Adam and Eve : Real people or allegorical myth?

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No real Adam, no real Jesus. The only way Christ can be the true messiah is based on the bloodline. This is theology 101. Adam is in Christs bloodline (Luke 3:38).A Mythological person would invalidate Christ as messiah. That is just one example of the necessity of Adam.

This CAN NOT be refuted.
I totally agree with you. :yup:

Some simply chose not to believe - and that’s fine IMHO. Our salvation comes through faith in Jesus Christ, not faith in the book of Genesis.

To the poster who said we should just ditch the Adam & Eve story to draw in more atheists. Oh puleez. I am certain Adam & Eve are the tip of the iceberg for atheists. What else would we need to dismiss to make God easier for them to stomach?
 
Adam and eve are real people it was already proven that every human on earth has a genetic link. When those that claim to be christian and say you dont have to believe in them they pick and choose what parts of the bible they believe. That to me is not christianity. The bible is not seperate stories where you pick and choose the parts you want and dont want to believe. The Holy Bible is one story! It is one truth! THAT TRUTH IS JESUS CHRIST!!!
 
If evolution were true when did or does it stop.
It is true, and it hasn’t stopped. Every time an insect evolves resistance to an insecticide,that is evolution.
I have nwver seen a monkey turn in to a human or any other animal evove to something else.
Why would you expect that to happen? Evolution is slow, working over many generations. We can only see evolution in fast breeding populations, like bacteria or insects. Primates take a lot longer to evolve visible differences, though there are a few invisible ones.
I mean really it just to me isnt logical at all.🤷
Which of your parents are you genetically identical to? It is extremely logical that you are not identical to your parents, you have changed very slightly. An accumulation of those small changes over many generations makes a large change. Perfectly logical.

rossum
 
It is true, and it hasn’t stopped. Every time an insect evolves resistance to an insecticide,that is evolution.
That is not evolving its building an immunity.

Why would you expect that to happen? Evolution is slow, working over many generations. We can only see evolution in fast breeding populations, like bacteria or insects. Primates take a lot longer to evolve visible differences, though there are a few invisible ones.
So in your view there are different levels of evolution?

Which of your parents are you genetically identical to? It is extremely logical that you are not identical to your parents, you have changed very slightly. An accumulation of those small changes over many generations makes a large change. Perfectly logical.
That is not evolving it is genetic make up. I am 40 years old and have not evolved in to something else. My spirit has but nothing physical!!
rossum
 
Did not do previous post right but if you read it you will see my responses
 
If you believe in Christ than you have to believe in Adam because the geanelogy says so. Unless you believe that Adam was real but God put him into a fabled world and God refuses to tell us how he made really made the world.
I spent 13 years in a catholic school and the only time Jesus family tree was brought up it either pertained to David or was to show proof that the bible is not to be taken literaly. How does Jesus ancestry effect anything he did? Apart from the promise to David I dont see how genealogy is at all relivant here
 
So in your view there are different levels of evolution
It takes longer for Humans and other mammals to evolve than insects or bacteria because Human have a much longer life cycle. Obviousely you do not understand the science behind evolution which is why you think it is illogical. Evolution happens over extended periods of time and in all but the rarest cases does not happen durring an individuals life time. The only time an individual evolves themselves is if their genetic code is changed, either by radiation or something similar. (or scientists in some cases)

So hopefully you atleast understand that you have half of your genes from your father and half from your mother. Now these are random as evidenced by the fact you are not identical to your siblings, but may look very similar.

Now the idea of evolution is that over a long period of time the traits best suited to survive, will. So if today the earths temperature began to fall, and fall a little more every year for a few thousand years untill the earth was in another ice age, certain animals would survive better.

Let’s take squirrels. Obviousely the thickness of a squirrels coat differs from one to another, and in this slowly cooling world, a thicker one will help a squirrel survive. So, over time the squirrels with thick coats will survive to reproductive age more often than those with thinner coats, this different survival rate can be as minute as let’s say 70% to 69.995% surviving to breeding age, because we are talking about a very long time here. Now because the thick coat squirrel survives slightly more often and has slightly more children, it will over centuries and millennia eventually spread its genes to many other squirrels, and squirrels will survive more often because of the thicker coat.

Now let’s say this ice age only effects one region, or a region is isolated from others. Lets say the state of Iowa. So for some geographical reason these squirrels are unable to get out of Iowa, after several centuries they will have much thicker fur than squirrels in the surrounding states, which did not have an ice age. So now because the squirrels of one area have adapted differently than others and now we have two different species, the common Red squirrel, and the thick haired Iowan squirrel. Over time they will evolve further untill they may not even be squirrels anymore.

This is how evolution works. It doesn’t happen overnight but it does happen. It’s one of sciences most strongly supported theories and is taught to children all over the world. If the children of the world can understand this, hopefully you can too.
 
That is not evolving its building an immunity.
The standard scientific definition of evolution is, “changes in gene frequency in a population over time”. Since the immunity is found in the insects’ genes, that is by definition, evolution.
So in your view there are different levels of evolution?
No. All evolution is changes in the population’s genome. Some of those changes are effectively invisible on the surface, other changes are not. Changes tend to accumulate over time, so over longer times we tend to see larger changes.
That is not evolving it is genetic make up.
Individuals do not evolve, populations do. You and your parents form a very small population, whose genetic makeup changes over time. When you were conceived, half of each parent’s genes went from 50% of the population to 67%, while the other half of their genes went from 50% to 33%. That is a change in gene frequency in a population over time. That is evolution.

Evolution is a population phenomenon. Individuals reproduce, with varying degrees of success. It is the population which evolves as the genes of the individuals which make up the population change their relative frequencies.

rossum
 
I spent 13 years in a catholic school and the only time Jesus family tree was brought up it either pertained to David or was to show proof that the bible is not to be taken literaly. How does Jesus ancestry effect anything he did? Apart from the promise to David I dont see how genealogy is at all relivant here
Right, the seed of David. Guess what, if Jesus isn’t the seed of David, he isn’t the messiah. The geneology of a person is everything in scripture, it defines who they are and their relevance. Catholics believe the bible, just because you didn’t hear it in catholic school it doesn’t mean it isn’t a necessity. I went to catholic school and didn’t always here about geneologies.

The bible says Jesus came from Adam, what more do you want? Invalidate Adam, invalidate Jesus. No can do. The geneology of Jesus has ALWAYS been taken literally. That’s why Jesus was called the Son Of David, for proof of divinity, not to prove the bible as non literal. You might as well dismiss that Jesus was the son of Joseph and Mary , thats not important , right? :rolleyes:
 
If evolution were true when did or does it stop. I have nwver seen a monkey turn in to a human or any other animal evove to something else. I mean really it just to me isnt logical at all.🤷
Monkeys went down a different path. They are our cousins. We have a common ancestor.
 
Monkeys went down a different path. They are our cousins. We have a common ancestor.
Christ is from the lineage of Adam, he talked about Abel, Genesis, Noah. Very important issues from the days of old. He never talked about our ape heritage or a half simian man that evolved. If creation happened different than the Genesis account, he certainly would have clued us into the important issue of our origins.
 
I know you guys believe in the monkey theory or whatever but i believe in creation and that is it for me. May sound nuts to you guys but 2 rocks smashing together and bam here is everything sounds a little more nuts to me . Same thing like i said beforeabout the evolution theory we havent seen 2 giant tocks smash together and create another earthen planet and race of people. Not logical to me and i will never claim that the chimp at the zoo is my long lost cousin joe!!!🤷
 
If creation happened different than the Genesis account, he certainly would have clued us into the important issue of our origins.
Why the Bible is not a science textbook…

SCENE: Inside a tent in the desert. There is a small table and a
chair in the middle of the tent. Some baggage is stacked at the back.

Characters: GOD invisible and omnipresent. MOSES offstage.

MOSES enters the tent.

MOSES: “What a day, if I ever see another piece of sand I swear that
I am goi…”

GOD: “Moses!”

MOSES: (surprised) “Yes Lord!”

GOD: “Get pen, ink and parchment.”

MOSES goes to the baggage and fetches a pen, ink and parchment. He
takes them to the table and sits down.

GOD: “Begin writing.”

MOSES: “Yes Lord.”

GOD: “In the beginning I created a quantum fluctuation at the
hyper-sub-quark level …”

MOSES: (interrupting) “Sorry Lord. Was that spelled K-W-A-H-K, and
what does it mean?”

GOD: “Hmmm. I see a problem. Humans will not discover
hyper-sub-quarks for another 9,728 years. Perhaps something less
cosmological might work better. Moses, begin a new sheet of
parchment.”

MOSES picks up a new piece of parchment and prepares to write.

GOD: “In the beginning I created deoxyribonucleic acid …”

MOSES: (interrupting) “Sorry Lord, but could you spell that please?”

GOD: “Me dammit! Why did I make these idiots so Me dammned stupid!”

GOD touches a finger to Moses’ forehead.

MOSES: “Ah, now I understand. Thank you for giving me all that
knowledge Lord. Unfortunately I see a problem. If I write
‘deoxyribonucleic acid’ then none of the other Israelites will know
what the he… heck I have written about unless you touch all their
foreheads as well.”

GOD: “Hmmm. A good point Moses. Let me think about it for a few
thousand years.”

MOSES: “But what do I do while I am waiting?”

GOD: “Never mind, I have finished thinking.”

MOSES: “That was never thousands of years.”

GOD: “Do you doubt Me! Time is Mine to command. It is subject to
Me, not Me to it.”

MOSES: “Sorry Lord.”

GOD: "Start a new piece of parchment.

MOSES picks up a new piece of parchment and prepares to write.

GOD: “In the beginning I created the heavens and the earth …”

CUT: Fade to black

rossum
 
Sounds fictional to me but could win a caanes film fest award with the other s.p. films.
 
Why the Bible is not a science textbook…

SCENE: Inside a tent in the desert. There is a small table and a
chair in the middle of the tent. Some baggage is stacked at the back.

Characters: GOD invisible and omnipresent. MOSES offstage.

MOSES enters the tent.

MOSES: “What a day, if I ever see another piece of sand I swear that
I am goi…”

GOD: “Moses!”

MOSES: (surprised) “Yes Lord!”

GOD: “Get pen, ink and parchment.”

MOSES goes to the baggage and fetches a pen, ink and parchment. He
takes them to the table and sits down.

GOD: “Begin writing.”

MOSES: “Yes Lord.”

GOD: “In the beginning I created a quantum fluctuation at the
hyper-sub-quark level …”

MOSES: (interrupting) “Sorry Lord. Was that spelled K-W-A-H-K, and
what does it mean?”

GOD: “Hmmm. I see a problem. Humans will not discover
hyper-sub-quarks for another 9,728 years. Perhaps something less
cosmological might work better. Moses, begin a new sheet of
parchment.”

MOSES picks up a new piece of parchment and prepares to write.

GOD: “In the beginning I created deoxyribonucleic acid …”

MOSES: (interrupting) “Sorry Lord, but could you spell that please?”

GOD: “Me dammit! Why did I make these idiots so Me dammned stupid!”

GOD touches a finger to Moses’ forehead.

MOSES: “Ah, now I understand. Thank you for giving me all that
knowledge Lord. Unfortunately I see a problem. If I write
‘deoxyribonucleic acid’ then none of the other Israelites will know
what the he… heck I have written about unless you touch all their
foreheads as well.”

GOD: “Hmmm. A good point Moses. Let me think about it for a few
thousand years.”

MOSES: “But what do I do while I am waiting?”

GOD: “Never mind, I have finished thinking.”

MOSES: “That was never thousands of years.”

GOD: “Do you doubt Me! Time is Mine to command. It is subject to
Me, not Me to it.”

MOSES: “Sorry Lord.”

GOD: "Start a new piece of parchment.

MOSES picks up a new piece of parchment and prepares to write.

GOD: “In the beginning I created the heavens and the earth …”

CUT: Fade to black

rossum
I think this is more to “the way it was” than what we have in scripture…how we might re-write Genesis today with our completely foreign cosmological understanding from the writer of Genesis should provide a semblance of an answer…the writer of Genesis was writing about a cosmological event he barely understood within the limited scope of myth…for the writer…the earth was a flat disc or square which rested upon “the deep” with a canopy covering of blue thru which the stars of heaven shone thru…he had no concept of those stars being distant suns around which spherical worlds such as the one he existed upon had NO concept of any other cosmos. Day and evening existed outside the rotation of the earth around the sun…the moon was seen as a secondary light which shone without the benefit of the suns reflected light upon it’s surface as it rotated a sperical earth…not a flat piece of earth resting upon a watery deep.

Genesis is also a “refutation” of the Caananite understanding of creation…where Murduk and Tiamet played a part…and had it’s final “draft” some 8-10 centuries after the original story was told sometime after the Exile.

It is not history…it is religious myth writen to answer primitive man’s questions of where we came from and why there is suffering upon the earth…a Semetic “Pandora’s Box” type myth.
 
Why the Bible is not a science textbook…

SCENE: Inside a tent in the desert. There is a small table and a
chair in the middle of the tent. Some baggage is stacked at the back.

Characters: GOD invisible and omnipresent. MOSES offstage.

MOSES enters the tent.

MOSES: “What a day, if I ever see another piece of sand I swear that
I am goi…”

GOD: “Moses!”

MOSES: (surprised) “Yes Lord!”

GOD: “Get pen, ink and parchment.”

MOSES goes to the baggage and fetches a pen, ink and parchment. He
takes them to the table and sits down.

GOD: “Begin writing.”

MOSES: “Yes Lord.”

GOD: “In the beginning I created a quantum fluctuation at the
hyper-sub-quark level …”

MOSES: (interrupting) “Sorry Lord. Was that spelled K-W-A-H-K, and
what does it mean?”

GOD: “Hmmm. I see a problem. Humans will not discover
hyper-sub-quarks for another 9,728 years. Perhaps something less
cosmological might work better. Moses, begin a new sheet of
parchment.”

MOSES picks up a new piece of parchment and prepares to write.

GOD: “In the beginning I created deoxyribonucleic acid …”

MOSES: (interrupting) “Sorry Lord, but could you spell that please?”

GOD: “Me dammit! Why did I make these idiots so Me dammned stupid!”

GOD touches a finger to Moses’ forehead.

MOSES: “Ah, now I understand. Thank you for giving me all that
knowledge Lord. Unfortunately I see a problem. If I write
‘deoxyribonucleic acid’ then none of the other Israelites will know
what the he… heck I have written about unless you touch all their
foreheads as well.”

GOD: “Hmmm. A good point Moses. Let me think about it for a few
thousand years.”

MOSES: “But what do I do while I am waiting?”

GOD: “Never mind, I have finished thinking.”

MOSES: “That was never thousands of years.”

GOD: “Do you doubt Me! Time is Mine to command. It is subject to
Me, not Me to it.”

MOSES: “Sorry Lord.”

GOD: "Start a new piece of parchment.

MOSES picks up a new piece of parchment and prepares to write.

GOD: “In the beginning I created the heavens and the earth …”

CUT: Fade to black

rossum
God deals in reality, not fantasy as you have a flair for. You cling to the idea that people of biblical times would never understand anything too complex. If Jesus was here now and rose from the dead or made a blind man see I wouldn’t understand it. Jesus knew people wouldn’t understand who he was (that’s why he was crucified). It didn’t stop him from telling them.

If we had some other origin, Christ would have expalined evolution in a parable or just layed it out. Who we are and how we got here is a huge matter and you want to say the explaination God gives is a fairytale. Too many excuses for not believing Genesis.
 
Christ is from the lineage of Adam, he talked about Abel, Genesis, Noah. Very important issues from the days of old. He never talked about our ape heritage or a half simian man that evolved. If creation happened different than the Genesis account, he certainly would have clued us into the important issue of our origins.
Ok so its obvious you don’t believe in evolution. Why not? Because its not in the bible?

Alot of things aren’t in the bible. 1 + 1 = 2 isnt in the bible.

how can you deny evolution with all of the evidence we have of it?
 
Ok so its obvious you don’t believe in evolution. Why not? Because its not in the bible?

Alot of things aren’t in the bible. 1 + 1 = 2 isnt in the bible.

how can you deny evolution with all of the evidence we have of it?
I believe in the creation account because IT IS in the bible, and evolution isn’t. 1+1= 2 is a universal truth, it doesn’t need to be explained. I believe in adaptation, not species to species evolution. I believe God created it all instantly like He said, just as I believe the resurrection was real because He said it. The doctrines that make our faith are in the bible. Remember scripture can not contradict tradition.

And by the same faith I believe the resurrection, I believe Genesis. To give added credence to Genesis, Jesus quoted it, and not as a parable. His lineage is from Adam as is necessary for his real existence. The Catholic Church teaches a literal Adam.

The evolution model is foolish and has one leaping flaw in it after the other. You need so much crazy logic to accept it. I can’t figure out why those who believe in it have so hard a time with a 6 day creation given the odds for it to arsise.
 
It is true, and it hasn’t stopped. Every time an insect evolves resistance to an insecticide,that is evolution.

Why would you expect that to happen? Evolution is slow, working over many generations. We can only see evolution in fast breeding populations, like bacteria or insects. Primates take a lot longer to evolve visible differences, though there are a few invisible ones.

Which of your parents are you genetically identical to? It is extremely logical that you are not identical to your parents, you have changed very slightly. An accumulation of those small changes over many generations makes a large change. Perfectly logical.

rossum
That is adaptation.

Every generation loses some functionality because of deleterious mutations. We are degenerating.
 
It takes longer for Humans and other mammals to evolve than insects or bacteria because Human have a much longer life cycle. Obviousely you do not understand the science behind evolution which is why you think it is illogical. Evolution happens over extended periods of time and in all but the rarest cases does not happen durring an individuals life time. The only time an individual evolves themselves is if their genetic code is changed, either by radiation or something similar. (or scientists in some cases)

So hopefully you atleast understand that you have half of your genes from your father and half from your mother. Now these are random as evidenced by the fact you are not identical to your siblings, but may look very similar.

Now the idea of evolution is that over a long period of time the traits best suited to survive, will. So if today the earths temperature began to fall, and fall a little more every year for a few thousand years untill the earth was in another ice age, certain animals would survive better.

Let’s take squirrels. Obviousely the thickness of a squirrels coat differs from one to another, and in this slowly cooling world, a thicker one will help a squirrel survive. So, over time the squirrels with thick coats will survive to reproductive age more often than those with thinner coats, this different survival rate can be as minute as let’s say 70% to 69.995% surviving to breeding age, because we are talking about a very long time here. Now because the thick coat squirrel survives slightly more often and has slightly more children, it will over centuries and millennia eventually spread its genes to many other squirrels, and squirrels will survive more often because of the thicker coat.

Now let’s say this ice age only effects one region, or a region is isolated from others. Lets say the state of Iowa. So for some geographical reason these squirrels are unable to get out of Iowa, after several centuries they will have much thicker fur than squirrels in the surrounding states, which did not have an ice age. So now because the squirrels of one area have adapted differently than others and now we have two different species, the common Red squirrel, and the thick haired Iowan squirrel. Over time they will evolve further untill they may not even be squirrels anymore.

This is how evolution works. It doesn’t happen overnight but it does happen. It’s one of sciences most strongly supported theories and is taught to children all over the world. If the children of the world can understand this, hopefully you can too.
They are still squirrels.
 
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