Adam and eve.

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You’re off track in believing that some humans existed that were not descended from Adam and Eve. That is where you are off track. ALL humans descend from Adam and Eve.
Right – as Pope Benedict might put it, all members of Homo sapiens are descended from the first human group – whom we symbolically designate “Adam ad Eve” – that originated in East Africa around 150,000 years ago.

StAnastasia
 
Right – as Pope Benedict might put it, all members of Homo sapiens are descended from the first human group – whom we symbolically designate “Adam ad Eve” – that originated in East Africa around 150,000 years ago.

StAnastasia
Actual Catholic teaching is the thrust of this thread.

Please refer to

Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, ISBN: 1-57455-109-4

Or use this handy link

Blessings,
granny

Human life has been created by God.
 
Actual Catholic teaching is the thrust of this thread.
…Human life has been created by God.
A catechism that refuses to refuses to deal with scientific reality is a sign of a church no longer in contact with the world, a church destined to grow less and less relevant to those to whom it should be reaching out.
 
A catechism that refuses to refuses to deal with scientific reality is a sign of a church no longer in contact with the world, a church destined to grow less and less relevant to those to whom it should be reaching out.
“Reality” is one thing. “Scientific reality” has become so driven by ideology (global warming as one example) that it increasingly deviates from “reality.” Putting your faith in “scientific reality” is a big mistake.

Just as it is not the role of an individual to church-shop to find one that agrees with him, it is not the role of the Catechism or the Church to become relevant by better appealing to one’s own disordered desires or pride.

You think that science knows everything (or at least enough to rule out a literal Adam and Eve.) And it appears that you think it is your job to teach that the Catechism is wrong and to get it fixed. Temptations to disobedience come at us from all sides, tailored to our weaknesses. Those persons inclined to believe in the inerrancy of scientific truth no doubt have many temptations to disbelieve magesterial teaching on many subjects.

.
 
“Reality” is one thing. “Scientific reality” has become so driven by ideology (global warming as one example) that it increasingly deviates from “reality.” Putting your faith in “scientific reality” is a big mistake.

Just as it is not the role of an individual to church-shop to find one that agrees with him, it is not the role of the Catechism or the Church to become relevant by better appealing to one’s own disordered desires or pride.

You think that science knows everything (or at least enough to rule out a literal Adam and Eve.) And it appears that you think it is your job to teach that the Catechism is wrong and to get it fixed. Temptations to disobedience come at us from all sides, tailored to our weaknesses. Those persons inclined to believe in the inerrancy of scientific truth no doubt have many temptations to disbelieve magesterial teaching on many subjects.

.
Your claim is the Catechism is obsolete? It is time for you to tell the Vatican of this.
 
Speaking of reality in regard to the real parents of humanity…😃

The chief challenge to current scientists is how to understand the reality of living human beings.

By all means, the realm of science is that of the material and physical world. But that does not automatically eliminate the immaterial or spiritual realm from inquiry as if it were non-existent. Ah, one says. The immaterial cannot be put under a microscope. True. But that does not exclude the reality of spiritual existence which can be known by the tools of reason, self reflection, logical evaluation, and analytical thought.

Science is limited because for the most part it is based on the philosophy that all reality is material or matter. But – the reality of reality is that human nature is uniquely different from every other bit of material or energy in the universe. Human nature is rational/corporeal, spirit/matter, soul/body.

The reality is that there is only one species which was so loved by God, that the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity became human in order to reconcile humanity with its Creator forever in eternal love. It is because of the unique unity of the human species, that the supreme gift of Christ’s death on the cross is the sacrifice for all for all time.

Seriously, the assurance that all humans benefit from Christ’s Gift of Salvation is the fact that we all descended from the original person who committed the original sin which broke the original bond of friendship with God.

Because human nature’s primary characteristics are distinct from other species, its origin would have to be distinct. To retain the distinct primary characteristics through procreation, generation to generation, would necessitate that all would have to descend from the same true, fully complete humans who are the parents of all human beings.

The reality is that Adam and Eve are the real sole parents of the human race.

Blessings,
granny

These two websites contain TV ads about Catholicism. The first is from one of the Dioceses which is using them. The second is general information.

www.CatholicsComeHomeRockford.org
www.CatholicsComeHome.org
 
Getting to know Adam, ourselves, and sin

Sin is present in human history. Ignoring it doesn’t make it go away. It also doesn’t work to call sin a mistake, a psychological weakness, a developmental flaw or the necessary consequence of an inadequate social structure, and so on. Sin is not some subjective idea according to what is relative or utilitarian in an individual community. (CCC 386-387)
Facing the truth about sin is one step of many which can help us to understand ourselves.

To understand what sin is, it is necessary to recognize the profound relationship of ourselves to God. The relationship of the created to the Creator. God created human nature as a unification of soul and body, spirit and matter, rational and corporeal so that we could share, by knowledge and love (the intellect and will of our spiritual soul) in God’s own life. This gives the human species an unique place in the universe. It is possible for us to walk in the friendship of God on this earth and to live eternally in God’s love. This is the reason we can say that we are created in God’s image.
(CCC 355-357)

It makes obvious sense that being the created ones, we trust in our Creator and thus we are subject to His will. We are also totally distinct in kind from all the rest of the universe in that we have both the ability to direct our lives to ultimate union with God or to turn our backs on our loving Creator. We can choose the ultimate good, God. Or we can choose the wrong substitutes. Our basic freedom consists in being able to choose.

Adam chose to let his trust in God die in his heart and, abusing his freedom, disobeyed God’s command. This is the first sin, the original sin. In that sin, man preferred himself to God and by that act the created scorned his Creator.
(CCC 397-401)
In reality, isn’t that the same kind of sin which exists today?

Blessings,
granny

CCC is the Catechism of the Catholic Church
Link is www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
 
A catechism that refuses to refuses to deal with scientific reality is a sign of a church no longer in contact with the world, a church destined to grow less and less relevant to those to whom it should be reaching out.
Let’s assume that you are referring to the first creation account in Genesis.

I was reading an authoritative and scholarly Jewish commentary on Genesis and it puts the subject into its own context, not the modern broken-record context of evolution vs creation.

The Jewish perspective is how different this creation account is from other creation myths of its time period. Very briefly, the “seven day” aspect of the creation account, I would suggest, is not what we moderns are interpreting it to be, a literal astronomical 24-hour day x 7 account of creation.

The seven-day creation account is the standard metaphor for describing or doing anything important in Biblical times. Weddings were seven days, coronations were seven days, etc.

The seven-day account is a way of saying that creation was obviously a very important event. If God had created everything in the timeframe of a flashbulb burning, then it simply wouldn’t have been taken as seriously by the readers/listeners as a seven day account.

The analysts feel that the first account of creation in Gen 1:1 to 2:3a was written LATER than the creation account starting at Gen 2:3b. It’s not hard to see that the seven-day creation with its seventh day of “rest” is a template for the feast of the Sabbath to be established at a later time.

A lot of things in the Bible don’t make sense without the picture of things that we have in Gen 1:1 to 2:3.

God speaks seven times and it is so seven times. God judges the creation seven times and says it is good (or very good) seven times. And, according to the commentary, the Hebrew verses are either seven words each or a multiple of seven words.

So, as is often pointed out, “seven” is a Biblically important number that in whatever later context it occurs, it may be pointing back to creation, God’s plan, perfection, etc.

It’s good to “work” a Biblical text to see what’s there, but we ought to be open at all times to the inexhaustible source of divine inspiration.

An astronomical seven 24-hour days creation is almost an unimportant meaning of the creation account. It was probably NEVER meant to convey such a narrow idea, any more than “it’s raining cats and dogs” means that animals are falling out of the sky or “I’m so hungry I could eat a horse” means that I have my eye on some stallion.
 
Hi here is a question. Or a ponderment
I try and make it simple.
Did the garden of Eden cover the entire earth? I don’t think it did as Adam and eve were expelled from it. Where did they go? I believe the garden was a huge area on earth. Not all the earth.
Adam and eve first humans. I believe they were. But. I don’t think they were the only humans. I believe there were humans living out side of the garden.
Does anyone here think I’m off track here?
There was a program on cable tv about the garden of Eden. It’s hard today to find a place in the mid-East where there is the convergence of four rivers.

But, recall that geologists say that ocean levels are 500 feet higher today than when the biblical accounts were written.

The point of convergence of the four great rivers would be a place that is now submerged under the Red Sea. Satellite photos of the area show two more dry river beds leading towards the sea,

So, the story of Eden is not at all improbable based on the geographic and geologic records.
 
There was a program on cable tv about the garden of Eden. It’s hard today to find a place in the mid-East where there is the convergence of four rivers.

But, recall that geologists say that ocean levels are 500 feet higher today than when the biblical accounts were written.

The point of convergence of the four great rivers would be a place that is now submerged under the Red Sea. Satellite photos of the area show two more dry river beds leading towards the sea,

So, the story of Eden is not at all improbable based on the geographic and geologic records.
Hi Crumpy,

I am still thinking about the Garden of Eden.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church refers to God establishing Adam and Eve in His friendship. Intuitively, I know that it is possible for current humans to walk in friendship with God.

Does that mean we have the same human nature as Adam? Why aren’t we in that Garden?

Blessings,
granny

Creation reflects the beauty of the Creator.
 
Grannymh,

Absolutely we have the nature of Adam and Eve. Genesis is the book of ‘origins’ and it is spiritually or religiously, if not literally, about us. Adam and Eve have very modern emotions and intellect, don’t they? Whoever they were , they were our parents.

Why aren’t we in the garden?

That’s the whole story of the Bible. We got kicked out of Eden (Paradise) with them. In Jesus, all has been restored.

At least one glimpse of the evidence for that is what Jesus said (someplace) about marriage and divorce. He referred to Genesis and quoted the verse about ‘what God has joined together’ and “the two shall become one flesh.” The two becoming one flesh was the situation BEFORE Adam and Eve sinned, so Jesus’ ideal of marriage in this world is that which existed before the Fall of Adam and Eve. Specifically, in Jesus, marriage, in particular, is elevated to the original state of grace.

If I had to attribute this explanation, I’d say it was something I read by Dr. Scott Hahn.
 
Grannymh,

That’s the whole story of the Bible. We got kicked out of Eden (Paradise) with them. In Jesus, all has been restored.
Hi Crumpy,
This is for you – :flowers:
First for making me laugh with your “intellectual nosebleeds” comment on another thread.

But most of all for your common sense explanation of this part in paragraph 404 in the *Catechism of the Catholic Church *link www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
(CCC 404) The whole human race is in Adam “as one body of one man.” By this “unity of the human race” all men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as all are implicated in Christ’s justice.
At my level, your post 32 said:
"That’s the whole story of the Bible. We got kicked out of Eden (Paradise) with them [Adam and Eve]. In Jesus, all has been restored.

Blessings,
granny

Spring is the message of hope sent by God.
 
That’s the whole story of the Bible. We got kicked out of Eden (Paradise) with them. In Jesus, all has been restored.
Another thought.

There are a lot of Christians who only half understand why we got kicked out of the Garden of Eden. They prefer to think that Adam is a symbol so his sin can’t be real.
Some really strange ideas come from not understanding who Adam is.😦
 
**Why the discussion about Adam and Eve? **

In themselves, Adam and Eve are not prime time sound bites. But for the curious, knowing human history helps to answer basic life questions such as: Where do we come from? Where are we going? What is our origin? What is our end?

By recognizing the unique reality of Adam and Eve, we affirm our own uniqueness. Catholicism places humanity at the pinnacle of creation because human nature is an intimate unification of the material human body and the immaterial spiritual soul. The human person is peerless in the animal world.

By all means, the realm of science is material, but that does not mean that other possibilities must be excluded from analysis especially since there are reasonable grounds for the immaterial or spiritual aspects of human nature. A prime example is man’s natural, inherent ability to choose freely, and implement his choice engaging his physical being in so doing. The will, with its freedom, is spiritual. It is the spiritual aspects which demonstrate that the human species is different in kind from all animals. And who is the first example of human free will? Adam of course.

Blessings,
granny

Adam and Eve are real by the grace of God.
 
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