be tweaked so that future retreatants don’t have to deal with the same issues that we have. It has been painful and difficult, but maybe it can be better for others.

 

[SwizzleStick]

…I wonder if in the places that maybe ACTS is being overly exerted on people that maybe an email to someone at ACTS mission office would help. I would be interested to know how it would be addressed.

actsmissions.org/index.htm

Maybe an e-mail is a good idea. As an outsider, I have no pull and no say. But, you are part of the ACTS community. Perhaps you could direct their attention in a constructive way.

Good plan. Hang in there!!!

Each of my children has a commitment on Saturday morning this weekend. One will not be an issue, but the other two may require a bit of juggling on my part since hubby will be occupied elsewhere, so this may be a stressful start. We’ll see how it goes. Thanks for the encouraging words.

ACTS isn’t just a retreat. It functions like a secretive fraternity within the parish. The candlelight service is for the retreatants being initiated into the “ACTS community.” The difference, though, is that the ACTS mission is to draw all into this fraternity. There are weekly prayer meetings for group members. Those meeting are only open to those who have gone to retreat and are members of the ACTS community. Why? Because you’re told you wouldn’t understand unless you’ve been through these retreats with the others in the prayer group. I know someone who went to a prayer meeting and was told they must first attend a retreat. I know somebody else who was actually told that she needed to go on retreat because now that her husband had gone he was up here while she was still down here. I don’t know if the up here down here was meant for an emotional high are spiritual one. I myself was told that the ACTS retreats awaken the Holy Spirit that’s been inside me since Baptism - these retreats must be pretty powerful stuff. I fall back on the words of Archbishop Martinez where he talked about spiritual show and that sensing spiritual things.

I think you have made very good points about the pop psychology and appeal to emotionalism of the ACTS retreat in other posts and this one. What is appealing, though, I don’t quite understand. Maybe some type of emotional bond is formed because the ACTS retreatants share things of a deeply personal nature, but I don’t see the connection with spirituality. What I find odd about that idea is that these people otherwise would not share in any other instance. I’ve been told on a few occasions that if I went on an ACTS retreat, I wouldn’t have to share anything with others that I wouldn’t want to share, that it would be up to me to share or not. What about the other side of that? Why would people who are strangers feel the need to share personal things with ME? And, if they did so, what does that have to do with Christ and my relationship (and theirs too) with Him? I just find the whole idea to be a bit odd and nothing I’d be interested in.

… And the whole “you wouldn’t understand unless you’ve been” could actually smack of Gnosticism if it was taken too far. Are ACTS retreatants privy to some secret, hidden knowledge that 2000 years of Catholic faith have been unable to impart to the rest of us until now? That’s creepy, IMO.

Good point and question. Why must it all be so secret and mysterious?

 

[MrAgnostic]

What does ACTS stand for anyway ?

 

[SwizzleStick]

What does ACTS stand for anyway ?

Found on the www.actsmissions.org site and from the FAQ page:

"…Talks and activities during the retreat focus on Adoration, Community, Theology, and Service, from which the ACTS acronym is derived. "…

 

[Doug50]

Thank you! My best to you too, MrAgnostic. I hope your issues with ACTS are resolved in a way that both you and your wife are happy with.

I think this is a very good summary. I’m hoping that changes to the ACTS program will soon be undertaken. Such changes may not help me or my husband or others like us, but maybe the ACTS program can be tweaked so that future retreatants don’t have to deal with the same issues that we have. It has been painful and difficult, but maybe it can be better for others.

I told that while there is some latitude the organization limits the changes that can be made.

 

[MrAgnostic]

Maybe they should have put an “F” for family and made it FACTS.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Maybe they should have put an “F” for family and made it FACTS.

That would be nice, wouldn’t it, especially if a retreatant’s actual family could be included? Someone told me that one of the benefits of going to an ACTS retreat is that afterward the retreatants would have a family in Christ, a Christian support group that they could turn to for prayer or to get together with to pray. Of course, silly me, I thought I already had those things with my own family, as well as with my brothers and sisters in Christ each time I went to Mass, spent a holy hour in adoration of our Lord, prayed a group rosary at Church, went to the Stations of the Cross, attended Our Mother of Perpetual Help Devotions, etc. I guess I am just confused.

I told that while there is some latitude the organization limits the changes that can be made.

Even so, I would like to see changes made to help others avoid the situation I find myself in as a result of my hubby attending ACTS and my likely not ever attending.

 

[MrAgnostic]

Another bit of info that just happened. My wife received a call to assist an ACTS group at their meeting which is 80+ miles away. she dropped everything, hopped in the car and was in process of leaving when I stopped her. I asked if she wanted me to drive her, since it would be really late coming home. Reply was “This is a ladies meeting, men are not allowed”, and reminded me that I was a non-acts person. Sound more like a womens lib group than a religous one. I did attend the “family” open house last year which was a total riot. Myself and another lady were the only two that were not participants. No one talked to us, said hi or otherwise. I will be in San Antonio in the next week or so, and I WILL stop by their office to have a few words with them. Just for the fun of it, I will wear a wireless video camera and record the whole thing.

 

[SwizzleStick]

I just posted a poll forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5115695#post5115695regarding the effects of an ACTS retreat on both retreatant and spouse. I am interested in learning the effect of ACTS on most people. I suspect most will vote in a postive way since those who do go to ACTS seem to just love it, but I am curious to see how this shakes out.

 

[naturegirl]

Swizzlestick, the poll is a great idea - how do I vote? I looked at it but couldn’t figure out how to participate.

By the way, I called our parish pastor today and gave him my (name removed by moderator)ut on how to improve the ACTS retreat. I was bolstered in sharing my opinion after reading all these posts and realizing many spouses had the same issues that I struggled with. I let him know that there seems to be some common themes emerging here. First of all, our pastor is very supportive of the ACTS retreat so while he tried to be diplomatic in listening to me, he was very defensive of the ACTS retreat remaining exactly the way it is. He is aware that some retreatants go overboard in trying to recruit others and claims to have warned everyone away from aggressive recruiting. But of course this is somewhat out of his control. The secrecy between souses was my big issue, yet he defended the way things are done. He did hear me out, so possibly when he thinks more about my comments, he may decide to address this issue with the next retreat. I felt sorry for him as he struggled to understand this issue - he really did try, but as an unmarried person, it’s impossible to imagine what it would be like to be married, and how it would affect the marital relationship to be shut out from something major that your spouse has experienced.

Another issue I addressed was the time committment of joining the ACTS community - which goes beyond the 4 days required for the initial retreat. He agreed that it can be considerable, and that members need to be respectful of each other and not pressure one another to help with future retreats, etc. Lastly, I mentioned the emotionalism component of the retreat. He agreed that this should not be a shortcut to deeper spirituality, but that it can help open the door to a spiritual journey.

Overall, it was nice to be heard, but I don’t think a single thing will change.

 

[Doug50]

. I did attend the “family” open house last year which was a total riot. Myself and another lady were the only two that were not participants. No one talked to us, said hi or otherwise.

This is a recurring complaint. Someone complained he went up a group of people who were friends of his. The group of people had just been to their ACTS retreat. They remained in their own world and he got ignored. He had said something to them; they looked at him but said nothing, and then went back to reliving their retreat.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Swizzlestick, the poll is a great idea - how do I vote? I looked at it but couldn’t figure out how to participate. …(

I’m sorry, naturegirl, but I don’t think you will not be able to vote in the poll for awhile because you are still under “Trial Membership.” Once you reach “Junior Member” status, you may vote in polls, I think. One has to be a member for 90 days AND post 100 times to attain “Junior Member” status. I’m sorry to be the bearer of that news since you want to vote right now.

 

[SwizzleStick]

…Overall, it was nice to be heard, but I don’t think a single thing will change.

I’m afraid this will remain true, although it might be helpful if an ACTS retreatant brought up issues with the ACTS community as well as with the pastor at Church. I know it is just as likely not to have an effect at all, but that also seems like a good place to try to be heard.

 

[naturegirl]

I’m sorry, naturegirl, but I don’t think you will not be able to vote in the poll for awhile because you are still under “Trial Membership.” Once you reach “Junior Member” status, you may vote in polls, I think. One has to be a member for 90 days AND post 100 times to attain “Junior Member” status. I’m sorry to be the bearer of that news since you want to vote right now.

Aha! Thanks for explaining. It will interesting to see the results!

 

[SwizzleStick]

I’m sorry, naturegirl, but I don’t think you will **-]not/-] **be able to vote in the poll for awhile because you are still under “Trial Membership.” Once you reach “Junior Member” status, you may vote in polls, I think. One has to be a member for 90 days AND post 100 times to attain “Junior Member” status. I’m sorry to be the bearer of that news since you want to vote right now.

Glad you understood since what I meant to say is reflected with the change above.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Well, we are surviving ACTS okay. I am discouraged because I don’t know how I will remain positive all summer. Guess I’ll take each Saturday as it comes and hope I don’t lose patience. Hubby will be attending meetings on most Saturday mornings from 7:00-9:00 throughout the summer until the actual retreat August 7-9. That will make meeting the kids’ schedules a bit difficult since it will be my responsibility to get them where they need to be on most of those Saturdays. We haven’t discussed ACTS much beyond my commenting that it will be hard for me to do it all and hubby responded that he committed to be on team for the next men’s ACTS retreat and he will not miss a meeting unless it is absolutely unavoidable. I bit my tongue to keep from pointing out that I thought he was already committed to our family and me and that our needs should be a consideration before ACTS, but decided that saying that wouldn’t help anything at all. In his defense, he did say he was missing ACTS meetings that fell during our vacation and for a scout campout with our son. While that is true, the fact remains that the rest of the summer schedule for our kids doesn’t just go away just because he committed to something else for himself on most Saturdays of the summer. Sigh.

Please pray for me to be patient and accepting. I really think I am going to need it.