Actual boundary setting phrases and conduct?

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This 100%!

If you are getting stuck in arguments about the boundaries, then you actually haven’t enforced the boundary to begin with.

So - the boundaries are to be enforced, which includes that the boundaries are not up for debate. Learn some of the phrases suggested, especially “I’m sorry you feel that way”, and learn how to walk away politely when needed (go for a walk, go to bed, go to the bathroom, whatever, just get away, even for a minute).

Setting boundaries is not about explaining rationally to the other person why the boundary needs to be set. The boundary needs to be set precisely because they have been incapable of rationally examining the situation. So it’s more like training a dog (or young child), and consistency is the key. You don’t get mad, you don’t get upset, you just ingore bad behaviour (change topic, walk away) and reward good behaviour (have engaged conversations when she can remain appropriate).
Well, yes and no. Do you know how you can tell you are in an argument with some people? Their lips are moving. Her mom sounds as if she may belong in that group.

You can’t build a fence high enough that no one allowed the least chance won’t be able to get over it. To say that the OP hasn’t enforced any boundaries because she hasn’t put in a moat and razor wire yet isn’t quite right. It means that she may unfortunately have to enforce her well-marked boundaries with even more forbidding barriers. That she has not jumped straight to the moat and the dogs and the razor wire and guard towers with guns does not mean she has not “enforced” her boundaries at all. That is no comment against her. No, putting in boundaries takes time and patience, if one is to remain approachable to those willing to approach in appropriate ways.
 
Well, yes and no. Do you know how you can tell you are in an argument with some people? Their lips are moving. Her mom sounds as if she may belong in that group.

You can’t build a fence high enough that no one allowed the least chance won’t be able to get over it. To say that the OP hasn’t enforced any boundaries because she hasn’t put in a moat and razor wire yet isn’t quite right. It means that she may unfortunately have to enforce her well-marked boundaries with even more forbidding barriers. That she has not jumped straight to the moat and the dogs and the razor wire and guard towers with guns does not mean she has not “enforced” her boundaries at all. That is no comment against her. No, putting in boundaries takes time and patience, if one is to remain approachable to those willing to approach in appropriate ways.
There’s also the fact that it’s only been about 9 months since I hit the point of being truly, completely independent. Given the combination of state laws, where I was working, and my health problems, that was when I could realistically get functional health insurance that didn’t require going through them. So I’ve been somewhat reluctant to fully enforce boundaries until fairly recently, simply because there was a risk of being left unable to afford necessary medical care.
 
There’s also the fact that it’s only been about 9 months since I hit the point of being truly, completely independent. Given the combination of state laws, where I was working, and my health problems, that was when I could realistically get functional health insurance that didn’t require going through them. So I’ve been somewhat reluctant to fully enforce boundaries until fairly recently, simply because there was a risk of being left unable to afford necessary medical care.
Sometimes abusers rationalize that their victims “don’t mind” because the victim doesn’t object or does not do so adamantly. They’re ignoring the fact that there would be more strident objection except that the abuser is also abusing a position of real power and responsibility, and has the victim in a position to fear retribution that the victim cannot afford to absorb.
 
Well, yes and no. Do you know how you can tell you are in an argument with some people? Their lips are moving. Her mom sounds as if she may belong in that group.
Sure, but I haven’t said that DarkLight should stop any and all arguments. That would be, as you imply, an insurmountable challenge. But she can dictate the subjects she is willing or not to engage in argument over. I was pointing out that if there are arguments about the boundaries themselves, then pretty much everything is up for grabs.
You can’t build a fence high enough that no one allowed the least chance won’t be able to get over it. To say that the OP hasn’t enforced any boundaries because she hasn’t put in a moat and razor wire yet isn’t quite right.
This is no what I was suggesting. Again, it’s about picking the right lines to draw. Fench off the things to be fenced off, and keep open the rest.
No, putting in boundaries takes time and patience, if one is to remain approachable to those willing to approach in appropriate ways.
Yes, time and patience, but also consistency. Work out the boundaries you want to set, and consistently keep them. That is fair. And as I said, you must both ingore bad behaviour (change topic, walk away) and reward good behaviour. Rewarding good behaviour is just as important.
 
I take the point from underacloud - boundary lines don’t do much good if they’re constantly up for debate. I’m learning a lot of lessons the hard way.

Part of the trouble is that most of us instinctively want to deal with the other person as a reasonable individual. And if you grew up where wanting something different was not ok, even setting boundaries with a reasonable person takes some learning. It took a while to learn to, for example, request that a generally perfectly reasonable roommate not use the kitchen counter as storage space. Especially when you’re used to boundaries being taken as a personal attack, the first step ends up being learning how to set normal limits with reasonable people.

With a reasonable person some back-and-forth is just fine; e.g. “I’ll move my stuff if you consolidate yours so there’s room in the cabinets for everything.” It would be quit unreasonable in fact to allow no discussion whatsoever. Unfortunately many unreasonable people function by trying to make it look like the other person is the one being unreasonable.
 
I take the point from underacloud - boundary lines don’t do much good if they’re constantly up for debate. I’m learning a lot of lessons the hard way.

Part of the trouble is that most of us instinctively want to deal with the other person as a reasonable individual. And if you grew up where wanting something different was not ok, even setting boundaries with a reasonable person takes some learning. It took a while to learn to, for example, request that a generally perfectly reasonable roommate not use the kitchen counter as storage space. Especially when you’re used to boundaries being taken as a personal attack, the first step ends up being learning how to set normal limits with reasonable people.

With a reasonable person some back-and-forth is just fine; e.g. “I’ll move my stuff if you consolidate yours so there’s room in the cabinets for everything.” It would be quit unreasonable in fact to allow no discussion whatsoever. Unfortunately many unreasonable people function by trying to make it look like the other person is the one being unreasonable.
Yes, when you are dealing the person who has been gas-lighting you–twisting what you say, selectively omitting information to favor the gas-lighter, or even making stuff up in order to make you doubt your own memory and sense of things, there is a lot of un-learning and re-learning to do.

IOW, you’re not just re-training yourself. The gas-lighter or emotional abuser has trained herself to see you in a particular way. She has come to feel entitled to expect certain responses from you and to take offense when you don’t act as she has come to believe you ought to behave. She’s gotten that perception reinforced by years of having her “system” work and rationalizing that is has the 4th Commandment as its foundation.

You have a lot of work to do, and it is not going to be a fun mother-daughter project. Keep reassuring yourself that a) you’re not doing the wrong thing just because it is a lot of hassle with few immediate results and b) that having to feel your way and use some trial-error-retry doesn’t mean you’re inept. There is no one who could be put into your place and just walk in and fix this. They might be able to get your mother to treat* them* in a certain way rather quickly, but they don’t have to un-do years of practice and ingrained perception the way that you do. Hang in there. A hard battle does not mean the general is incompetent. Sometimes it only means that the adversary is entrenched and formidable.
 
I think you need to alert your mother ahead of time what areas are not open to discussion and what the consequences will be.

For me, my mother had a way of having sly insults and, at the same time, encouraging the very behavior that would be destructive.

For example, nearly everyone in my family has had struggles with weight. Sometimes mine was under total control, sometimes not.

My mom wouldn’t comment to me about me, but she would make comments about how she would worry about my sister’s weight - and what it was doing to her.

And then she would start this routine of offering me something to eat or drink. I would usually say “No thank you.”. About five minutes later, she would start this process of listing everything in the refrigerator, freezer or cupboards.

“You know we bought this ham - it is really delicious, would you like a sandwich?”
“No thank you, I’m fine”.
“Well, you’d really be doing us a favor if you would drink a soda - we have so much, it will really go bad if we don’t get rid of it.”
“No thank you”
“We have girl scout cookies in the freezer, would you like some?”
“No, I just ate, I’m fine.”
and on and on and on.

At some point after doing this routine for years, and sometimes sabatoging my own desire to not be tempted - I laid it on the line. “I am okay with you offering me something one time - but if I decline, I need to have you stop. You can tell me that the offer is open if I change my mind, but don’t bring it up again. And, I have to tell you that if you do go ahead and offer me more food, then I will have to leave.”.

It took several attempts - of me actually leaving before my mom realized that I was serious. I realize that she had no malintent on her part - but it was destructive to me."

So, if I were you, and the issue were clothes, I would lay it out for my mom ahead of time. I would say something like this. “Mom, there are certain hot-button items that I do not want to discuss. One of them is how I dress. If the subject comes up, I am going to immediately say this to you: 'before I say anything else to you, I am going to take a walk. When I return, I will not discuss this topic. I love you, but I won’t discuss this. If you persist, I will go back out and continue my walk.”

And then I would do it. The first time you do this, It will take some resolve. Don’t be angry - react in a calm voice that only denotes that you mean it."

When you do go on your walk, gather your composure. realize that this is her way of dealing with the situation. And when you return, restart the conversation with some pleasant thoughts about something entirely different.
 
I think you need to alert your mother ahead of time what areas are not open to discussion and what the consequences will be.

For me, my mother had a way of having sly insults and, at the same time, encouraging the very behavior that would be destructive.

For example, nearly everyone in my family has had struggles with weight. Sometimes mine was under total control, sometimes not.

My mom wouldn’t comment to me about me, but she would make comments about how she would worry about my sister’s weight - and what it was doing to her.

And then she would start this routine of offering me something to eat or drink. I would usually say “No thank you.”. About five minutes later, she would start this process of listing everything in the refrigerator, freezer or cupboards.

“You know we bought this ham - it is really delicious, would you like a sandwich?”
“No thank you, I’m fine”.
“Well, you’d really be doing us a favor if you would drink a soda - we have so much, it will really go bad if we don’t get rid of it.”
“No thank you”
“We have girl scout cookies in the freezer, would you like some?”
“No, I just ate, I’m fine.”
and on and on and on.

At some point after doing this routine for years, and sometimes sabatoging my own desire to not be tempted - I laid it on the line. “I am okay with you offering me something one time - but if I decline, I need to have you stop. You can tell me that the offer is open if I change my mind, but don’t bring it up again. And, I have to tell you that if you do go ahead and offer me more food, then I will have to leave.”.

It took several attempts - of me actually leaving before my mom realized that I was serious. I realize that she had no malintent on her part - but it was destructive to me."

So, if I were you, and the issue were clothes, I would lay it out for my mom ahead of time. I would say something like this. “Mom, there are certain hot-button items that I do not want to discuss. One of them is how I dress. If the subject comes up, I am going to immediately say this to you: 'before I say anything else to you, I am going to take a walk. When I return, I will not discuss this topic. I love you, but I won’t discuss this. If you persist, I will go back out and continue my walk.”

And then I would do it. The first time you do this, It will take some resolve. Don’t be angry - react in a calm voice that only denotes that you mean it."

When you do go on your walk, gather your composure. realize that this is her way of dealing with the situation. And when you return, restart the conversation with some pleasant thoughts about something entirely different.
My niece solved her problem with her very difficult father. She never visited him unless she was “on her way” somewhere else. She would visit him until things became a problem then she would say, “Oops where has the time gone.” and off she would dash.

Don’t give your mother time to argue. Up and off on a walk the second things get dicey.

No explanations. Just, “Time for a walk.” and out the door. You may do this four or five times in a row but it think it might work. Do not engage.
 
Yes, when you are dealing the person who has been gas-lighting you–twisting what you say, selectively omitting information to favor the gas-lighter, or even making stuff up in order to make you doubt your own memory and sense of things, there is a lot of un-learning and re-learning to do.

IOW, you’re not just re-training yourself. The gas-lighter or emotional abuser has trained herself to see you in a particular way. She has come to feel entitled to expect certain responses from you and to take offense when you don’t act as she has come to believe you ought to behave. She’s gotten that perception reinforced by years of having her “system” work and rationalizing that is has the 4th Commandment as its foundation.

You have a lot of work to do, and it is not going to be a fun mother-daughter project. Keep reassuring yourself that a) you’re not doing the wrong thing just because it is a lot of hassle with few immediate results and b) that having to feel your way and use some trial-error-retry doesn’t mean you’re inept. There is no one who could be put into your place and just walk in and fix this. They might be able to get your mother to treat* them* in a certain way rather quickly, but they don’t have to un-do years of practice and ingrained perception the way that you do. Hang in there. A hard battle does not mean the general is incompetent. Sometimes it only means that the adversary is entrenched and formidable.
It’s especially hard when what you really want to say is “oh come on now be reasonable.” It’s hard to walk away from someone saying they don’t understand - even when their lack of understanding seems rather unbelievable. And it can be quite impossible to explain common sense!

We’ve had this with the “don’t bring up the past” argument before. The trouble is my mother wants to put all of the past in the same category. So I can say, hey you had negative comments on my clothing yesterday, and the day before, and the day before that, cut it out. And the response is well, you said (15 years ago) that you did this because it annoyed me. It’s ridiculous of course to consider that relevant now - but of course I’m the one who brought up the past first!
 
Part of the purpose of rote responses is so I don’t say anything remotely close to what I’m thinking!

But in all seriousness - sometimes rote responses are useful. In cases like this, what needs to happen is to communicate that some subjects are closed. Not up for discussion, no matter how many times they’re brought up. They may not work for every situation - but in a case like this where roughly the same thing keeps happening they’re pretty good.
I would still read something. I have not read other threads you may have posted about this issue; however, what you are describing in this thread sounds normal parent behavior to me.
I am not saying it is “ideal parenting”. Who has ideal parents?

Young people are supposed to “break away” and live independently as part of personality development. However, there may be a healthy, and unhealthy, way to do it.

I certainly don’t know the healthy way. We never had kids.

However, I have seen people do what some people have suggested here and build “boundaries” like the wall of China over some little thing – and it can go on for years.

Last Sunday, the priest had an interesting comment that caught my ear. He said we need to be more inclusive, and if we find ourselves drawing a line in the sand with someone over some issue, (instead of working it out), then we should not be surprised if Jesus is standing on the other side of the line.

So I don’t know how to handle the “afraid to let go” parent, since I was not in that situation.

What I am working on is trying to be more “present” with other people instead of “thinking”.

I believe most of us are thinking instead of listening. When two people interact like this there tends to be misperception and conflict. For example, your mother might be concerned about you, express it poorly, and what you hear in the “thinking” is that she is trying to run your life.

This sort of interaction tends to be toxic for both people. However, if just one of the two is present in the interaction, this tends to heal both of the people in my opinion.

Good luck.
 
I would still read something. I have not read other threads you may have posted about this issue; however, what you are describing in this thread sounds normal parent behavior to me.
I am not saying it is “ideal parenting”. Who has ideal parents?

Young people are supposed to “break away” and live independently as part of personality development. However, there may be a healthy, and unhealthy, way to do it.

I certainly don’t know the healthy way. We never had kids.

However, I have seen people do what some people have suggested here and build “boundaries” like the wall of China over some little thing – and it can go on for years.

Last Sunday, the priest had an interesting comment that caught my ear. He said we need to be more inclusive, and if we find ourselves drawing a line in the sand with someone over some issue, (instead of working it out), then we should not be surprised if Jesus is standing on the other side of the line.

So I don’t know how to handle the “afraid to let go” parent, since I was not in that situation.

What I am working on is trying to be more “present” with other people instead of “thinking”.

I believe most of us are thinking instead of listening. When two people interact like this there tends to be misperception and conflict. For example, your mother might be concerned about you, express it poorly, and what you hear in the “thinking” is that she is trying to run your life.

This sort of interaction tends to be toxic for both people. However, if just one of the two is present in the interaction, this tends to heal both of the people in my opinion.

Good luck.
The way I’d consider it is more…I’ve tried to work it out and that hasn’t been working. I understand that my mother is anxious and worried about me. I also rather suspect she’s feeling depressed in part over having her “role” - that of a stay-at-home, homeschool mother - no longer being needed, and not really knowing what to do anymore. I think she’s struggling with feeling like she doesn’t have a place anymore, and is responding by trying to make it so I still need her.

But at some point I can’t fix how she feels. I may try, but at some point I just can’t be everything she wants me to be. I think even if I did everything she asked it wouldn’t be enough, because at some point it’s as much about her own insecurities as about me. I’ve got enough anxiety and depression to deal with on my own; I can’t take on hers as well. Sometimes the only way to encourage a parent to let go is to put them in a situation where they don’t have any (name removed by moderator)ut.

Working things out takes two people. I can’t make my mother work things out with me. I can offer up to a point, but I’m not going to keep making one-sided offers. And I’m not going to put up with being insulted regularly when I talk to her. The only way I have right now is to enforce consequences for bad behavior - like nagging or lecturing me repeatedly on issues where she doesn’t like my decision, or continually bringing up the same topic long after it’s been talked to death. And I can hope and pray this leads to her coming to a point where we can disagree without it being a huge issue, but I can’t make her get there.
 
Have you tried to tell her this, like this? The way you put it, it sounds like a good start.

I cut off contact with my family for a year and a half.
Sentences like this came up when we started talking again.
 
The way I’d consider it is more…I’ve tried to work it out and that hasn’t been working. I understand that my mother is anxious and worried about me. I also rather suspect she’s feeling depressed in part over having her “role” - that of a stay-at-home, homeschool mother - no longer being needed, and not really knowing what to do anymore. I think she’s struggling with feeling like she doesn’t have a place anymore, and is responding by trying to make it so I still need her.

But at some point I can’t fix how she feels. I may try, but at some point I just can’t be everything she wants me to be. I think even if I did everything she asked it wouldn’t be enough, because at some point it’s as much about her own insecurities as about me. I’ve got enough anxiety and depression to deal with on my own; I can’t take on hers as well. Sometimes the only way to encourage a parent to let go is to put them in a situation where they don’t have any (name removed by moderator)ut.

Working things out takes two people. I can’t make my mother work things out with me. I can offer up to a point, but I’m not going to keep making one-sided offers. And I’m not going to put up with being insulted regularly when I talk to her. The only way I have right now is to enforce consequences for bad behavior - like nagging or lecturing me repeatedly on issues where she doesn’t like my decision, or continually bringing up the same topic long after it’s been talked to death. And I can hope and pray this leads to her coming to a point where we can disagree without it being a huge issue, but I can’t make her get there.
I am not discounting your efforts. Interpersonal relationships in families, especially with parents can be challenging because those closest too us know where we are vulnerable.

The only specific suggestion I have is to read something, and use this as an opportunity to grow. I recently purchased “Boundaries” by Cloud and Townsend.

The last book I read from these guys taught me a few things about myself. For example, because we moved almost every year when I was growing up, I cannot easily form close relationships with people.

So, I really have no idea how to solve the issue you have with your mom.

But there are experts in this sort of thing.

One of them might be able to teach you something you don’t know.
 
In my extended family, there was one grandma that was so emotionally invasive that her daughter and SIL and grandchild emigrated to a different continent. It was partly for other good reasons, of course, but I got a taste of what it must have been like when my husband and I were visiting her city some years ago. We were having dinner with some cousins across town, and no more than about an hour or so into our pleasant get-together, the phone starts ringing. It’s grandma. She’s worried that we haven’t been taken back to where we were staying yet. We keep enjoying our visit with the cousins. The phone continues to ring. Grandma’s really worried that we haven’t been taking back to our accommodation yet. Finally, we all give up and the cousins drive us back. (And it’s now been nearly 16 years since I’ve seen the cousins–it’s on another continent and that evening was really our one chance to see them.)

So, while grandma wasn’t necessarily a terrible person, I understand perfectly why emigration started looking like such a good idea to her daughter and SIL.
 
Have you tried to tell her this, like this? The way you put it, it sounds like a good start.

I cut off contact with my family for a year and a half.
Sentences like this came up when we started talking again.
I have not. The trouble has been anytime I get anywhere close she explodes at me. I don’t really want another “How dare you accuse me of such things?” conversation. And that seems to be what happens any time I try to ask her to change anything.
 
Reading this thread makes me SOOO appreciative of my relationship with my 27-year old son and 24-year old daughter. I love them and love to do stuff with them. I would die if they didn’t want me to be around them.

Yes, I worry about them, but I learned to let go a long time ago. Just BEING is better than any verbal advice. They get it.

God bless you DarkLight.
 
I have not. The trouble has been anytime I get anywhere close she explodes at me. I don’t really want another “How dare you accuse me of such things?” conversation. And that seems to be what happens any time I try to ask her to change anything.
I’m so sorry.
I don’t know what to tell you.

My relationship with my parents was tense at best when I was younger, abusive and disfuncional, it’s a long story, but at one point it got so bad that I literally left in the middle of the night, took my dog, didn’t even pack, just threw my stuff in the car and left. Came back the next day while they were out for the rest of it and left my key.
For a while they tried calling, but it wasn’t getting us anywhere so I refused to talk to them.
A year and a half later we started over, but in the meantime we all had a lot of time to think and grow, and later I learned that my aunt took my side and told my mother some things very honestly and made her think.
Do you have someone like that?

Honestly, if they had behaved like your mother, I wouldn’t have anything to do with them right now. I was prepared for that possibility, even a priest I talked to advised me to stay away if things didn’t change.
 
A book that might help is Do your parents drive you crazy? by Janet Dight. It teaches the reader what different challenges look like and some simple ways to stall them. It also balances parental bad habits with one’s own bad habits, to identify things you might have to stop doing to get them to stop doing what they’re doing.

In my experience, if someone’s really out to push you around, agreeing/yielding wouldn’t solve the problem. They’d just find something else to complain about.

If you were to answer,* “I don’t think so, because if I did, you’d just find something else to complain about,”* and they became upset, that would be the kind of upset in which you’d hit a nerve. Try the charitable ways and the funny ways other posters have listed, before you call the parents out on that. As long as you remember it yourself, that’s what will make the most difference in you.
 
A book that might help is Do your parents drive you crazy? by Janet Dight. It teaches the reader what different challenges look like and some simple ways to stall them. It also balances parental bad habits with one’s own bad habits, to identify things you might have to stop doing to get them to stop doing what they’re doing.

In my experience, if someone’s really out to push you around, agreeing/yielding wouldn’t solve the problem. They’d just find something else to complain about.

If you were to answer,* “I don’t think so, because if I did, you’d just find something else to complain about,”* and they became upset, that would be the kind of upset in which you’d hit a nerve. Try the charitable ways and the funny ways other posters have listed, before you call the parents out on that. As long as you remember it yourself, that’s what will make the most difference in you.
Reading through that book…I think it’s essentially saying to do what I’m doing here, just maybe not in so many words. The problem here seems to be less the issue themselves and more that I did something that isn’t what my mother wants.

The way I see it, it’s a combination of a parent that has a very authoritarian style, and that parent not wanting to let go of being the parent. As a child the expectation was instant, cheerful obedience. When told to do something, you put a smile on your face, said “yes mom”, and went and did it right away. Anything less than that was rebellion.

Unfortunately my mother seems to have never gotten out of that way of thinking. Near as I can tell, she’s still trying to establish her authority as a parent, despite the fact that she doesn’t actually have any at the moment. The problem isn’t the clothes or what I’m doing with my job or whatever - it’s that she told me to do something, and I’m not doing it. The way she talks is still very much the way she spoke to me when I was a child - I wouldn’t be doing this if you’d just behave yourself, just like when I was a child and she was explaining why I was getting a spanking.

And that’s what needs to be challenged. I’m not going to be emotionally punished for not obeying my mother - and that’s I think what’s been going on. It’s a power struggle with a parent trying to retain control over a rebellious child, and that’s not right.
 
Reading through that book…I think it’s essentially saying to do what I’m doing here, just maybe not in so many words. The problem here seems to be less the issue themselves and more that I did something that isn’t what my mother wants.

The way I see it, it’s a combination of a parent that has a very authoritarian style, and that parent not wanting to let go of being the parent. As a child the expectation was instant, cheerful obedience. When told to do something, you put a smile on your face, said “yes mom”, and went and did it right away. Anything less than that was rebellion.

Unfortunately my mother seems to have never gotten out of that way of thinking. Near as I can tell, she’s still trying to establish her authority as a parent, despite the fact that she doesn’t actually have any at the moment. The problem isn’t the clothes or what I’m doing with my job or whatever - it’s that she told me to do something, and I’m not doing it. The way she talks is still very much the way she spoke to me when I was a child - I wouldn’t be doing this if you’d just behave yourself, just like when I was a child and she was explaining why I was getting a spanking.

And that’s what needs to be challenged. I’m not going to be emotionally punished for not obeying my mother - and that’s I think what’s been going on. It’s a power struggle with a parent trying to retain control over a rebellious child, and that’s not right.
This has the ring of truth, and it’s probably exactly what’s going on, here.

It’s going to be a process, to deal with it as time goes on, but for better or for worse, things can’t continue in this way.

You also pointed out that maybe she’s feeling at loose ends now that she is no longer a home-schooling Mom with busy things to do for you, and now that you have recovered from your illness, she is also no longer the mother of a sick child, again with many useful busy things to do for you.

She needs to rediscover herself, and find something to do with her time apart from finding ways to make you miserable. And that’s not your problem; nor is it your challenge. This is something she needs to do for herself. 🙂
 
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