ADL Calls On Politicians To Refrain From Using Holocaust Imagery

[bilop]

The number of Jews murdered by the Germans is proportionately way higher than the deaths of the others and so it is more than appropriate that they can claim the Holocaust as their own. One might note that the Poles, who saw 3 million Catholics killed by the Germans, do not use the term Shoah or Holocaust to refer to those deaths.

So that made the death of those Jews more tragic than the Catholic Poles or Gypsys? Or the 50 mil Stalin slaughtered? Or the 100+ million killed by abortion?

No! You can’t say one life is worth more than another. That is pure racism.

God Bless

 

[Richardols]

So that made the death of those Jews more tragic than the Catholic Poles or Gypsys? Or the 50 mil Stalin slaughtered? Or the 100+ million killed by abortion?

No! You can’t say one life is worth more than another. That is pure racism.

God Bless

This hasn’t to do with the value of those lives. It has to do with other people taking a term the Jews use exclusively to refer to the murder of the Jews by the Germans and appropriating it for their own purposes.

 

[Kaninchen]

Hm

I wonder if Catholics might allow us to keep ‘Shoah’ or ‘Endlösung’ (as the Germans called it) or will it be necessary for those terms to be available for whatever/whenever deemed necessary?

 

[Richardols]

Hm

I wonder if Catholics might allow us to keep ‘Shoah’ or ‘Endlösung’ (as the Germans called it) or will it be necessary for those terms to be available for whatever/whenever deemed necessary?

Ha-Shoah is, of course, the Hebrew term for the Holocaust and both terms should/must remain the exclusive terms to describe the Horror perpetrated by the Germans against the Jews.

The latter term means “final solution” for those unfamiliar with German.

 

[Brendan]

Ha-Shoah is, of course, the Hebrew term for the Holocaust and both terms should/must remain the exclusive terms to describe the Horror perpetrated by the Germans against the Jews.

The latter term means “final solution” for those unfamiliar with German.

The word "holocaust’ existed before 1939, it’s even used in the Douay Rheims Bible, so it’s hardly the property of the Jewish people or specific to a particular historical event.

Here is the Webster’s defintion of the word

Main Entry: ho·lo·caust
Pronunciation: \ˈhō-lə-ˌkȯst, ˈhä- also -ˌkäst or ˈhȯ-lə-kȯst\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin holocaustum, from Greek holokauston, from neuter of holokaustos burnt whole, from holo-, whole, + kaustos burnt, from kaiein to burn — more at caustic
Date: 13th century
1: a sacrifice consumed by fire
2:** a thorough destruction involving extensive loss of life especially through fire **
3 aoften capitalized : the mass slaughter of European civilians and especially Jews by the Nazis during World War II —usually used with the b: a mass slaughter of people; especially : genocide

I see no reason what-so-ever, that a person cannot use the term as it’s properly defined, especially in the 2nd definition, to refer to a large loss of life, especially through fire.

If they want their own, private term, fine, they have Ha-Shoah, but no one ever said that they had private copyrights to the word ‘Holocaust’

 

[Richardols]

The word "holocaust’ existed before 1939, it’s even used in the Douay Rheims Bible, so it’s hardly the property of the Jewish people.

But it has now become so, thanks to the Germans.

I see no reason what-so-ever, that a person cannot use the term as it’s properly defined, especially in the 2nd definition, to refer to a large loss of life, especially through fire.

You are quite right, but who is using it that way?

If they want their own, private term, fine, they have Ha-Shoah, but no one ever said that they had private copyrights to the word ‘Holocaust’

The term was first used to described what the Germans did to the Jews. Millions of Ukranians died at Stalin’s hands, but the term holocaust wasn’t used to describe that, and the Japanese murdered millions of Chinese, but the term holocaust isn’t used for that either.

I’d say the Jews own that term when used to describe mass murders; if you want to use it to mean a burnt offering, then anyone can use it. IMO.

 

[LRThunder]

The number of Jews murdered by the Germans is proportionately way higher than the deaths of the others and so it is more than appropriate that they can claim the Holocaust as their own. One might note that the Poles, who saw 3 million Catholics killed by the Germans, do not use the term Shoah or Holocaust to refer to those deaths.

I realize that there were more Jews killed in the Holocaust then anybody else, but to claim it as their own while ignoring the other victims smacks, ironically, of ethnic superiority.

 

[Brendan]

But it has now become so, thanks to the Germans.

Explain how the Germans have the right to give an English word to Jews? Did the Germans have the copyright to the word?

You are quite right, but who is using it that way?

Pro-Life adovcates for one, to describe the large loss of life from the chemial burns of saline abortions ., and as far as using the term "nuclear holocaust’, just Google on that, even the BBC is using that term.

The term was **first used **to described what the Germans did to the Jews.

HUH?? Didn’t you read what I said, the word is used in the Douay-Rheims Bible, as in early 17th century. Are you honestly claiming The D-R Bible was describing a 20th century event

Millions of Ukranians died at Stalin’s hands, but the term holocaust wasn’t used to describe that, and the Japanese murdered millions of Chinese, but the term holocaust isn’t used for that either.

I’d say the Jews own that term when used to describe mass murders; if you want to use it to mean a burnt offering, then anyone can use it. IMO.

You could say it, but you’d be wrong. Websters says it can be used to describe any large loss of life, and as long as it’s in Websters, I see no problem with anyone using it in that context.

If you disagree, talk to them. They are the etymology experts, not you, I or the ADL.

 

[Kaninchen]

Hm

I guess that the answer is that we’ll continue to use ‘Holocaust’ to refer to the ‘Shoah’ and Catholics will continue to use it whatever way they want and we can all carry on resenting one another.

 

[st_lucy]

What I don’t understand is how is it that the name or title Holocaust can only be used by Jew’s? Have they bothered to look past their own nose to see that many many nations have been persecuted. What about the Holocaust of the Native Americans, or the Holocaust of Darfur, or the holocaust of Bosnia-Herzegovina, or the Holocaust of Rwanda, or the holocaust of Cambodia, or the holocaust of Turkey and so on and so on.

The fact is the Jewish does a huge discredit to themselves and all those who have suffered genocide to include the millions of children killed by abortionist.

 

[st_lucy]

The number of Jews murdered by the Germans is proportionately way higher than the deaths of the others and so it is more than appropriate that they can claim the Holocaust as their own. One might note that the Poles, who saw 3 million Catholics killed by the Germans, do not use the term Shoah or Holocaust to refer to those deaths.

I highly doubt this statement, but even if it were true, WHAT!

So because group x was persecuted by a horrible regime before group y. Group x can tell group y to suck it up, because only they (group x)can claim they have been hurt or persecuted?!

Where is the common sense in this!? You would think it in the best interest to have both groups come together to stop it from happening to another group so that NO ONE goes through it.

I am sorry but who ever is taking this claim in OP seriously need to really rethink their position on human rights.

 

[Norseman82]

If the ADL guy would only see the parallels in the reasons the Nazis used to murder 12 million Jews, Poles, etc. and the pro-abortionists’ reasons for keeping abortion legal, he would be frightened to see history repeating itself.

 

[Brendan]

The One might note that the Poles, who saw 3 million Catholics killed by the Germans, do not use the term Shoah or Holocaust to refer to those deaths.

Imagine that, Poles not using Hebrew or English words to describe something. I’m suppose they are doing something unexpected…like using Polish words.

 

[MelanieAnne]

This is just preposterous. No group can own a word. Words are not for sale. They’re not assets. Words are simply a means of communication.

But beyond that, ADL has this upside down. What is usually given as the point of all the memorials and all the regular references to the holocaust ~ i.e. the genocide carried out against Jews by the Nazis ~ is the point that we need to remember, so it doesn’t happen again. We must not forget, so we need to be reminded. And because nothing that we say can bring back those who died, we at least have to be sure that it never recurs. “Never Again” is the motto.

Well, when millions of people are being systematically slaughtered, it IS happening again. So all those reminders don’t seem to be having the desired effect. Calling another episode of genocide a “holocaust” does not diminish or otherwise adversely affect the history of the Jews murdered by the Nazis. Instead, it brings their murder to mind. It lets the world know that, despite the best intentions, genocide IS happening again. It honors those who were murdered, it reinforces the example that such things should not be allowed to continue. It makes “Never Again” something more than a slogan.

 

[Kaninchen]

So, do you think that we could have ‘Shoah’ for ourselves or will you need that too - in case you feel like using it for something else?

 

[MelanieAnne]

So, do you think that we could have ‘Shoah’ for ourselves or will you need that too - in case you feel like using it for something else?

OK, if we’re into late-night silliness I can also ask you why you apparently believe that you have property rights to a word, or to a concept.

LOTS of episodes of genocide have happened over the course of human history, even recent human history. Some are still being carried out today. Many of them far outstrip the loss of life suffered by the Jews under the Nazis. So if it’s just a numbers game, then some other group has already “won” the right to use the word holocaust.

Of course there were millions of people murdered by the Nazis, no one argues against that. There were also Jews who suffered under the Nazis, and were even confined, but were not murdered. I know, because I have some personal friends in that group. Yeah those, the ones that had the tattoos removed.

SO, as long as you seem to want to be silly, I’ll ask you. When 6 million die and because they are Jewish, we appropriate and reserve the word “holocaust” to describe the event, then what do we call it when 20 million die? Or 50 million? Do we need a new word? If so, what?

Are you saying that since the Jews are “the chosen people” that they get to choose a special word and keep it, just for them? Or what? (Remember, this is late-nite silliness & you started it!) Because you keep making these dark, negative statements, very uncharitable and anti-Catholic, but you don’t actually explain yourself or offer anything useful. You just tear down and complain. That’s not helpful, that’s not dialog. Actually it seems more like whining. Why not be constructive?

 

[Kaninchen]

OK, if we’re into late-night silliness I can also ask you why you apparently believe that you have property rights to a word, or to a concept.

Actually, since I’m in Europe, it’s breakfast time.

Last time we came across one another, we (sort of) agreed to avoid each other.

 

[st_lucy]

So, do you think that we could have ‘Shoah’ for ourselves or will you need that too - in case you feel like using it for something else?

I was unsure if you were just being silly with this thought that Jews own the word holocaust, but from this post I am guessing that you are serious. So I am wondering what makes you think that no other group of genocide could use this term. Is it because you think that the Holocaust of the Jews was the worst? Or maybe because it was the most severer? Or because it was the most in numbers?

Well if you say yes to any of these I have news for you. Not only is this not true, it wasn’t even true for its time. The worst holocaust during WWII was not in Europe but in China and although both groups had to face horror, I would have to say the China’s horror was greater mostly because they had no help. No one was coming to their rescue.

When a group tries to coin a term for their own, especially this term, it gives discredit to all those who have to suffer these horrors from then on. People are always saying stuff like we have to remember the “holocaust” (which is always only thought of as the holocaust of the Jews during WWII - mostly because that is the way the Jews want it remembered) and never let it happen again. Well because we are only allowed to remember or use the term “holocaust” as the what happened to the Jews, we are forgetting all the other equally or more horrific holocausts that have happened before and after and are still happening to this day. So I always get just a little teed off when I hear stuff like we can’t let the holocaust happen again. Well guess what it has happened again and is still happening and will keep happening until we start realizing that holocaust does not just mean what happened to the Jews during WWII.

Those Jewish people,(or groups) and I mean only those few, who wont get off their soap box of “oh look at us poor people who have been persecuted, but don’t look at all those others who are also being persecuted because we are much more important” really need to be brought out to be shown as the bigots they are. People are dying, children are dying and because they are too busy looking at themselves and not letting anyone else see that abortion is a holocaust of the children, they are either knowingly or unknowingly contributing to this horrific unjust in our world today.

 

[Kaninchen]

I was unsure if you were just being silly with this thought that Jews own the word holocaust, but from this post I am guessing that you are serious. So I am wondering what makes you think that no other group of genocide could use this term. Is it because you think that the Holocaust of the Jews was the worst? Or maybe because it was the most severer? Or because it was the most in numbers?

Because it was an experience of a people - industrialized death, death as a production line brought about by one of the most civilized countries in the world ‘gone mad’. The Shoah was unique not because of the numbers but because of the whole way in which it was carried out - the programmed efficiency of a modern industrialized society.

I wonder just why you feel it necessary to colonize this - I don’t feel it necessary to colonize or minimize the experience of the Irish in ‘The Famine’ for example, neither do I feel it necessary to colonize or minimize the experience of, say, the Armenians. I don’t find it necessary to say to somebody Irish “more people died in famines in China, India and the Ukraine so stop making fuss” or, to an Armenian “hey, look at Rwanda, you people want to pretend that what happened to you was worse than anybody else”.

In the end, we’re not going to agree, we’re not going to agree to disagree, we’re just going to carry on resenting one another - we’ve been at it for a couple of millennia so both sides have become quite good at it.

 

[bones_IV]

I was unsure if you were just being silly with this thought that Jews own the word holocaust, but from this post I am guessing that you are serious. So I am wondering what makes you think that no other group of genocide could use this term. Is it because you think that the Holocaust of the Jews was the worst? Or maybe because it was the most severer? Or because it was the most in numbers?

Well if you say yes to any of these I have news for you. Not only is this not true, it wasn’t even true for its time. The worst holocaust during WWII was not in Europe but in China and although both groups had to face horror, I would have to say the China’s horror was greater mostly because they had no help. No one was coming to their rescue.

When a group tries to coin a term for their own, especially this term, it gives discredit to all those who have to suffer these horrors from then on. People are always saying stuff like we have to remember the “holocaust” (which is always only thought of as the holocaust of the Jews during WWII - mostly because that is the way the Jews want it remembered) and never let it happen again. Well because we are only allowed to remember or use the term “holocaust” as the what happened to the Jews, we are forgetting all the other equally or more horrific holocausts that have happened before and after and are still happening to this day. So I always get just a little teed off when I hear stuff like we can’t let the holocaust happen again. Well guess what it has happened again and is still happening and will keep happening until we start realizing that holocaust does not just mean what happened to the Jews during WWII.

Those Jewish people,(or groups) and I mean only those few, who wont get off their soap box of “oh look at us poor people who have been persecuted, but don’t look at all those others who are also being persecuted because we are much more important” really need to be brought out to be shown as the bigots they are. People are dying, children are dying and because they are too busy looking at themselves and not letting anyone else see that abortion is a holocaust of the children, they are either knowingly or unknowingly contributing to this horrific unjust in our world today.

I find it amazing that there are those who use the holocaust as a political platform to bash Catholicism when they get the golden opportunity. Those who are offended at the fact that genocide in China was far worse are most likely racists themselves!