Adultery?

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What you have said is correct i guess.

But, nobody knows God! Nobody ‘really’ knows what he thinks and what he does in circumstances such as those in my thread.

The priest obviously is speaking with Jesus in his heart. Only God knows each of us. Only he can say what is right and what is wrong.I really dont believe that you can read what is said in the bible and take it at face value, in black and white. We are human beings. Vulnerable, weak, insecure. God is ‘ALL FORGIVING’.

Apparently the priest told her to continue to serve the church and to take communion as she needs the nourishment of Christ.
That is true that nobody really knows God, but Jesus does. It is also true God loves and understands us but it does not mean He will bend the laws He set for us. For God to bend the laws, that will imply that God Himself is not unchanging and is unjust. Do you recall the passage where Jesus saved the prostitute from being stoned to death? He told her that she was forgiven and to repent, which she did.

What you are relating to me however seems that she does not wish to call the cops/divorce the man/fix the marriage (who she claims to be beating her up) but wishes to continue an affair outside of the marriage due to the warped logic that there is no love in the current marriage and for the sake of the kids (its not safe for the kids when they have a violent father). You are assuming God will allow the sin of adultery in such circumstances.

I was not there to hear what the priest told your sister in order to know what was being said, and I doubt you were there too. But just so you know, having sinned and taking Holy Communion without going to confession with true contrition is a sacrilege. That also holds true for people who goes to confession but is not repentant at all, but yet took Holy Communion. What you are telling me is she confessed, took Holy Communion and still wishes to continue to participate in this affair.

I cannot stress this enough to people. If you have sinned and is not repentant at all, no matter whether you have went to confession or not, you cannot take Holy Communion. It is a sacrilege.

Adding to that, you are also assuming that the priest who heard her confession is giving her the green light that it is okay for her to continue the affair, simply because he told her to continue to serve the church.
We all make mistakes. Some marriages can be a mistake. God knows that.
Yes we all do, I do too. But it does not mean we should commit another mistake on top of another. Is there another alternative? Yes. If both parties truly cannot work it out and get a civil divorce, get an annulment from the church (if the church will agree), then she is free to be with another partner. You cannot take God’s laws in your own hands.

If you would like a more reliable help to this, I would advice you to post this question on the Ask An Apologist section.
 
A person who is conscious of grave sin is not to . . . receive the body of the Lord without previous sacramental confession unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition which includes the resolution of confessing as soon as possible. (CIC 916)
When a person conscious of mortal sin receives the Eucharist without prior forgiveness he commits another mortal sin and only compounds his desperate situation. Paul tells us, “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord” (1 Cor. 11:27). The Church calls this sacrilege:
Sacrilege consists in profaning or treating unworthily the sacraments and other liturgical actions, as well as persons, things, or places consecrated to God. Sacrilege is a grave sin especially when committed against the Eucharist, for in this sacrament the true Body of Christ is made substantially present for us. (CCC 2120)
catholic.com/quickquestions/must-we-confess-before-receiving-communion-because-god-cannot-be-in-the-presence-of-s
 
Her husband is not abusive etc. Just they dont love each other after 30yrs of marriage. All gone and they have tried to revive it many times but without success.

I agree that she shouldnt take Holy Communion.

I disagree where you say God would not ‘bend’ his so called rules. God would not treat all of us the same. We are all individuals with different ways of life and needs. I am sure, that God is more than willing to help people out when times are tough and when many obstacles meet our paths. Not everyone is the same and every ‘bump’ in life can be very different for many people.

Carrying on behind ones back is not nice or healthy. Chaste as it may be it is wrong but where love is concerned it can be very hard to control.

God knows each of us. He knows our own personal issues. I am sure he treats each one of us as needs be. Its not cut and dried as you state.

Apparently the priest mentioned ‘David’ from the OT to my sister and how he was bad etc and what went on with him. God is all forgiving, all loving. I know that he will guide and help people in these situations. God is not as clear cut as you suggest. This ‘i’ believe anyway.
 
I disagree where you say God would not ‘bend’ his so called rules. God would not treat all of us the same. We are all individuals with different ways of life and needs. I am sure, that God is more than willing to help people out when times are tough and when many obstacles meet our paths. Not everyone is the same and every ‘bump’ in life can be very different for many people.

Carrying on behind ones back is not nice or healthy. Chaste as it may be it is wrong but where love is concerned it can be very hard to control.

God knows each of us. He knows our own personal issues. I am sure he treats each one of us as needs be. Its not cut and dried as you state.

Apparently the priest mentioned ‘David’ from the OT to my sister and how he was bad etc and what went on with him. God is all forgiving, all loving. I know that he will guide and help people in these situations. God is not as clear cut as you suggest. This ‘i’ believe anyway.
Of course God will forgive her if she is repentant. Its also true God will guide her, but that doesn’t mean she can drown herself in the same sin and expect God to spoon feed her w/o making any effort to repent.

What you are asking is if having an affair outside a marriage is a sin, adding to the fact that she wishes to continue the affair even after the confession.

Anyways, I will leave you to justify such deeds with your own perception of morality since it seems like you want people to agree with you that our God shows favoritism and bends the rules He set for different people.

My apologies but I cannot betray my own conscience to agree with warped morality and justifications of God’s teachings, no offense. Having said all I could, I leave you to your own resources in finding truth.

God Bless.
 
Ok, married for 30 years. Gets very friendly with a member of opposite sex who is also married. No sex. But cuddles, holding hands. Comforting and loving. Both agree to no sex at all.

Both sets of partners are non loving so that is why above has happened.

Is the above adultery?
It soon will be.
 
It is definitely cheating and unfair on the couples partners but what if the marriages were dead and nothing could revive them but they were still together only for the sake of the children?

If a woman or man get married and years down the line the marriage dries up and there is absolutely no love there at all even after years of trying what does one do?
So does that mean that you should romance another man’s wife?

If it’s “unfair and cheating” why are you continuing to do it? In answer to your question…A marriage doesn’t just “die” or “dry up”. It may deteriorate over time, but only if you let it. And cuddling with another man’s wife is not “reviving” it, nor is it doing anything “for the sake of the children”. If you honestly were only together just for the sake of the children, then why not give your marriage 100% for the sake of your children instead of declaring it dead and then giving it to another man’s wife? Why are you selling your children so short?

No, you are playing a dangerous game with your soul by rationalizing a gravely sinful decision that is harming two families. You are recognizing the “unfairness”, but are still progressing in this relationship because you are only thinking about yourself…not the children involved, not your wife, not the other spouse involved, the other woman, or even your own immortal soul. If you really cared about this other woman, then you wouldn’t jeopardize her eternal salvation. You need to go to Confession, cut ties with this woman, and start pouring all that energy and passion into your wife. It won’t be overnight, but with time the spark will be back.
 
Let’s put it this way… If your DS and you both truly believe she isn’t doing anything wrong then suggest she, her affair partner, her husband and his wife have a chat where the cheating spouses admit to the details of their affair. I’m sure it’ll be wonderful. After all, they aren’t doing anything wrong so long as they don’t have sex, right?
 
My sister is old enough to decide for herself what path to take. I was just posting about the complexities of it all and beliefs of both myself and your own views here from this great forum.

What they decide to do is not up to me.

For me though i can see the persons sides as i have known them all my life! I know what is and has been going on. I know myself that the marriages are unreconcilable.

They are only staying with their spouses because of the children. If there were no children they would have divorced many years ago.

Yes, it is sinful what they are doing. But, how can one give up someone that they have been looking for all their lives? That would prove to be extremely difficult. This, i know is what my sister has told me. Having lived a stale marriage for so long which she has tried many times to get back on track without success has ‘suddenly’ (Over several months) fallen in love with someone other than the spouse.

The priest did not condone what she is doing but he also didnt condemn her to hell! He was very understanding indeed. Very caring to her. Now, this was all in the confessional. Doesnt Our Lord speak through the priest in the confessional?

He told her that God loves her and understand her. God is all forgiving.

He told her not to do anything rash, like announce everything from a hill top about the love struggle. He wants her to think about what is happening to her and her ‘Friend’. He told her she needs the Eucharist to nourish her soul and help her. I truly believe that this comes from God. God knows us all as individuals with individual needs etc.

Gods ‘wrath’ is not cut and dried. I am sure in my heart that he is more understanding than what some on here make out.

I guess the priest was referring to King David when he mentioned him to my sister. A man full of terrible sins but whom God loved.

Everyone deserves a 2nd chance in life and i believe that includes marriage too. For better for worse is something that not everyone can do and not ‘every’ ‘single’ relationship can manage until death!

With my dear sister it is a fact of life that she married the wrong person! It has taken 30 years of endurance to find that out, but, she is only there waiting until the kids turn 18, or when they decide to leave the nest etc where they can then fend for themselves. At the moment they are too vulnerable to a split in marriage. If it did happen then so be it but she wants to keep that from them as does the other partner.

She has found love. Ok, sinful as it is, she has found love. Happiness. She is distraught at sinning against God but unless each of us find ourselves in a similar situation then it may seem easy now to tell her what to do!
 
What they decide to do is not up to me.

No, but you can help guide her with both understanding and firmness.

For me though i can see the persons sides as i have known them all my life! I know what is and has been going on. I know myself that the marriages are unreconcilable.

No, you don’t. No one outside of a marriage ever truly knows what’s going on inside the marriage. That’s not a reflection of you and your DS’s relationship, but a simple reality.

They are only staying with their spouses because of the children. If there were no children they would have divorced many years ago.

That is also one of the most common excuses and rationalizations adulterers use. The truth is that it’s more likely one or both of them will stay with their spouses.

Yes, it is sinful what they are doing. But, how can one give up someone that they have been looking for all their lives?

At one point, their spouses were the people they had been looking for all their lives. Just thought I should point that out.

He told her not to do anything rash, like announce everything from a hill top about the love struggle. He wants her to think about what is happening to her and her ‘Friend’. He told her she needs the Eucharist to nourish her soul and help her. I truly believe that this comes from God. God knows us all as individuals with individual needs etc.

It sounds like the priest is trying to help your sister turn her back on her sinful relationship. He wants her to know God’s love is infinite, yes. He doesn’t want her shouting her affair from the rooftops because that increases the chances there will be a divorce. I’d take a guess and say he’s hoping that he can help her to see both that she is beloved of God and that what she is doing is damaging both her and her partners soul. He’s probably hoping she will repent, end the affair, and return to being a faithful wife without needlessly harming the innocent spouses.

Everyone deserves a 2nd chance in life and i believe that includes marriage too. For better for worse is something that not everyone can do and not ‘every’ ‘single’ relationship can manage until death!

No, marriage for life is not something everyone can do. But the fact is that the Church teaches that a valid marriage is for life and one is not free to have any romantic relationship unless/until a marriage has been civilly ended and is declared null. Of course your sister would be free to leave her marriage and divorce. What she is not free to do is fool around while in a presumably valid marriage nor is she free to fool around with someone who is married.

With my dear sister it is a fact of life that she married the wrong person! It has taken 30 years of endurance to find that out, but, she is only there waiting until the kids turn 18, or when they decide to leave the nest etc where they can then fend for themselves. At the moment they are too vulnerable to a split in marriage. If it did happen then so be it but she wants to keep that from them as does the other partner.

Have either of them seriously considered that having an affair, if they were to be found out, greatly increases the chances that there will be a divorce initiated by their wronged spouses and that should the affair become known their kids will no longer trust them, no longer consider them credible sources when it comes to morals and will lose respect for them as well as possibly side with the other parent?

She has found love. Ok, sinful as it is, she has found love. Happiness. She is distraught at sinning against God but unless each of us find ourselves in a similar situation then it may seem easy now to tell her what to do!
I’ve been there. I also took responsibility for my actions ( the “marriage” and the affairs), stopped making excuses and rationalizing the situation, and filed for divorce. It was the decent and honest thing to do.

As someone who has been there I can honestly say that if I was that darn concerned for the kids I would have stayed at home with them instead of being out with my paramour.

If I was that darn concerned about sin and offending God I would have stopped committing the same sin over and over.

And if I was that darn in love with my affair partner I would have filed for divorce to marry and build a life with him. (This happened long before I came back to Christianity in general and discovered Catholicism in particular. So, I had no problems with remarrying.)

An affair is easy. You’re seeing nothing but the best of each other. You’re not having to deal with the less flattering sides of each others personalities or the realities and stresses of day to day life together. You can tell yourselves anything you want to justify the thing you are doing and you start to believe it. In your affair partner you’ve got a built in cheering section reinforcing your BS. It’s new. It’s exciting. It’s an addictive cocktail of hormones and chemicals released in your brain. It’s all fun and games. That’s not love. That’s not a real relationship.

Has she also considered that if her affair partner will cheat on his wife of however long he’s also likely to cheat on her? Has she considered that because she is cheating on her husband with him should they actually leave their spouses he will likely be suspicious of her and think she has/is/will cheat on him, too? That’s the nasty part of finding your new partner while you’re both married. You both end up with a cheater.
 
All your points are valid and understood.

Out of my hands as i dont want to get too involved. I can help, yes, but only so much.

Many thanks everyone for your time and posts 👍
 
ajecphotos, does that mean you are closing the subject? I have thoughts, but I maybe not have time to express them before Christmas. So many thoughts! Particularly because I have been in your sister’s shoes - very, very lonely in a long, bad marriage. I can tell you about that, but I don’t’ have time to compose the words. Just a few thoughts for now.

Do you think maybe they are playing with fire? You know human nature. If she is in love and lonely, and her lover is, and they are allowing a little touching and holding, then doesn’t it get to be pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to not let nature take its course? Unless your sister is a particularly de-sexed sort of person. For normal people, its another matter.

So saying yes to how things are now means that sooner or later they *will *get sexually involved. And then its much, much harder to stop. And the life complications multiply exponentially!

One complication is a hostile husband can feel justified in becoming far more hostile, and it can reach a crisis. If he decides to leave and break up the family, he will surely turn the children against her. He can play a martyr role, wronged by their mother, its her fault, he’d say. She could risk losing the children in divorce with this love affair as ammunition.

Same for her lover.

In this early stage of infatuation they are free to enjoy the intoxication of adultery in their minds, while also enjoying the goods of their respective marriages. As long as they continue to deceive their spouses, and as long as they are able to keep hiding their actions from them (God sees, but the spouses don’t), they can enjoy having their children in an intact home, enjoy their spouses income, and the real stability that comes with that. Perhaps the lover’s wife takes care of his children so he can earn a living, and not pay a babysitter or housekeeper. And he can spend time with your sister thanks to her! So, she is useful, as long as she remains deceived. Also they can keep their pleasant place of “intact family” in society, and avoid the social disapproval of breaking up their families.

Yes, they can keep enjoying these “goods”,* as long as *they keep living in deceit.

But one can only keep up deceit so long. We all know this. Its the same theme we see in all drama, books, plays, movies, and real life. Deceit makes life very complicated, and its not a good foundation. Lies get heavier and heaveir, and it all comes tumbling down. “Oh, what a tangled web we weave. When first we practice to deceive!”

Does the end justify the means? The Church says no. Will God say to them, and to you, who supported them, "Well, yes, I said that for* other *people. But you are an exception!"

When they get sexually involved, they will get sloppier in covering their tracks and they will be found out and all will be exposed. Then divorce and custody battles. Right now it seems that it would be so wonderful to be free of bad marriages and in each other arms, but when lives get ruined and they have to deal with the lies and accusations of the spurned spouses (who may well “deserve” to be spurned - however, they are still the spouses they vowed to forsake all others for, and that is what others will see - most won’t stick around to listen to how the spurned spouse was actually a very bad spouse!). The result could easily be irreparably ruined relationships with their children. Then also the grandchildren someday who will adopt the attitudes of their parents. Your sister and her lover may well regret the lack of self-control at this juncture for the rest of their lives.

And then there is you. You are a key person in this juncture. Your sister is seeking your approval and understanding, she would like you to stand by her and see God as *only *merciful, and that He is rather flakey in the justice department. Surely God didn’t really mean it when He said “Though shall not commit adultery” and wrote it on a stone tablet for Moses? Surely Jesus didn’t mean it when he said that just simply lusting in your heart is adultery? Surely God and Jesus really didn’t mean to say those things. They shouldn’t have said them! They just aren’t *useful *in *this *case!

Someday you will have to answer to God for these conversations with your sister, and give an accounting of your influence on her in this vital crossroads of her life. The deeper she gets with her lover, the harder it will be to leave. What does God want you to do or say to her, here and now?

If God thinks she is wrong, and that you are wrong for not standing for God’s way when she asks you to validate her actions, who might God judge more harshly? She, who is caught up in hormonal excitement of illicit love after so much loneliness? Or you, presumably blessed by God to be in a situation to see more clearly?
 
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Excellent post 👍

You are 100% right.

She does confide in me. We are very close. They have both agreed 100% to no sex. That is number 1 for them regarding feelings for each other apparently. They are planning to divorce in several years time once the kids are grown up and settled.

Biggest thing that is affecting my sister is her strong faith and belief in God, She said it is killing her knowing that she is sinning against God.
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Excellent post 👍

You are 100% right.

She does confide in me. We are very close. They have both agreed 100% to no sex. That is number 1 for them regarding feelings for each other apparently. They are planning to divorce in several years time once the kids are grown up and settled.

Biggest thing that is affecting my sister is her strong faith and belief in God, She said it is killing her knowing that she is sinning against God.
If she was that upset she’d end the affair.
 
If only it was that easy!!

There by the grace of God go I
As someone who has been exactly there I can say that it is, indeed, that easy.
We are Human! We are weak!
Since when is being human and weak an excuse for doing the wrong thing over the long term?

I can understand someone saying “I had a weak moment and did something wrong, but I have stopped.” But that is not the same thing as saying “I am aware what I am doing is wrong. I have no intention of stopping. In fact, I am planning on doing this same wrong thing for several more years before I help break up two marriages and destroy two families. The fact that it’s a sin that offends God is sad, but I’m human and I’m weak.”
 
Update:

Sister and ‘partner’ decided to call it a day for now. Sister has stated that her love of God exceeds that of anything else. She wants to remain true to God.

She went to see her priest again today and told this.

They are still in love. Still love each other but have both decided to stop what they have been doing. They both want to be together sometime in the distant future though… But that would be many years away as their kids are still very young.

They are going to concentrate on the kids and their present partners.

My sister loves God so much and the priest told her that she is being tested.

What happens in the future, who knows. She is not going to concern herself with that for now. Most important thing is her sinfulness to God and now she has been to confession to do her very best to be sin free!
 
My sister is old enough to decide for herself what path to take. I was just posting about the complexities of it all and beliefs of both myself and your own views here from this great forum.

What they decide to do is not up to me.

For me though i can see the persons sides as i have known them all my life! I know what is and has been going on. I know myself that the marriages are unreconcilable.

They are only staying with their spouses because of the children. If there were no children they would have divorced many years ago.

Yes, it is sinful what they are doing. But, how can one give up someone that they have been looking for all their lives? That would prove to be extremely difficult. This, i know is what my sister has told me. Having lived a stale marriage for so long which she has tried many times to get back on track without success has ‘suddenly’ (Over several months) fallen in love with someone other than the spouse.

The priest did not condone what she is doing but he also didnt condemn her to hell! He was very understanding indeed. Very caring to her. Now, this was all in the confessional. Doesnt Our Lord speak through the priest in the confessional?

He told her that God loves her and understand her. God is all forgiving.

He told her not to do anything rash, like announce everything from a hill top about the love struggle. He wants her to think about what is happening to her and her ‘Friend’. He told her she needs the Eucharist to nourish her soul and help her. I truly believe that this comes from God. God knows us all as individuals with individual needs etc.

Gods ‘wrath’ is not cut and dried. I am sure in my heart that he is more understanding than what some on here make out.

I guess the priest was referring to King David when he mentioned him to my sister. A man full of terrible sins but whom God loved.

Everyone deserves a 2nd chance in life and i believe that includes marriage too. For better for worse is something that not everyone can do and not ‘every’ ‘single’ relationship can manage until death!

With my dear sister it is a fact of life that she married the wrong person! It has taken 30 years of endurance to find that out, but, she is only there waiting until the kids turn 18, or when they decide to leave the nest etc where they can then fend for themselves. At the moment they are too vulnerable to a split in marriage. If it did happen then so be it but she wants to keep that from them as does the other partner.

She has found love. Ok, sinful as it is, she has found love. Happiness. She is distraught at sinning against God but unless each of us find ourselves in a similar situation then it may seem easy now to tell her what to do!
She should wait until her spouse is dead before thinking about marrying someone else. Divorce and remarriage or even divorce and dating is adultery and adultery is wrong.

Am I condemning her to hell? No.

Edit: Adultery/cheating on a spouse is grave matter

Edit: I didn’t see your update disregard this sorry!!
 
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