Adultery?

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ajecphotos said:
This is what i am on about. My sister, because of the divorce, is not allowed to ‘fall in love’ again due to the church’s teachings! She cannot find a man to love again as to do so is totally against the Catholic teachings.
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That is not true at all. If she goes through with the divorce, she can then apply for an annulment.

If she chooses not to attempt an annulment, then that’s on her, she can’t blame it on the Church.
 
agnes_therese said:
That is not true at all. If she goes through with the divorce, she can then apply for an annulment.

If she chooses not to attempt an annulment, then that’s on her, she can’t blame it on the Church.
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I know. She is not going for an annulment as she thinks she wont get one plus they take years! She just wants to get divorced, be with this guy and happy but still go to church and follow her faith. She knows she is sinning. Still doesnt stop her from loving God and following her faith even if she has betrayed God and her marriage vows.
 
I am worried about the children. Parents messing around tends to have a disasterous effect on the children.
 
ajecphotos said:
I know. She is not going for an annulment as she thinks she wont get one plus they take years! She just wants to get divorced, be with this guy and happy but still go to church and follow her faith. She knows she is sinning. Still doesnt stop her from loving God and following her faith even if she has betrayed God and her marriage vows.
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Its just that she loves something a little more than God right? Especially if she has been judge and jury on her own annulment prospect. How can one love God and have such an attitude about His Church?
 
ajecphotos said:
God is not being put to the test. Prayer is what is being done. Prayer for guidance.
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That is fine, unless there is only one piece of “guidance” that will be accepted as an answer! If you go to God and won’t take “no” for an answer, that really isn’t prayer for guidance, is it?
ajecphotos said:
I know. She is not going for an annulment as she thinks she wont get one plus they take years! She just wants to get divorced, be with this guy and happy but still go to church and follow her faith. She knows she is sinning. Still doesnt stop her from loving God and following her faith even if she has betrayed God and her marriage vows.
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She just wants to keep sinning and act as if it isn’t a sin? She will not even try the way that is available, but rejects it out of hand because it is too hard and takes too long? Surely she can sees that this is how hardheartedness talks?

Tell me–when Jesus answered the Phariees question about divorce, was it Our Lord or the Pharisees who were denying the divorced mercy? Who was teaching the way of God, and who was giving in to the desires of those who sought their guidance?

*Some Pharisees approached him, and tested him, saying, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause whatever?” He said in reply, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate.” They said to him, “Then why did Moses command that the man give the woman a bill of divorce and dismiss (her)?” He said to them, “Because of the hardness of your hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery.” *Matt. 19:3-9

This is what Our Lord said about sins of the flesh:
Woe to the world because of things that cause sin! Such things must come, but woe to the one through whom they come! If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life maimed or crippled than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into fiery Gehenna. Matt. 18:7-9

Did Our Lord say, “Don’t worry, your sins cannot separate you from eternal life, it is too hard and you love them too much, don’t let go of them, you’ll be OK?” No. He teaches us to run from sin, even when the cost is very great, because the cost of not running is even higher. That is how Love speaks to those who are in love their sin.
 
ajecphotos said:
I know. She is not going for an annulment as she thinks she wont get one plus they take years! She just wants to get divorced, be with this guy and happy but still go to church and follow her faith. She knows she is sinning. Still doesnt stop her from loving God and following her faith even if she has betrayed God and her marriage vows.
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From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (underline and underlined boldface mine):

Hope

2090 When God reveals Himself and calls him, man cannot fully respond to the divine love by his own powers. He must hope that God will give him the capacity to love Him in return and to act in conformity with the commandments of charity. Hope is the confident expectation of divine blessing and the beatific vision of God; it is also the fear of offending God’s love and of incurring punishment.

2091 The first commandment is also concerned with sins against hope, namely, despair and presumption:

By despair, man ceases to hope for his personal salvation from God, for help in attaining it or for the forgiveness of his sins. Despair is contrary to God’s goodness, to his justice - for the Lord is faithful to his promises - and to his mercy.

2092 There are two kinds of presumption. Either man presumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high), or he presumes upon God’s almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit)
 
EasterJoy said:
That is fine, unless there is only one piece of “guidance” that will be accepted as an answer! If you go to God and won’t take “no” for an answer, that really isn’t prayer for guidance, is it?

She just wants to keep sinning and act as if it isn’t a sin? She will not even try the way that is available, but rejects it out of hand because it is too hard and takes too long? Surely she can sees that this is how hardheartedness talks?

Tell me–when Jesus answered the Phariees question about divorce, was it Our Lord or the Pharisees who were denying the divorced mercy? Who was teaching the way of God, and who was giving in to the desires of those who sought their guidance?

Some Pharisees approached him, and tested him, saying, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause whatever?” He said in reply, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate.” They said to him, “Then why did Moses command that the man give the woman a bill of divorce and dismiss (her)?” He said to them, "Because of the hardness of your hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery." Matt. 19:3-9

This is what Our Lord said about sins of the flesh:
Woe to the world because of things that cause sin! Such things must come, but woe to the one through whom they come! If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life maimed or crippled than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into fiery Gehenna. Matt. 18:7-9

Did Our Lord say, “Don’t worry, your sins cannot separate you from eternal life, it is too hard and you love them too much, don’t let go of them, you’ll be OK?” No. He teaches us to run from sin, even when the cost is very great, because the cost of not running is even higher. That is how Love speaks to those who are in love their sin.
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Bold bit above: My sister is not marrying anyone else. She just wants to live a chaste life with this other guy.

How many people commit Adultery daily just by thinking of someone else? It is hard i know. But unlike a lot on here i truly believe that God in his Mercy looks at people on a one to one basis. I am sure he does not treat everyone the same!
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Its just that she loves something a little more than God right? Especially if she has been judge and jury on her own annulment prospect. How can one love God and have such an attitude about His Church?
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Sometimes one doesnt need to go another step when one knows that it is insurmountable!

‘His Church’ as you put it is not a pure church! Lots going on behind closed doors that i am sure God is not happy with!

She Loves God massively. She loves this guy very much. If God told her to ditch him she would. Maybe God will, in his own way?
 
Dear ajecphotos,

I have watched this thread with great interest and feel the need to speak out. As mentioned previously, I am recovering from the infidelity of my wife. 97% of men who have been through this say it is the worst thing they have ever been through and I would agree. My father committed suicide; this has been 1,000,000 times worse and I would not wish it on MY WORST ENEMY.

I have read your comments in earnest and feel as though you are making every excuse possible to justify your family members actions. Her and her spouse once saw something in each other to make them fall in love; they were a gift to each other from God Himself.

I have just renewed my vows (actually a con-validation ceremony in the eyes of the Church). My wife and I treated it with the utmost respect, even going as far as to take pre-Cana classes to learn about God’s plan for marriage. We somehow lasted 23 years without God first and foremost. God smacked us upside the head to get His attention as to His plan and we now “get it.” God hates divorce!!! I am ashamed to admit it but having been married in the Protestant Church, I had no clue as to Catholic teaching on the Sacrament of Marriage.

First and foremost, my wife and I as well as your family member are Sacrament, what an incredibly humbling thought. Sacrament just as Holy Orders and the Holy Eucharist. Another thing I learned is my new favorite word: indissoluble. Can not be broken except by death. For better or worse. I have personally been through worse, it is possible with God’s help but it takes WORK, PRAYER, and an incredible FAITH.

Our society has cheapened marriage to the point of for better or worse or until we fall out of love or until I find someone better, etc. We are very good at “for better” but not so much in the “for worse.” Our society teaches that “what’s in it for me” always takes precedent over commitment, vows, and God’s plan. I pray for your situation but feel as though she is not willing to put in the work required. She is trusting her feelings over trusting God.

Lastly, Hoosierdaddy commented on her loving someone or something more than God. I was personally guilty of that myself. I worshiped my wife; I now realize that she is a sinner just like me and that God must come first, even before her. Now that we have both put God first and done the hard work, the changes taking place in our house, relationship, and family life are nothing short of miraculous. If we can do this, she can as well but she can not continue worshiping someone other than God and trusting her feelings over God’s plan.

Your Brother in Christ,

HollowGhost
 
ajecphotos said:
Still doesnt stop her from loving God and following her faith even if she has betrayed God and her marriage vows.
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I suggest reading that sentence over. Several times. Do you really not see the contradiction? :confused:
 
Ajecphotos, you are looking for validation of your sister’s plan to cohabitate with a man who is not her husband, an arrangement they are choosing–are they not?–because and only because they are not free to marry. She hopes she can enjoy this other man and he can enjoy her as if they were in a Josephite marriage, even though they are not free to marry at all. You are not going to find validation for that plan here. I would be astonished if you ever find it from someone who has spent his life hearing confessions, either. Separating with the bond remaining is a move that may be morally permissible, that is something she has to discern with the help of her pastor, but living with man other than her husband when her first marriage has not been found invalid is not on the table. It is forbidden.

She can have her way, or she can have God’s way. She needs to count the cost and decide where her priorities lie. That isn’t going to change by continuing to beat this question to death with rationalizations.
 
👍 Hollowghost’s post is one of the most honest, humble and insightful posts I’ve read on here in ages. God bless you for posting.
 
HollowGhost said:
Dear ajecphotos,

I have watched this thread with great interest and feel the need to speak out. As mentioned previously, I am recovering from the infidelity of my wife. 97% of men who have been through this say it is the worst thing they have ever been through and I would agree. My father committed suicide; this has been 1,000,000 times worse and I would not wish it on MY WORST ENEMY.

I have read your comments in earnest and feel as though you are making every excuse possible to justify your family members actions. Her and her spouse once saw something in each other to make them fall in love; they were a gift to each other from God Himself.

I have just renewed my vows (actually a con-validation ceremony in the eyes of the Church). My wife and I treated it with the utmost respect, even going as far as to take pre-Cana classes to learn about God’s plan for marriage. We somehow lasted 23 years without God first and foremost. God smacked us upside the head to get His attention as to His plan and we now “get it.” God hates divorce!!! I am ashamed to admit it but having been married in the Protestant Church, I had no clue as to Catholic teaching on the Sacrament of Marriage.

First and foremost, my wife and I as well as your family member are Sacrament, what an incredibly humbling thought. Sacrament just as Holy Orders and the Holy Eucharist. Another thing I learned is my new favorite word: indissoluble. Can not be broken except by death. For better or worse. I have personally been through worse, it is possible with God’s help but it takes WORK, PRAYER, and an incredible FAITH.

Our society has cheapened marriage to the point of for better or worse or until we fall out of love or until I find someone better, etc. We are very good at “for better” but not so much in the “for worse.” Our society teaches that “what’s in it for me” always takes precedent over commitment, vows, and God’s plan. I pray for your situation but feel as though she is not willing to put in the work required. She is trusting her feelings over trusting God.

Lastly, Hoosierdaddy commented on her loving someone or something more than God. I was personally guilty of that myself. I worshiped my wife; I now realize that she is a sinner just like me and that God must come first, even before her. Now that we have both put God first and done the hard work, the changes taking place in our house, relationship, and family life are nothing short of miraculous. If we can do this, she can as well but she can not continue worshiping someone other than God and trusting her feelings over God’s plan.

Your Brother in Christ,

HollowGhost
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This is a brave and clear-headed post.

OP, you cannot go in circles enough times to get to the destination you want to reach. There is only where your sister is, and a thousand years of wishful thinking will not move her from where she is. The picture is not going to change by rationalizing it to death.
 
EasterJoy said:
Ajecphotos, you are looking for validation of your sister’s plan to cohabitate with a man who is not her husband, an arrangement they are choosing–are they not?–because and only because they are not free to marry. She hopes she can enjoy this other man and he can enjoy her as if they were in a Josephite marriage, even though they are not free to marry at all. You are not going to find validation for that plan here. I would be astonished if you ever find it from someone who has spent his life hearing confessions, either. Separating with the bond remaining is a move that may be morally permissible, that is something she has to discern with the help of her pastor, but living with man other than her husband when her first marriage has not been found invalid is not on the table. It is forbidden.

She can have her way, or she can have God’s way. She needs to count the cost and decide where her priorities lie. That isn’t going to change by continuing to beat this question to death with rationalizations.
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Thank you for your honest reply. I do agree with you and you have all been so kind in your replies.

Yes, i guess i am clutching at straws hoping that i will find someone that can give the reply i want to hear!

You kind people are so right and i thank you so much for your honesty and friendship.

I guess my sister will have to do what she thinks best. I know that she loves this guy so so much. I also know that she loves God with all her heart and soul and mind and body but she feels like an elastic band (her words) being pulled in all directions!

She knows that her marriage is over but she also knows that she loves this new guy in her life so much that she cant turn her back on him.

She loves God with her life and would give her life for God. She also knows how sinful she is behaving! I know that as she cant give up this guy the only thing she can do is to pray to God for his mercy! I pray that God will understand and be merciful.

Nothing else i can do or say, I have tried!

God bless you all 👍
 
ajecphotos said:
Yes, i guess i am clutching at straws hoping that i will find someone that can give the reply i want to hear! 👍
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But what good does that do? What good is it if someone on the internet tells you what you want to hear? It doesn’t save or damn anyone. It doesn’t change a sin into a blessing and it does not change selfishness into obedience.

Would you really go to sleep better and feel better about your loved one if we all had lied and told you what you want to hear? Would it really feel better if this thread was 300 replies of “God is merciful and perhaps is working in opposition to his Church for your sister’s happiness”?
 
I know. The replies have been honest and truthful. I thank God for those who have replied with this good advice and true faith in God.

You are right people. She needs to turn away from sin, now! 👍

God bless you all
 
Update:

People, my sister has seen a good priest friend of hers and now after much prayer and reflection has decided to part from her new friend!

She just cannot bring herself to be apart from God! However much she has tried to please herself and her friend and God she has come to realise that she needs God more than anything in her life! She said she cannot be without the Eucharist etc.

She has suffered terribly over this as she has been depressed, anxious, ill etc.

But, she still loves this other guy with all her heart! She told me that she doesnt know how she is going to tell him. She hasn’t told him yet. She just doesnt want to hurt his feelings plus she does deeply love him. Any suggestions?

Apparently the priest friend made her think and she said that she prayed so much about the affair. She has told her husband that she wants to ‘try again’ but she said it will be very hard as her love for her husband disappeared years ago!

So, looks like the devil has lost and God has won in getting her back! But, having said that, she still has a massive battle on her hands to get herself to actually tell this guy that she just wants to remain as very dear friends, like brother and sister maybe, but nothing else! Even though she told me that the urge to be with guy is still massive.

Any advice would be great as i feel lost. I have thought about it but dont know what to say that would help her tell this guy about what she wants to do. I pray for guidance.

Thanks 👍
 
ajecphotos said:
Update:

People, my sister has seen a good priest friend of hers and now after much prayer and reflection has decided to part from her new friend!

She just cannot bring herself to be apart from God! However much she has tried to please herself and her friend and God she has come to realise that she needs God more than anything in her life! She said she cannot be without the Eucharist etc.

She has suffered terribly over this as she has been depressed, anxious, ill etc.

But, she still loves this other guy with all her heart! She told me that she doesnt know how she is going to tell him. She hasn’t told him yet. She just doesnt want to hurt his feelings plus she does deeply love him. Any suggestions?

Apparently the priest friend made her think and she said that she prayed so much about the affair. She has told her husband that she wants to ‘try again’ but she said it will be very hard as her love for her husband disappeared years ago!

So, looks like the devil has lost and God has won in getting her back! But, having said that, she still has a massive battle on her hands to get herself to actually tell this guy that she just wants to remain as very dear friends, like brother and sister maybe, but nothing else! Even though she told me that the urge to be with guy is still massive.

Any advice would be great as i feel lost. I have thought about it but dont know what to say that would help her tell this guy about what she wants to do. I pray for guidance.

Thanks 👍
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Sometimes, we compassionate human beings have a difficult time knowing the difference between doing what is nice (not hurting anyone’s feelings) and doing what is truly loving (that which is right and good, even when it hurts). I hope she can see which is which in her situation. It sounds like she’s on the right track now.

I will pray that the Holy Spirit gives her the words and wisdom she needs to make this right.

:gopray2:
 
Apparently she has told him and he has taken it very badly indeed!! He took quite a few pain killers in one go the other night to help him sleep!! My sister is very worried. She feels so guilty!!!

If anything happened to him i just dont know how she would cope!!
 
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