Adding sense to Christianity

[mark_a]

Hi
In fact every single denomination from the Christian denominations; considers themselves as the truthful Christianity, exclude themselves as a denomination. If anyone has a doubt on this; then one could ask from the JWs- the only true Christians, as they say or one can ask from the Protestants. I may relax it for the Catholics; as my intention is to unite them in One Christendom; my intention is not to divide them, in the least.

I think you have a Muslimized view of Christianity. Christianity is far more divided than Islam appears to be. Catholics and much of Protestantism are nearly as different as peaceful Ahmadi Muslims and Muslim extremist fundamentalist suicide bombers. The Catholic Church is the true Church from which denoms have departed.

We Muslims don’t take pride in having largest number of denominations; that pride may rest with the Christians only, if they like.

The pope calls the disunity of Christianity disgraceful. CAgain, Catholics are not happy about thge disunity among Christians.

We stop at the number of 72 to which the **Traditional Islam **was to divide as prophesized by Muhammad until the advent of **Second Coming **1835-1908.

Could you explain further? Are there major differences between the 72?

The info on the link you provided is unacceptable to Catholics.

 

[mark_a]

bump

 

[paarsurrey]

The info on the link you provided is unacceptable to Catholics.

Hi

I think I did not suggest a link in my post. Kinldy elaborate.

Thanks

 

[mark_a]

Hi

I think I did not suggest a link in my post. Kinldy elaborate.

Thanks

This one: alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html

 

[Ruthie]

Dear Paar,

We have a fundamental difference here. You are saying that the Crucifixion and Resurrection were false, and an idea that originated with St. Paul.

We believe what the authors of the New Testament say, that Jesus was crucified, died, was buried, and rose again from the dead. Paul did not write the Gospels nor the letters of James, John, and Peter.

This is one place where Muslim and Christian will never meet. As long as you believe what the Qu’ran says about Jesus, we will not agree.

Still friends?

Ruthie

 

[bpbasilphx]

**
Christianity with all its 32000+ denominations,please don’t mind, is but a mythical religion; since the times Paul invented “Jesus died a cursed death on Cross” as its backbone creed.**

**St. Paul also said, “The very word ‘Cross’ is foolishness to those who are perishing.”

If you find the Cross of Christ such foolishness, what does that say about you?

Isa akbar!

Isa akbar!

ISA AKBAR!

I bear witness there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead.**

 

[paarsurrey]

Ruthie; 4500600:

Dear Paar,

We have a fundamental difference here. You are saying that the Crucifixion and Resurrection were false, and an idea that originated with St. Paul.

We believe what the authors of the New Testament say, that Jesus was crucified, died, was buried, and rose again from the dead. Paul did not write the Gospels nor the letters of James, John, and Peter.

This is one place where Muslim and Christian will never meet. As long as you believe what the Qu’ran says about Jesus, we will not agree.

Still friends?

Ruthie

Hi

We understand that the status of NTBible is not even of a Hadith in Muslims. NTBible was not dictated by Jesus, as was not the Hadith dictated by Muhammad; but Muslims scrutinized Hadith with the chains of persons narrating it (technically called rivayat) and then its comparison with standard book Quran for the meaning (technically called drayat). If Hadith was not according to Quran it was not to be practiced.

So, our Catholic friends here for no fault of theirs had nothing with them dictated directly from Jesus; well, I am sorry for that. Jesus might have left that for Muhammad.

Even with the scant and weak accounts of Jesus life that we find with our Catholic friends, for no fault of theirs; still we can prove for sure that Jesus did not die on Cross but he died later naturally and peacefully, as you know now in Kashmir. When Jesus went to India; he did take only his trusted friends with him.
Peter betrayed Jesus as you all know; he cannot be a rock that melted so easily. Paul was an enemy it is mentioned in the Bible; but for a foggy vision.

It is very much mentioned in the NTBible that Jesus body after the crucifixion was wrapped with so many wrappings, might be after applying ointment made from too much contents of the botanical fragrances. Instead of bathing the body of Jesus for burial, his friends put wrappings on him. Who puts wrappings on a dead body? Not a custom of Jews nor Christians not late of the Muslims . This shows for sure that his friends were certain Jesus had not died a curse death on Cross.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks

 

[notsmart]

Hi

We understand that the status of NTBible is not even of a Hadith in Muslims. NTBible was not dictated by Jesus, as was not the Hadith dictated by Muhammad

You put Jesus and Mary on the same platform as Buddha and Krishna?

You disrespect your prophet saying this don’t you?

 

[paarsurrey]

You put Jesus and Mary on the same platform as Buddha and Krishna?

Hi

The platform I put them all is a platform of love, reason, truth, serving God Allah, serving humanity, doing good deeds. Is it not a good platform to put them all together?

Jesus had a role to play in the world; which you can only understand if you know the full account of his life. I don’t blame you, it is not your fault; you insist basing your faith on not even on half, may be it is less than 1/3 of his life account. So, you cannot understand the role he is to paly in the current scenario of world revealed religions.

If you lend your unbiased heart and mind; may be you understand it.

We need love and reason to prevail in this world for peace.

Thanks

 

[Matariel]

What religion *isn’t *mythological?

Now, even though I’m Catholic, I will gladly accept the theory (or possible Truth) of Christianity being a mere mythology.

Religion is just to calm the fears of mankind.

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

Tsk, tsk, B&B. I would have hoped you’d be more secure than that; however, testing one’s faith is a sign of maturity, and can lead to further acceptance of the Truth. That’s why I left the confusion of Protestantism, jumped to Anglicanism, and finally came home to Christ’s Catholic Church on earth, founded by Him.

Just… have faith, B&B.

For arguement’s sake, you can aceept a “mythology” view of Christianity, but no religion is as logically of philosophically sound as Catholic Christianity. This is why the Church as spawned so many great thinkers and philosphers, such as St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, Pascal, etc.

To me (and believe me, I’ve looked at all kinds of religions in my years of confusion) Catholic Christianity is the summit of humanity’s conquest to have union with God.

Hope this helps.

 

[paarsurrey]

For arguement’s sake, you can aceept a “mythology” view of Christianity, but no religion is as logically of philosophically sound as Catholic Christianity. This is why the Church as spawned so many great thinkers and philosphers, such as St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, Pascal, etc.

To me (and believe me, I’ve looked at all kinds of religions in my years of confusion) Catholic Christianity is the summit of humanity’s conquest to have union with God.

Hope this helps.

Hi

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut; and accepting “mythology” view of Christianity as premise.

May be your travel started with a mythology, you traveled in mythology and your ended with mythology; while you never came across reality in my opinion.

Kindly find any mythology in the following:

[112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:2] Say 'He is Allah, the One!
[112:3] Allah the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:4] 'He begets not, nor, is He begotten,
[112:5] And there is none like unto Him.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddah and Krishna

Thanks

 

[po18guy]

Hi

Christianity with all its 32000+ denominations,please don’t mind, is but a mythical religion; since the times Paul invented “Jesus died a cursed death on Cross” as its backbone creed.

Please explain how Muhammadanism is not a made-up religion. Please explain the sects within Islam. Give it as much time as Christianity has had, and it will splinter as well. It has already splintered, due to ego and disobedience, as has Christianity and Judaism. This only proves that men have free will. Only Catholicism is true, 100% Christianity. Sorry about all the others who have different beliefs and practices.

Yours,

po18guy

 

[paarsurrey]

Please explain how Muhammadanism is not a made-up religion. Please explain the sects within Islam. Give it as much time as Christianity has had, and it will splinter as well. It has already splintered, due to ego and disobedience, as has Christianity and Judaism. This only proves that men have free will. Only Catholicism is true, 100% Christianity. Sorry about all the others who have different beliefs and practices.

Yours,

po18guy

Hi

My focus was not on the division and denomination the Christians have; in that I am always in favor of United Christendom; if the Christians or all “the only true Christians” could agree.

But that is only possible, if they shed off some mythological over layers they have put on; in fact that was my focus to make unity a possibility for the Christians.

I think you understand.

Thanks

 

[Matariel]

Kindly find any mythology in the following:

[112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:2] Say 'He is Allah, the One!
[112:3] Allah the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:4] 'He begets not, nor, is He begotten,
[112:5] And there is none like unto Him.

I agree with you on all points, and all those points are correct, except the highlighted one. God is both Begettor and Begotten, both Father and Son.

Think of it this way: The sun emanates both light and heat, ever since it has existed.

So too, God (Father) generates the Son and Holy Spirit.

Also, Islam cannot be reduced to the above statements you made from the Qur’an, and the Qur’an has errors within it, no offence.

Hope this helps.

And, by the way, the Catholic Church is completely united, and is the fullness of the Christian Faith. It was founded by the Lord Jesus Christ, and He promised that it would never fail.

 

[swariffin]

Christianity with all its 32000+ denominations,please don’t mind, is but a mythical religion; since the times Paul invented “Jesus died a cursed death on Cross” as its backbone creed.

Second Coming 1835-1908 GodAllahParmesherYHWH.

My dear Paar,

I thought you have found at least a single proof that Paul’s teaching was not Jesus’ teaching. But, instead you are coming with an old style argument from your ProphetMessenger.

By the way, you usually described your Prophet as ProphetMessenger 1835-1908. Now you have GodAllahParmesherYHWH. Does it means that your 1835-1908 ProphetMessenger get promoted?

 

[paarsurrey]

I agree with you on all points, and all those points are correct, except the highlighted one. God is both Begettor and Begotten, both Father and Son.

Think of it this way: The sun emanates both light and heat, ever since it has existed.

So too, God (Father) generates the Son and Holy Spirit.

Hi

Please don’t mind. As soon as you depart from Quran, your mythical line starts. Sun is not creator of light and heat. God Allah has created the sun;and set the system that it emanates light and heat.

God is not father of sun , light and heat; nor can Son stop sun to emanate light and heat; as there has been no son except mythical . You may become more mythical; why to stop with one son, there could be many sons and daughters if you are mythical to start with.

This is only a discussion to find the truth; no disrespect in intended to any body.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks

 

[po18guy]

Hi

My focus was not on the division and denomination the Christians have; in that I am always in favor of United Christendom; if the Christians or all “the only true Christians” could agree.

But that is only possible, if they shed off some mythological over layers they have put on; in fact that was my focus to make unity a possibility for the Christians.

I think you understand.

Thanks

However, it is written that we may add only our own personal sufferings to the cross of Christ. His bloody Paschal sacrifice stands for all peoples, for all time. It is perfection itself. Nothing else can be added to Christianity, as it lacks nothing.

Tell me, if Buddha and Krishna were equal in stature to Jesus and Mary, were they also prophesied from of old? Were they, or Muhammad born of a virgin? There is nothing to indicate this/ Can you think of a greater happening in man’s eyes? It is in prophecy, but all who come after Jesus, Who is the “new Moses” are called false prophets by sacred scripture.

Also, notice that God has always sent many prophets, and their message is clear and consistent. Islam, like Seventh Day Adventism, the LDS, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses relies on only one main prophet, and the personal living conditions of that special one always seem to allow special favors, rather than a life of self-denial and punishment like the true prophets.

Does not God’s favor rest upon the descendants of Isaac, and not Ishmael? The rejection of Judaism, and everything associated with it demands that an Arabic prophet appear, but it is not spoken of by the great prophets. Just a few observations from history and scripture.

 

[paarsurrey]

Tell me, if Buddha and Krishna were equal in stature to Jesus and Mary, were they also prophesied from of old?

Hi

I never stated even once that Jesus, Mary, Buddha and Krishna are equal in ranking; they may have a ranking of some higher or lower order, depends on the accomplishment of the work assigned to them by God Allah. It is a discretion of Him, I attach no ranking myself.

I love them all and many more with them who served the cause of God Allah, served the humanity, taught them wisdom and humility.

I quote here from Quran:

[2:254]** These messengers have We exalted some of them above others; among them there are those to whom Allah spoke; and some of them He exalted in degrees of rank. **And We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs and strengthened him with the spirit of holiness. And if Allah had so willed, those that came after them would not have fought with one another after clear Signs had come to them; but they did disagree. Of them were some who believed, and of them were some who disbelieved. And if Allah had so willed, they would not have fought with one another; but Allah does what He desires.

[2:286] This Messenger of Ours believes in that which has been revealed to him from his Lord, and so do the believers; all of them believe in Allah, and in His angels, and in His Books, and in His Messengers, saying, **‘We make no distinction between any of His Messengers;’ **and they say, ‘We have heard and we are obedient. Our Lord, we implore Thy forgiveness, and to Thee is the returning.’

Unquote

Thanks

 

[po18guy]

Hi

I never stated even once that Jesus, Mary, Buddha and Krishna are equal in ranking; they may have a ranking of some higher or lower order, depends on the accomplishment of the work assigned to them by God Allah. It is a discretion of Him, I attach no ranking myself.

I love them all and many more with them who served the cause of God Allah, served the humanity, taught them wisdom and humility.

I quote here from Quran:

[2:254]** These messengers have We exalted some of them above others; among them there are those to whom Allah spoke; and some of them He exalted in degrees of rank. **And We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs and strengthened him with the spirit of holiness. And if Allah had so willed, those that came after them would not have fought with one another after clear Signs had come to them; but they did disagree. Of them were some who believed, and of them were some who disbelieved. And if Allah had so willed, they would not have fought with one another; but Allah does what He desires.

[2:286] This Messenger of Ours believes in that which has been revealed to him from his Lord, and so do the believers; all of them believe in Allah, and in His angels, and in His Books, and in His Messengers, saying, **‘We make no distinction between any of His Messengers;’ **and they say, ‘We have heard and we are obedient. Our Lord, we implore Thy forgiveness, and to Thee is the returning.’

Unquote

Thanks

Regarding [2.286], is there a test that you can apply to determine false prophets? Certainly, false prophets have arisen, since they both preceded Jesus and followed him in time, and were written of. What is the test of a false prophet?

 

[swariffin]

[2:286] This Messenger of Ours believes in that which has been revealed to him from his Lord, and so do the believers; all of them believe in Allah, and in His angels, and in His Books, and in His Messengers, saying, **‘We make no distinction between any of His Messengers;’ **and they say, ‘We have heard and we are obedient. Our Lord, we implore Thy forgiveness, and to Thee is the returning.’

Unquote

Thanks

Dear brother,

Perhaps you can tell me why in Quran, Isa is called Kalimathullah, but not the others, including Muhammad and your ProphetMessenger.