Adam and Eve

[Nicea325]

Mormons worship the God that said: “Let us make man… after our likeness.” (Gen 1:26) And the Bible compares this likeness to a father and his son:

“This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth.” (Gen. 5:1-3)

No.

One more time…YOU ARE NOT GOD…PERIOD! One more time…likeness and image does not = I AM GOD.

You are not God and never will be God. Precisely why Mormons worship a different God.

 

[mtolympus]

One more time…YOU ARE NOT GOD…PERIOD! One more time…likeness and image does not = I AM GOD.

You got that right! I am not God and I never said anything like that.

You are not God and never will be God. Precisely why Mormons worship a different God.

However, Jesus is my brother:

“Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.” (John 20:17)

Which makes it possible to be an heir of our Father, and joint-heir with Christ:

“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.” (Romans 8:16-17)

 

[SteveVH]

Which makes it possible to be an heir of our Father, and joint-heir with Christ:

Yes, but never equal to Christ.

 

[mtolympus]

Yes, but never equal to Christ.

Absolutly right, Jesus Christ is our advocate with the Father.

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” (1 John 2:1-2)

 

[Nicea325]

You got that right! I am not God and I never said anything like that.

However, Jesus is my brother:

“Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.” (John 20:17)

Which makes it possible to be an heir of our Father, and joint-heir with Christ:

“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.” (Romans 8:16-17)

Whew! :dancing: Glad to know you admit you are NOT God. Yes, we humans are God’s children…yes…yes.

 

[Nicea325]

Yes, but never equal to Christ.

Exactly! Problem with some folks is that their theology leaves a lot be desired.

 

[rinnie]

I understand that for us after the fall but not for Adam and Eve.

Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil until after partaking of the fruit. They were told to not eat that particular fruit, and they didn’t until Satan tempted them. Did they know Satan was tempting them to disobey God? I don’t know. But IMO, I don’t think Adam and Even would have eaten the fruit without Satan being there.

But what did him being there have to do with sin? We have free will. The devil is by us when he wants us to sin, but we can reject sin also.

And yes, they knew. They ate it because they wanted to be God. Why do you think they went and hid? They knew they sinned.

 

[rinnie]

Well, actually yes. Without Satan, we wouldn’t know good from evil and be able to find happiness with God. Because Adam disobeyed and was cast from the Garden of Eden, they were able to have children and teach them the consequences of disobeying God vs the blessings of following His commandments. Disobedience can be a learning tool, i’m not saying we should go out and disobey everything and that makes it ok, but thats how we learn. From the mistakes of others and the successes of others.

So then I would also assume ya’ll don’t believe Noah is the angel Gabriel either?

Huh? You don’t need satan to know good from evil. God gave you a conscience. A mind, free will.

It was God who teaches us right from wrong. To disobey God has nothing to do with learning or making mistakes. To disobey God means to sin and separate ourself from him, And to put ourself before God.

 

[rinnie]

No matter how many times you say otherwise, the Bible tells us we were made to be like God:

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.”(Gen.1:26)

…and that man has the potential to became as God:

“And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.” (Gen. 3:22)

The church organization, which included apostles and prophets, was given to help baptised members of the church strive toward perfection: "For the perfecting of the saints.” (Eph. 4:12).

We do all that we are capable of doing ourselves and call upon the name of the Lord through repentance and baptism. We continue to improve and renew our lives daily to conform ourselves to the perfect image of Jesus Christ. (Col. 3:9-10) It is by this process that we may become sanctified through the atoning blood of Jesus. (Heb. 13:12) “He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” (Heb. 10:14)

Jesus will give us the power to become the sons of God if we will receive him. (John 1:12) Why? So that we may become like him!

“Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.” (1 John 3:2)

I think you are a little confused. We are taught to be Christlike. But that does not mean to BE Christ it means to imitate him. Not become God.

Scripture cannot contradict scripture.

The first commandment says I am the Lord you God there shall be no Gods before me. So that means ONE GOD forever and ever.

As the scripture say we shall be LIKE him. I think you missed the word Like.

 

[HojaVerde]

Hi mtolympus,

May I ask you a question? If so, here it goes:

What do mormons understand by the words “only-beggoten son of the Father” for example in the following qoutes?

“No man has ever seen God; but now his only-begotten Son, who abides in the bosom of the Father, has himself become our interpreter” (John 1, 18)

“What has revealed the love of God, where we are concerned, is that he has sent his only-begotten Son into the world, so that we might have life through him.” (1 John 4, 9)

And what do you understand by the following quote?

“11 He came to what was his own, and they who were his own gave him no welcome. 12 But all those who did welcome him, he empowered to become the children of God, all those who believe in his name; 13 their birth came, not from human stock, not from nature’s will or man’s, but from God.” (John 1, 11-13)

Thank you,

 

[Nicea325]

I think you are a little confused. We are taught to be Christlike. But that does not mean to BE Christ it means to imitate him. Not become God.

Scripture cannot contradict scripture.

The first commandment says I am the Lord you God there shall be no Gods before me. So that means ONE GOD forever and ever.

As the scripture say we shall be LIKE him. I think you missed the word Like.

mtolympus did admit we cannot be God. Whew! Good thing!

 

[RebeccaJ]

he destined us for adoption to himself through Jesus Christ, in accord with the favor of his will

Eph 1:5

 

[HojaVerde]

he destined us for adoption to himself through Jesus Christ, in accord with the favor of his will

Eph 1:5

Hi RebeccaJ. Yeah! We believe that, but What do mormons believe about John 1, 11-13 ? Don’t they teach that we all are children of God from the eternity? Then… How can we become children of God again?

 

[zaffiroborant]

Hi RebeccaJ. Yeah! We believe that, but What do mormons believe about John 1, 11-13 ? Don’t they teach that we all are children of God from the eternity? Then… How can we become children of God again?

They believe we existed eternally apart from God, we have always existed. This doesn’t make sense to me, how can we be the literal offspring of heavenly parents when we have always existed independent of them?

 

[Swc651]

I understand that for us after the fall but not for Adam and Eve.

Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil until after partaking of the fruit. They were told to not eat that particular fruit, and they didn’t until Satan tempted them. Did they know Satan was tempting them to disobey God? I don’t know. But IMO, I don’t think Adam and Even would have eaten the fruit without Satan being there.

Why take the story so literally? An alternative explanation is that free will cannot exist without evil. Without the possibility of evil we could not choose good! The apple is the burden of free will and choice, not the work of the devil. The snake is temptation or the initial revelation of the ability to choose. We did not fall from Grace through sin. Sin exists and must be a viable option in order for us to choose to love and follow God. The very definition of a “necessary evil.”

In any event all that exists, exists because God created it. This includes the light and the dark the Holy and sinful. If God is the Creator of all, he must also be the creator of evil and sin.

 

[HojaVerde]

They believe we existed eternally apart from God, we have always existed. This doesn’t make sense to me, how can we be the literal offspring of heavenly parents when we have always existed independent of them?

Hi zaffiroborant, nice to meet you.

Right! Good point. I see also a contradiction between that doctrine and what is said in John 1, 11-13. I wondered how that doctrine could be explained.

How many kind of births!. At least I can count three:
First, from Heavenly Parents.
Second, from our earthly parents.
Third, (for example John 3, 5), the called “born again” or baptism.

But according to John 1, 11-13 we are not children of God until we believe in Christ.

 

[Swc651]

But what did him being there have to do with sin? We have free will. The devil is by us when he wants us to sin, but we can reject sin also.

And yes, they knew. They ate it because they wanted to be God. Why do you think they went and hid? They knew they sinned.

The commandment not to eat the fruit CREATED the possibility of sin. The snake (which is only popularly interpreted as Satan, but didn’t Satan’s fall come later?) is man’s realization of choice without which we would not have free will. God created the forbidden (commandment not to eat the fruit) and the possibility of choice so that we might have free will. If he had not created the forbidden, we would not be have choice!

Genesis also plays well with evolutionary theories. Animals cannot sin because they do not have choice. They do not experience shame (i.e due to nakedness) because they are not self aware. If you believe in evolution (which God could have set in motion with the intent of creating man), this describes the moment we moved from unaware animals to cognizant beings with the ability to think, reason and choose which are attributes God possesses (“in his likeness”).

 

[Swc651]

Hi zaffiroborant, nice to meet you.

Right! Good point. I see also a contradiction between that doctrine and what is said in John 1, 11-13. I wondered how that doctrine could be explained.

How many kind of births!. At least I can count three:
First, from Heavenly Parents.
Second, from our earthly parents.
Third, (for example John 3, 5), the called “born again” or baptism.

But according to John 1, 11-13 we are not children of God until we believe in Christ.

“Children of” and “birth” can have different meanings. I am a child of the 1970s, but I was not birthed by the decade. A rebirth, or being born again is not the same as traveling through the birth canal. It can mean the completion of a transition or starting a major change. I can give birth to an idea, meaning to think it up, without physically expelling it from my body.

 

[HojaVerde]

“Children of” and “birth” can have different meanings. I am a child of the 1970s, but I was not birthed by the decade. A rebirth, or being born again is not the same as traveling through the birth canal. It can mean the completion of a transition or starting a major change. I can give birth to an idea, meaning to think it up, without physically expelling it from my body.

Ok. As a catholic I identify two births. The first one is when a human being is conceived by his/her parents and God creates a soul for his/her body. The second one is when the human being is made child of God by adoption (baptism). I am not saying that this second birth is a physical one, but is a truly birth as said in John 1:

“11 He came to what was his own, and they who were his own gave him no welcome. 12 But all those who did welcome him, he empowered to become the children of God, all those who believe in his name; 13 their birth came, not from human stock, not from nature’s will or man’s, but from God.” (John 1, 11-13)

You can also see the catechism, for example number 1265.

 

[HojaVerde]

If God is the Creator of all, he must also be the creator of evil and sin.

Are you sure about that? I thought God created everything good and indeed very good. Evil and sin is not the creation of God.