Adam and Eve : Real people or allegorical myth?

[Deconi]

What I’m trying to point out here is that if the bible is taken literaly then Eve birthed 3 sons, Cain, Able, and Seth. so, if there was only Adam, Cain, and Seth, and Eve only birthed 3 sons, there is no way humanity could continue.

Clearly, they weren’t the only children to Adam since we know that human reproduction requires pairings of male and female. We do know that Adam lived to about a thousand years and Abraham to about a hundred. So we deduce that the gene-pool had detriorated even in Adam’s life time down to Abe.

When Cain was ‘expelled’ he was marked with the mark of Cain, which is pointless unless there was an ‘audience’ or populace that would see it! In fact, from memory, Cain was cast out to where ‘others’ of less human morals were inhabitants.

We can deduce from that, that Eve and her daughters and granddaughters were fertile, as one would expect of perfect specimen from a genepool quickly deteriorating.

Many dismiss Genesis as being not a science book, but it requires ALL of the human sciences to decipher it!

I remember as a child wondering how God could possibly just speak and there was light!..and then create the sun of the 4th day! But now I can walk into a room and clap or say “Lights On!” and the lights come on! It’s in the preparation and hardware set up!

God’s ‘preparations’ prior to Creation is not detailed in Scriptures, but we do know there was much done BEFORE the record commenced because we have been revealed that BEFORE the world was made, The Word was with God! We also know that the Angels must have an origin account, yet unknown to us! How long were Adam and Eve in the Garden BEFORE their encounter with the talking serpent? Wisdom, also is said to have been before the world was formed; etc etc etc…

A literal interpretation is more valid than ‘musings’ based on incomplete data and knowledge! Once you ‘understand’ God, then he isn’t God anymore, is He? No fear though, for we cannot completely know Him in this realm!

 

[Gaber]

Anything…
ANYTHING …
… but it cant possibly be the story on the page, right?

Love your signature line!

Not quite sure what you mean… Are you an artist? But I’m guessing that you are taking what I said as a denial of the story written as is. Well, no. What I’m saying is that there are different sorts of writing. In the genre of myth, which, by the way, is not in this context a word for fabrication, the intention dual: to protect the innocent and to promote the journey of discovery of the inquisitive. That is done by the same means, the story itself. And it is done by means of the levels of interpretation of the story. We know, for instance, that the parables of Jesus have at least three levels of meaning. Perhaps more, if you take the much discounted Mark 4:33,34 into account.

So when one starts to look at things, they are less black and white than dogma and teachings would superficially indicate. A whole host of disciplines can be brought to bear on a question which on the surface appears, like quicksand to be a solid yes/no situation. If it was that simple, there wouldn’t be these fora, multiple religions, and the Magesterium. which itself goes through process, mostly of extrapolation.

 

[johnnyjones]

Couldn’t the fall simply be the point at which man reached the necessary level of intelligence to go against gods will?

No real Adam, no real Jesus. The only way Christ can be the true messiah is based on the bloodline. This is theology 101. Adam is in Christs bloodline (Luke 3:38).A Mythological person would invalidate Christ as messiah. That is just one example of the necessity of Adam.

This CAN NOT be refuted.

 

[Gaber]

No real Adam, no real Jesus. The only way Christ can be the true messiah is based on the bloodline. This is theology 101. Adam is in Christs bloodline (Luke 3:38).A Mythological person would invalidate Christ as messiah. That is just one example of the necessity of Adam.

This CAN NOT be refuted.

And that has even a smidge of importance why? Are you a Mormon?

 

[rbarcia]

What I’m trying to point out here is that if the bible is taken literaly then Eve birthed 3 sons, Cain, Able, and Seth. so, if there was only Adam, Cain, and Seth, and Eve only birthed 3 sons, there is no way humanity could continue.

Adam and Eve had more than 3 children according to the Bible. See below. Therefore it is not far fetched that Seth and Cain (Abel had died) reproduced with their sisters early in history. Abraham married his half sister.

Gen 5:3-4
3 And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. 4 After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters.

 

[johnnyjones]

And that has even a smidge of importance why? Are you a Mormon?

Are you kidding me? Maybe Christ doesn’t need to be the Son Of David either
Lineage is everything in scripture! Pure Christianity 101 brother. Be careful of the titles you throw around.

 

[johnnyjones]

Anything…
ANYTHING …
… but it cant possibly be the story on the page, right?

 

[buffalo]

Whilst scepticism is healthy, even more so you should be **more attentive **to scientific discoveries and claims based on them!

Scientific truth is truth and ALL truth stems from and belong to God who is the Source of Truth.

Man does not have the capacity to find truth by himself. His reasoning is limited. Science by its own definition has a limited say on the universe. Science is very provisional.

 

[Gaber]

Man does not have the capacity to find truth by himself. His reasoning is limited. Science by its own definition has a limited say on the universe. Science is very provisional.

So you have the “A Few Good Men” approach to Truth?

 

[rossum]

Science by its own definition has a limited say on the universe. Science is very provisional.

I would rather say, “Science is provisional”, without the “very”. That is part of science’s power, it is prepared to alter itself to incorporate new discoveries about reality. If you attempt to retain obsolete beliefs, at variance with reality, then you end up like the flat-earthers and geocentrists.

Science is aware that reality is the basis of all knowledge about reality, and that we currently do not have full knowledge of reality. Hence the need to adjust and always remember that science is provisional.

Flat-earthers are not prepared to adjust and have paid the price for their failure. The shape of the earth is well within the ambit of science, and on such questions science has an excellent record of success.

rossum

 

[buffalo]

I would rather say, “Science is provisional”, without the “very”. That is part of science’s power, it is prepared to alter itself to incorporate new discoveries about reality. If you attempt to retain obsolete beliefs, at variance with reality, then you end up like the flat-earthers and geocentrists.

Science is aware that reality is the basis of all knowledge about reality, and that we currently do not have full knowledge of reality. Hence the need to adjust and always remember that science is provisional.

Flat-earthers are not prepared to adjust and have paid the price for their failure. The shape of the earth is well within the ambit of science, and on such questions science has an excellent record of success.

rossum

You full well know the flat earth myth.

 

[rossum]

You full well know the flat earth myth.

Did many educated people in the past know that the earth was a sphere? Yes.

Do a few people today hold to a rigidly literal interpretation of scripture and insist, despite all the evidence, that the earth is flat? Yes.

It is the second group that I was talking about, not the first.

rossum

 

[johnnyjones]

Did many educated people in the past know that the earth was a sphere? Yes.

Do a few people today hold to a rigidly literal interpretation of scripture and insist, despite all the evidence, that the earth is flat? Yes.

It is the second group that I was talking about, not the first.

rossum

Typical evidence shows that a person beaten, crucified, pronounced dead and laid in a sealed tomb for three days can’t come back from the dead either. But that literally happened. Deny Genesis, deny all miracles.

 

[rossum]

Typical evidence shows that a person beaten, crucified, pronounced dead and laid in a sealed tomb for three days can’t come back from the dead either. But that literally happened. Deny Genesis, deny all miracles.

I do not deny miracles. The Bodhisattva Vimalakirti fed 80,000 people from a single bowl of rice. It says so in scripture: Vimalakirtinirdeas sutra, chapter ten.

As a Buddhist I do not have a problem with people coming back from the dead, almost everyone does. The point is not to come back.

As I said near the beginning of this thread. Science has confirmed that all humans alive today are descended from a single couple. Where it disagrees with the literal interpretation of Genesis is that there were a lot of other people alive at the same time. The total human population has never fallen as low as two, or eight for that matter.

There is more than one way to interpret Genesis, and the Catholic Church allows it to be interpreted in different ways.

rossum

 

[Hunter24]

Deny Genesis, deny all miracles.

This aproach is exactly why so many people dont take the fundamentalists seriously. How on earth is it impossible for the earth to form over millions of years and the Jesus to do all of his stuff? People don’t deny a literal genesis because it sounds crazy, they deny it because we have proof it didn’t happen. Just because God could of done it in seven days dosn’t mean he did. I could have gone to the gas station this morning for breakfast pizza, it’s well within my power, but I didn’t.

I don’t understand why people have such a hard time accepting that the bible is a spiritual guide, not a history text book.

 

[johnnyjones]

This aproach is exactly why so many people dont take the fundamentalists seriously. How on earth is it impossible for the earth to form over millions of years and the Jesus to do all of his stuff? People don’t deny a literal genesis because it sounds crazy, they deny it because we have proof it didn’t happen. Just because God could of done it in seven days dosn’t mean he did. I could have gone to the gas station this morning for breakfast pizza, it’s well within my power, but I didn’t.

I don’t understand why people have such a hard time accepting that the bible is a spiritual guide, not a history text book.

You can pick the miracles you want from scripture,. What you as a non Christian may fail to see is that Jesus Christ has a genelogy that includes Adam (from Genesis) in the New Testament. Adam has to real, and God created him just the way he said along with the Earth.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

evolution happened, but somewhere along the line, adam and eve screwed it up for all of us.

Genesis would be hard for anyone to explain especially since back then they did not know about evolution.

Lets just say God chose to make us and chose for everything to become the way it is through the process of evolution.

What stuns me is how dumb eve and adam were. Wouldn’t she know that animals can’t talk?

Heck I dont even know anymore

 

[johnnyjones]

evolution happened, but somewhere along the line, adam and eve screwed it up for all of us.

Genesis would be hard for anyone to explain especially since back then they did not know about evolution.

Lets just say God chose to make us and chose for everything to become the way it is through the process of evolution.

What stuns me is how dumb eve and adam were. Wouldn’t she know that animals can’t talk?

Heck I dont even know anymore

Adaptation happened. Believing that a Zebra was once a frog through species to species evolution, you might as well believe that men rode flame spouting dragons.

If you believe in Christ than you have to believe in Adam because the geanelogy says so. Unless you believe that Adam was real but God put him into a fabled world and God refuses to tell us how he made really made the world.

 

[buffalo]

evolution happened, but somewhere along the line, adam and eve screwed it up for all of us.

Genesis would be hard for anyone to explain especially since back then they did not know about evolution.

Lets just say God chose to make us and chose for everything to become the way it is through the process of evolution.

What stuns me is how dumb eve and adam were. Wouldn’t she know that animals can’t talk?

Heck I dont even know anymore

Are you kidding.

It could go like this:

In the beginning was an animal. The animal turned into Adam.

Dumb? they had preternatural gifts that we do not. Can the devil talk through a possessed person?

 

[kempo1]

If evolution were true when did or does it stop. I have nwver seen a monkey turn in to a human or any other animal evove to something else. I mean really it just to me isnt logical at all.