Adam God

[lynnettejane]

Has anyone seen the book The Unknown God by Nate Taylor. It addresses the Adam God doctrine and seems to show evidence that it came from Joseph Smith. There is a preview on google books, but haven’t really read it, has anyone else?

 

[R_C]

Has anyone seen the book The Unknown God by Nate Taylor. It addresses the Adam God doctrine and seems to show evidence that it came from Joseph Smith. There is a preview on google books, but haven’t really read it, has anyone else?

I haven’t read the book. I had never heard of the “Adam God doctrine”. From wiki:

The Adam–God doctrine (or Adam–God theory) was one of several theological doctrines taught in mid-19th century Mormonism by Brigham Young. Although widely rejected by main-stream Mormonism it is part of the modern theology of some forms of Mormon fundamentalism. According to Young, he was taught by Joseph Smith that: Adam is “our Father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do”

Mid-19th century novelty, that’s all Ignore it in its entirety, regardless of whether it came from Joseph Smith or from an angel of light, for that’s how St. Paul directs us to deal with new gospels.

 

[TexanKnight]

Adam/God was taught as doctrine by Brigham Young. Now, mormons say the doctrine is wrong. So, they prove BY was not a prophet because a true prophet would not teach false doctrine.

So, either Adam/God is true doctrine or BY was a false prophet

I love it

 

[lynnettejane]

I haven’t read the book. I had never heard of the “Adam God doctrine”. From wiki:

Mid-19th century novelty, that’s all Ignore it in its entirety, regardless of whether it came from Joseph Smith or from an angel of light, for that’s how St. Paul directs us to deal with new gospels.

This mid 19th century novelty was taught by BY for about 20 years although the LDS try to back away from it now. However I was interested to see, according to a quick glance at this book that JS was the instigator of this belief, not BY. The whole Adam is our father and our God thing is an absolute lie, and proves BY to be deluded, but this book also seems to knock another nail in the idea that JS was a prophet.

 

[Tweedle_Dee]

I would bet that 90% of faithful Mormons have never heard of the doctrine.

 

[GaryTaylor]

What percent of Mormons know, doesn’t change the facts. Perhaps the percent that didn’t know were considered ignorant? That’s how that works in the Mormon world no? Just Saying… One must be milk-fed these delicate teachings.

I know they [Mormons-LDS] have some fascinating views on Genesis.

 

[lynnettejane]

I would bet that 90% of faithful Mormons have never heard of the doctrine.

Those that have deny it was ever doctrine, but the language used to propound this doctrine by their prophet, at conferences in front of at least hundreds, and confirmed that it was taught as doctrine in the journals of prominent mormons who were there gives the lie to their denials.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I would bet that 90% of faithful Mormons have never heard of the doctrine.

I was taught it in Sunday school, but it has been a long time since I was in a Mormon Sunday school.

 

[lynnettejane]

I was taught it in Sunday school, but it has been a long time since I was in a Mormon Sunday school.

It may be a long time Rebecca, but you are living proof that it was taught, so you can refute this false doctrine through your own experience.

 

[TexanKnight]

Mormons who try to claim BY was wrong have a serious problem. Either he was a prophet, or he wasn’t.

“When the Prophet speaks, the debate is over.”-Ensign, Aug. 1979, pp. 2-3.

Said Brigham Young, “I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call scripture” (Journal of Discourses, 13:95).

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt to do that, the Lord would remove me out of my place…"- President Wilford Woodruff, Deseret Evening News, Oct. 11, 1890, p. 2.

“…convince us of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by logical arguments, or by the Word of God, and we will be ever grateful for the information, and you will ever have the pleasing reflection that you have been instruments in the hands of God of redeeming your fellow beings from the darkness which you may see enveloping their minds…”- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, pp. 15-16

Scripture vs. Prophets

Young Women’s President Elaine Cannon said: “Personal opinions may vary. Eternal principles never do. When the prophet speaks, sisters, the debate is over.”-Ensign Nov. 1978, p. 108. President N. Eldon Tanner of the First Presidency endorsed her statement: “I was much impressed by that simple statement, which carries such deep spiritual meaning for all of us. Wherever I go, my message to the people is: follow the Prophet…Whose side are we on? When the Prophet speaks, the debate is over.”-Ensign, Aug. 1979, pp. 2-3.

Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.136

The prophet does not have to say “Thus saith the Lord” to give us scripture. Sometimes there are those who haggle over words. They might say the prophet gave us counsel but that we are not obligated to follow it unless he says it is a commandment. But the Lord says of the Prophet Joseph, “Thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you” (D&C 21:4).

 

[Porknpie]

Mormons who try to claim BY was wrong have a serious problem. Either he was a prophet, or he wasn’t.

“When the Prophet speaks, the debate is over.”-Ensign, Aug. 1979, pp. 2-3.

Said Brigham Young, “I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call scripture” (Journal of Discourses, 13:95).

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt to do that, the Lord would remove me out of my place…"- President Wilford Woodruff, Deseret Evening News, Oct. 11, 1890, p. 2.

“…convince us of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by logical arguments, or by the Word of God, and we will be ever grateful for the information, and you will ever have the pleasing reflection that you have been instruments in the hands of God of redeeming your fellow beings from the darkness which you may see enveloping their minds…”- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, pp. 15-16

Scripture vs. Prophets

Young Women’s President Elaine Cannon said: “Personal opinions may vary. Eternal principles never do. When the prophet speaks, sisters, the debate is over.”-Ensign Nov. 1978, p. 108. President N. Eldon Tanner of the First Presidency endorsed her statement: “I was much impressed by that simple statement, which carries such deep spiritual meaning for all of us. Wherever I go, my message to the people is: follow the Prophet…Whose side are we on? When the Prophet speaks, the debate is over.”-Ensign, Aug. 1979, pp. 2-3.

Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.136

The prophet does not have to say “Thus saith the Lord” to give us scripture. Sometimes there are those who haggle over words. They might say the prophet gave us counsel but that we are not obligated to follow it unless he says it is a commandment. But the Lord says of the Prophet Joseph, “Thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you” (D&C 21:4).

I can’t believe that there is a major university with this guy’s name on it.

 

[RebeccaJ]

It may be a long time Rebecca, but you are living proof that it was taught, so you can refute this false doctrine through your own experience.

Ah well, I was taught many of the things Mormons now call “anti-Mormon”, in Mormon classes. I didn’t believe some of them then, but current LDS can never answer the question, “What is being taught now as truth that will be, in 30 years or more, just some guy’s opinion?”

It all comes down to feeling, and each individual figuring out different approaches to smoothing out the inconsistencies.

What is never addressed, is the fact that Mormon thought/belief/understanding could lead anyone down the path of a speculation, that Adam is God. It is an idea that still makes sense, in a Mormon context. It just isn’t acceptable to non-Mormon ears, so it has to be jettisoned.

Interesting enough, I was spending more time than usual lately on the subject of sin and grace. Christ, as the New Adam, I think is the orthodox teaching/belief that has been, in Mormonism, twisted to match up to their idea of everyone is a god. I also think it matches up to Smith’s megalomania. I mean, if he had lived long enough, I think he would have claimed to be God himself.

 

[TexanKnight]

Notice that Mormons were too afraid to even TOUCH this one?

Pray for them

 

[aidanbradypop]

Has anyone seen the book The Unknown God by Nate Taylor. It addresses the Adam God doctrine and seems to show evidence that it came from Joseph Smith. There is a preview on google books, but haven’t really read it, has anyone else?

The Adam–God doctrine teaches that Adam is the father of both the spirits and physical bodies of all humans born on earth, including Jesus.

Under the Adam–God doctrine, Adam had a number of roles. First, he was a creator god who, with his wife Eve had become gods by living a mortal life, becoming resurrected, and earning their exaltation on another planet. As a god before the creation of the earth, he was known as Michael), or the “Ancient of Days”. Adherents teach that Michael sat on his throne with other wives than Eve, and that he was a polygamist. Michael was not the only creator god, however, as he was a member of a council of earth’s creator gods, which also included the gods “Elohim” and “Jehovah”. Within this counsel, Jehovah and Michael were subordinate to Elohim, and created the earth under the direction of Elohim. Michael was selected by the heads of this counsel of gods to be the Father of this earth.

Second, the doctrine teaches that Michael was the father of the spirits in heaven who are associated with this earth. Through natural or sexual relations with at least Eve and possibly his other wives, Michael had fathered the spirits of spirit offspring in the preexistence. These spirits included Jesus, his firstborn, and Lucifer (the fallen angel who Mormons believe is Satan). Michael became the heavenly “Father”, and formed a “Godhead” that included Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Third, the doctrine teaches that Michael came to the earth with one of his wives, where they became known as Adam and Eve, and became the progenitor of the human race and the father of mortal bodies of all his spirit offspring, so that they could progress and achieve godhood like themselves. The names “Adam” and “Eve” are titles that reflect their roles as the parents of humanity. The privilege of peopling the earth was part of Adam and Eve’s eternal reward as exalted mortals from their prior planet. To bear mortal children, Adam and Eve had to take on mortal bodies. The bodies of Adam and Eve fell to a mortal state when they ate the fruits of the garden.

Fourth, after Adam’s second mortal life, the Adam–God doctrine teaches that Adam returned to his throne and reigned as the immortal God of this earth. He is thus considered to be the Biblical god of Israel.

Finally, the Adam–God doctrine teaches that Michael/Adam was the literal, biological father, with Mary of the mortal body of Jesus.

 

[kimg901]

The Adam–God doctrine teaches that Adam is the father of both the spirits and physical bodies of all humans born on earth, including Jesus.

Under the Adam–God doctrine, Adam had a number of roles. First, he was a creator god who, with his wife Eve had become gods by living a mortal life, becoming resurrected, and earning their exaltation on another planet. As a god before the creation of the earth, he was known as Michael), or the “Ancient of Days”. Adherents teach that Michael sat on his throne with other wives than Eve, and that he was a polygamist. Michael was not the only creator god, however, as he was a member of a council of earth’s creator gods, which also included the gods “Elohim” and “Jehovah”. Within this counsel, Jehovah and Michael were subordinate to Elohim, and created the earth under the direction of Elohim. Michael was selected by the heads of this counsel of gods to be the Father of this earth.

Second, the doctrine teaches that Michael was the father of the spirits in heaven who are associated with this earth. Through natural or sexual relations with at least Eve and possibly his other wives, Michael had fathered the spirits of spirit offspring in the preexistence. These spirits included Jesus, his firstborn, and Lucifer (the fallen angel who Mormons believe is Satan). Michael became the heavenly “Father”, and formed a “Godhead” that included Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Third, the doctrine teaches that Michael came to the earth with one of his wives, where they became known as Adam and Eve, and became the progenitor of the human race and the father of mortal bodies of all his spirit offspring, so that they could progress and achieve godhood like themselves. The names “Adam” and “Eve” are titles that reflect their roles as the parents of humanity. The privilege of peopling the earth was part of Adam and Eve’s eternal reward as exalted mortals from their prior planet. To bear mortal children, Adam and Eve had to take on mortal bodies. The bodies of Adam and Eve fell to a mortal state when they ate the fruits of the garden.

Fourth, after Adam’s second mortal life, the Adam–God doctrine teaches that Adam returned to his throne and reigned as the immortal God of this earth. He is thus considered to be the Biblical god of Israel.

Finally, the Adam–God doctrine teaches that Michael/Adam was the literal, biological father, with Mary of the mortal body of Jesus.

Nice post but can you please tell us where you got this from? Its always nice to have the proof

 

[SteveVH]

The Adam–God doctrine teaches that Adam is the father of both the spirits and physical bodies of all humans born on earth, including Jesus.

Under the Adam–God doctrine, Adam had a number of roles. First, he was a creator god who, with his wife Eve had become gods by living a mortal life, becoming resurrected, and earning their exaltation on another planet. As a god before the creation of the earth, he was known as Michael), or the “Ancient of Days”. Adherents teach that Michael sat on his throne with other wives than Eve, and that he was a polygamist. Michael was not the only creator god, however, as he was a member of a council of earth’s creator gods, which also included the gods “Elohim” and “Jehovah”. Within this counsel, Jehovah and Michael were subordinate to Elohim, and created the earth under the direction of Elohim. Michael was selected by the heads of this counsel of gods to be the Father of this earth.

Second, the doctrine teaches that Michael was the father of the spirits in heaven who are associated with this earth. Through natural or sexual relations with at least Eve and possibly his other wives, Michael had fathered the spirits of spirit offspring in the preexistence. These spirits included Jesus, his firstborn, and Lucifer (the fallen angel who Mormons believe is Satan). Michael became the heavenly “Father”, and formed a “Godhead” that included Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Third, the doctrine teaches that Michael came to the earth with one of his wives, where they became known as Adam and Eve, and became the progenitor of the human race and the father of mortal bodies of all his spirit offspring, so that they could progress and achieve godhood like themselves. The names “Adam” and “Eve” are titles that reflect their roles as the parents of humanity. The privilege of peopling the earth was part of Adam and Eve’s eternal reward as exalted mortals from their prior planet. To bear mortal children, Adam and Eve had to take on mortal bodies. The bodies of Adam and Eve fell to a mortal state when they ate the fruits of the garden.

Fourth, after Adam’s second mortal life, the Adam–God doctrine teaches that Adam returned to his throne and reigned as the immortal God of this earth. He is thus considered to be the Biblical god of Israel.

Finally, the Adam–God doctrine teaches that Michael/Adam was the literal, biological father, with Mary of the mortal body of Jesus.

Amazing. But I would also ask for documentation. The obvious question that arises for me is this: If Michael was God the Father who came to earth as Adam, along with his wife Eve, then who did they sin against? Forget, for the moment, that this requires the impossible; that God could ever sin. Who did he sin against? Himself? And who threw Adam and Eve out of the Garden? One could go on and on… :hypno:

 

[lynnettejane]

you can find the references on www.Mormonthink.org, but I have known about this doctrine for years, first found out through the Tanners ministry Ex Mormons for Jesus, now Utah Lighthouse Ministry. I bought their book, Mormonism Shadow or Reality, which was I suppose the equivalent to Mormonthink in print, this was way back in the late 70s. So it has been well documented and denied for years

 

[SteveVH]

you can find the references on www.Mormonthink.org, but I have known about this doctrine for years, first found out through the Tanners ministry Ex Mormons for Jesus, now Utah Lighthouse Ministry. I bought their book, Mormonism Shadow or Reality, which was I suppose the equivalent to Mormonthink in print, this was way back in the late 70s. So it has been well documented and denied for years

I’ve heard of this before as well, just not in that detail. I am still interested in the documentation, however. Was this given in a speach? Was it written down somewhere?

 

[lynnettejane]

Brigham Young was the first to air it in public at a conferece and it was recorded in the journal of discourses. But as I said at the beginning of this thread I recently found a preview of a book called The Unknown God by Nate E Taylor which is well referenced and which seems to show that the doctrine began with JS. Take a look, it is a google E book I think.

 

[lynnettejane]

It would seem that this book is written by a present day beliver of the A/G doctrine and he sets out to prove that it was taught as such and was not just a theory. Although it is only a preview, it contains a lot of stuff and lots of references. Interesting to see why a modern mormon would believe this.