I’m not claiming the view I’m just throwing it out there. I was pointing out that Granny’s axioms are also true outside Catholicism. They don’t necessarily lead to a logical Adam.
This is what Roscoe said in post 689.
I don’t think your axioms necessarily lead to the Catholic view. You can take the view of Panentheism and your axioms are still followed. God is creator and God interacts with humans. It’s impossible not to interact.
In my humble opinion, Roscoe is right about Granny’s axioms, 1. God as Creator exists. and 2. God as Creator interacts with humans. They are true outside Catholicism because a sense of the supernatural is inherent in humanity going all the way back to ancient cultures. The forms of religious expression, such as prayers, sacrifices, rituals, meditations, etc., have not always been holy; yet, both good and bad expressions came from some sense of a supernatural god or gods. These expressions are so universal that man is considered a religious being. (
CCC, 28)
As I said above in agreement, the first two axioms can be true outside Catholicism. In going over the Panentheism
Wikipedia link, including what is in the various religions and philosophical writings, we find the existence of God and His relationship with the universe. The creation of humankind can be seen as the primary interaction between God and humans.
Stop here. Just because we find “God” explained in the Panentheism article …That does not mean that Panentheism is a truth of the Catholic Church.
When it comes to Panentheism, in 2011, the Committee on Doctrine, United States Conference of Catholic Bishops concluded that there were serious errors in the book,
Quest for the Living God, Mapping Frontiers in the Theology of God by Elizabeth A. Johnson CSJ. Along with other issues, the book’s proposed Panentheistic model was thoroughly examined in the light of Catholic theology. In their final report, the Committee on Doctrine stated publically “that on several critical points the book is seriously inadequate as a presentation of the Catholic understanding of God.”
On CAF, there was some brief discussion about the book and some threads on Panentheism. For the purpose of this thread, the first statements that are needed is that God exists and His action of creating humankind would be considered His primary interaction with humans. This is independent from the Panentheistic points which are in opposition to Catholicism. In other words, the first two axioms are true; but they, in themselves, do not necessarily lead to a logical Adam. Hopefully, that makes sense.
The odd coincidence between Panentheism and post 688
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11620731&postcount=688
is that both give me the feeling that something more is needed. While some ideas of Panentheism can sound similar to some of Catholic teachings, Panentheism stops short. Acknowledging that God is the Creator, says nothing about the goal of humankind.
Somehow, we need to shift from general creation, a proper topic, to the nature of the human person. In the first three chapters of Genesis, we follow the road from our human nature, even when it is wounded, right back to Adam.
