Adam and Eve: Real or just representation of events

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rev_kevin said:
They would be from God. If you look at Genesis 1 God created “people” in his own image male and female at the same time, no mention of male first and female later and it don’t mention Eden. Now in Genesis 2 it mentions Eden and he placed 2 humans there. Fist came the male and later came the female. So God created the ones in Genesis 1 and 2.
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The two Creation accounts are complementary.

The first is the order of creation from God’s perspective. The second is about man’s importance.
 
rev_kevin said:
Thats not what it says. Why would there be 2 accounts of the same thing.
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The whole Bible is full of duplicate accounts of the same thing, with different viewpoints. We even have four Gospels to tell the stories of Jesus from a variety of points of view.
Cane and Able don’t come around until Chapter 4 and who were the other people that Cane had to worry about?
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His brothers and sisters, and nieces and nephews.
Who was pregnant with his child?
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His wife (probably a sister, niece, or second-cousin).
Why does it say people and not Adam and Eve? Why is there mention of other lands? Why is there a Garden of Eden? There is no mention of anyone leaving the Garden of Eden before God told Adam and Eve to leave, so who would Cane have to worry about?
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Keep in mind that the story of Cain and Abel takes place 130 years after Adam and Eve got thrown out of the Garden - plenty of time for Adam and Eve to have had other children, and for those other children to have left home and started families elsewhere.
 
The Book of Jubilees (non- canonical) states that he married his twin sister Avan.
 
buffalo said:
Cain had to worry about his cousins and their children.
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There is no mention of any children until Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born who was a replacement for Able Then after Seth was born Adam lived another 800 years and had other sons and daughters. So I can’t see how these other people could be cousins and their children. Why is there no mention of any daughters before Seth was born? Wouldn’t Cain instead of saying “all who see me will kill me” he would have said “my cousins and their children would kill me if they see me,”
 
rev_kevin said:
There is no mention of any children until Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born who was a replacement for Able Then after Seth was born Adam lived another 800 years and had other sons and daughters. So I can’t see how these other people could be cousins and their children. Why is there no mention of any daughters before Seth was born?
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Typically, the geneologies of Scripture only mention those who actually inherit. Daughters very seldom inherited, in the Old Testament.
Wouldn’t Cain instead of saying “all who see me will kill me” he would have said “my cousins and their children would kill me if they see me,”
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From Cain’s point of view, what would be the difference? Everyone living in the world was a relative of his, in some way.
 
jmcrae said:
The whole Bible is full of duplicate accounts of the same thing, with different viewpoints. We even have four Gospels to tell the stories of Jesus from a variety of points of view.
The same writer having 2 view points dont seem logical to me? The Gospels are from 4 different writers not the same one so different view points would be logical.

His brothers and sisters, and nieces and nephews.

His wife (probably a sister, niece, or second-cousin).

Keep in mind that the story of Cain and Abel takes place 130 years after Adam and Eve got thrown out of the Garden - plenty of time for Adam and Eve to have had other children, and for those other children to have left home and started families elsewhere.
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Where does it say it took place when Adam was 130 years old. That is when Seth was born. Cain and Able were the first 2 born unless there were others born before them if so then why aren’t the mentioned?
 
rev_kevin said:
There is no mention of any children until Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born who was a replacement for Able Then after Seth was born Adam lived another 800 years and had other sons and daughters. So I can’t see how these other people could be cousins and their children. Why is there no mention of any daughters before Seth was born? Wouldn’t Cain instead of saying “all who see me will kill me” he would have said “my cousins and their children would kill me if they see me,”
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Scripture does not give us all the details. That is a question we can ask God when we see Him. 🙂

We get the solution though in another way. Adam and Eve were our first parents so all humans are descendants.
 
jmcrae said:
Typically, the geneologies of Scripture only mention those who actually inherit. Daughters very seldom inherited, in the Old Testament.
But were talking about the first people on earth. What was there to inherit? The only ones born were females before Cain and Able. Wouldn’t the females be mentioned since they would be the first ones born? How would they reproduce if no males were born?

From Cain’s point of view, what would be the difference? Everyone living in the world was a relative of his, in some way.
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Or maby because they weren’t his relatives.
 
jmcrae said:
This would mean that there could at some point in history have been human beings around who were not descended from Adam and Eve. Yet, we are required to believe that every human being who has ever lived was a descendant of Adam and Eve - this is what it means, to be a human being, is to be a descendant of Adam and Eve.

Since Jesus died on the Cross for “Adam” (the descendants of Adam), does this mean that there could be human beings who cannot be regenerated in Christ? Could there be Church members getting baptized who cannot be washed clean of sin, because they are not descendants of Adam, but of someone else?
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Catholics may be required to believe this, but many Christians are not. It is a problematic teaching, IMO. Taking Genesis literally causes many problems, IMO.
 
larkin31 said:
Catholics may be required to believe this, but many Christians are not. It is a problematic teaching, IMO. Taking Genesis literally causes many problems, IMO.
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Doesn’t have to just mean Adam and Eve literally, could also stand for the first “aware” human beings.
 
Again I ask, what has been the constant understanding and teaching of the Catholic Church? Do you have a date it changed and a Magisterial document?
 
buffalo said:
Scripture does not give us all the details. That is a question we can ask God when we see Him. 🙂

We get the solution though in another way. Adam and Eve were our first parents so all humans are descendants.
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Whats the other way?
 
Pawel_J said:
I did not know that human cloning had been carried out as early as in the times of Adam and Eve.
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:confused: I’m not sure what you’re talking about. How does cloning enter into it? Awan was a daughter of Adam and Eve; not a clone of anyone.

I glanced through the relevant passage in the Book of Jubilees, and although Awan was not listed as Cain’s twin, she was certainly his sister, according to what was written there. He was born in the first year, and she was born in the fifth year, according to the geneology, so they were 4-5 years apart.

It’s perfectly possible for Awan to have travelled with others of their brothers and sisters to the Land of Nod for the purpose of spreading the human race throughout the world, in obedience to God’s commandment. If Awan was the eldest of those who left home, she would have taken on a caregiver role, which would explain why she found no husband among her younger siblings - hence, she was still without a husband when Cain arrived, and then she could have married him, since he was older than her. (I’m just speculating, here.)
 
jmcrae said:
:confused: I’m not sure what you’re talking about. How does cloning enter into it? Awan was a daughter of Adam and Eve; not a clone of anyone.
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I was referring to the information about Cain marrying his twin sister. A child born from twin, monozygotic parents would be in fact a kind of clone, genetically identical with its parents.
 
jmcrae said:
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It’s perfectly possible for Awan to have travelled with others of their brothers and sisters to the Land of Nod for the purpose of spreading the human race throughout the world, in obedience to God’s commandment. If Awan was the eldest of those who left home, she would have taken on a caregiver role, which would explain why she found no husband among her younger siblings - hence, she was still without a husband when Cain arrived, and then she could have married him, since he was older than her. (I’m just speculating, here.)
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What is the aim to debate if the events described in the OT or the Book of … Something were real or not. Those descriptions were intended for people of that time and writtne by people of that time. They had very narrow knowledge of the world, biology, genetics etc. In relation to today’s people and their knowledge, they were like little children. I think we cannot take seriously, word by word, stories written for children. To us, contemporary people, it is important to see the general, religious and theological sense of what has been written and not the historically unimportant details, which are very hard to believe.
 
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