Adventist Evangelism

[adventistnomore]

Everyone,

Most of you should be aware that a major, evangelistic Adventist ministry (Amazing Facts) is presently holding a “prophecy seminar” that is being downlinked to hundreds of sites (usually churches) around the world, and especially within the United States. [prophecycode.com]](http://www.prophecycode.com]) Prophecy seminars include studies in Daniel and Revelation through which Adventists are able to share their unique eschatology and doctrines with those who attend out of an interest in these biblical books.

For those less familar with their teachings: A major piece of this eschatology is the identification of the papacy as the “antichrist” power fortold in the bible (Daniel, Revelation, 2 Thess.). ALL Adventists believe that they will be persecuted by a one-world religion led by the Holy Father in the last days. Its quite sad to be in an Adventist University and see the fears, hatred, and minsinformation that my peers have been raised with all their lives (they know not what they do).

A singnificant number (perhaps even the majority) of converts through these seminars are Roman Catholics who are poorly catechized and easily swayed by the arguments presented by Adventists. Please keep a conscious eyes over the members of your churches, and be active in apologetics during this time. What’s sadder is that 70% of those who enter the church during these seminars leave the Adventist church within 2 years (poor discipleship, lack of full commitment or pastoral care). They more than often end up outside of any church… As the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the only major (and relatively mainstream) protestant denomination to include explicit anti-Catholicism as a part of its evangelistic program, their efforts deserve our special attention and rebuttals as defenders of the Faith.

If you have any questions, need specific answers to Adventist arguments, or would like more information, feel free to ask and keep in touch with me… Much of the Catholic response to Adventism lacks an in-depth knowledge of the nuances of Adventist theology, and the psychology of most Adventists. Also, pray for my work among Adventists as I study at this University, and my final entrance into the Catholic Church.

Yours in the Faith.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Well to get the ball rolling why are you adventist no more? What made you change?

Also, Do you know of any SDA “apologetics” sites?

 

[reggie]

I have watched some of the SDA programs on a TV I have that doesn’t get cable. When I was first returning to the CC, I was frightened by what I was hearing. You are exactly right that it is the poorly catechised that fall prey to them and others. It was due to what I was hearing that I began to earnestly study the church and her history. Sadly, not enough Catholics will take the time to do this. Our church has a library with some execellent books, magazines, and videos but very few of our registered parishioners even come to see what is offered.

Thanks for the heads up. The only thing I can add to your post is that is extremely important for parents to be aware of what your children will face when they are away from you. Especially when they leave for college. I try to do some pre-counteraction with my own, preparing them for some of the ways that are used to lure Catholics away from their faith. Something which wasn’t done for me and it resulted in my being easily lead astray and a looooooong time before I came home.

 

[adventistnomore]

Hi everyone,

I am not yet Catholic but am making significant progress towards my final reunion with Mother Church. The reasons for my conversion in-progress may be summarized as follows:

1. The antiquity (and apostolicity) of the Catholic tradition (as evidenced by the early church fathers of the first three centuries especially.
2. The firm basis of the Catholic faith in the Scriptures.

I as an Adventist Protestant was raised with an artificial construct of Christian history that imagined a deepening “apostasy” which eventually engulfed the entire church over centuries. Reading the fathers of the church however, I was AMAZED to find how ancient and universal are so many beliefs/practices held by Catholics including:

• the Eucharistic mystery and sacrifice
• the sacramental life (baptismal regeneration, chrismation, etc.)
• the intermediate state
• apostolic succession
• the role of tradition, creed, etc.
• the veneration and role of the saints

I believe each has a firm basis of Scripture, but I never would open myself to that idea until I read how unanimously the earliest Christians embraced these truths. Did the Church “fall away” during and immediately after the lifetime of the apostles, or have I misread/misunderstood the New Testament? I mean… we’re talking first and second century!

Furthermore, I have many difficulties that keep me from making logical sense of Protestantism:

• who defines the Canon? on what grounds?
• is the scripture to be interpreted without references to the consistent and unanimous teaching of the church?

As a Protestant who believes in free will, I gravitate far more to the Catholic teaching of justification by faith than that of the reformers regardless (the central issue in the conflict between both sides). In short, I want to fellowship in a church that embraces the fullness of Christian doctrine as it has been understood and faithfully transmitted for nearly 2,000 years.

Hugo.

 

[Gratias_Grace]

Hey adventistnomore!

I admire you for the guts to break through and to come home. You are welcome! :tiphat:

I think you are rigth to remind us about the anti-catholic SDA’s. The mail adress you left wasn’t 100% correct. Here is the correct adress:
prophecycode.com/

As most will know the SDA’s got their teaching from a sick woman Ellen White which thought that she was a prophet (we have discussed this before on other threads).

First of all I think that the reason that Catholic Church has been the target of this poison has something to do with the evil one. The more catholics he can destroy, the happier he will be, (until he is destoyed) because he hurts God through these fallen away catholics.

The counterattack has to come on many levels.

First prayng the Rosary for protection.

Second the Church has to give proper education on faith to both youth, parents and other perhaps badly trained catholics. They have to learn to see the faults of the teachings of the SDA’s.

Third parents must teach the young ones about SDA as something dangerous like drugs, alcohol etc. The children have to learn that there are decieved people out there who will try to steal their faith! Perhaps the education could start along with first comunion preparation.

Fourth we will have to establish a social net to help catholics that believed the SDA-lie, so that they can be welcomed home again, educated in their faith and feel safe and comfortable as Gods Children in the Church he established.

Fifth we will have to learn to defend ourselves when we meet non SDA’s that have been decieved by the SDA’s to believe wrongly about us. That defence do not always have to be about correcting what people say about us, because the SDA’s has used peoples fear when they planted the seed in them that we are the children of satan.

The best “weapon” might sometimes be only to be ourselves, lovley, cheerful, happy and kind. It is of no use to get exhausted in confrontations with liars that don’t want to know the thruth!

Do not give dogs what is holy; and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under foot and turn to attack you.

G.Grace

 

[SDA2RC]

adventistnomore:

Everyone,

Most of you should be aware that a major, evangelistic Adventist ministry (Amazing Facts) is presently holding a “prophecy seminar” that is being downlinked to hundreds of sites (usually churches) around the world, and especially within the United States. [/"]http://www.prophecycode.com]]("http://www.prophecycode.com) Prophecy seminars include studies in Daniel and Revelation through which Adventists are able to share their unique eschatology and doctrines with those who attend out of an interest in these biblical books.

clip…

If you have any questions, need specific answers to Adventist arguments, or would like more information, feel free to ask and keep in touch with me… Much of the Catholic response to Adventism lacks an in-depth knowledge of the nuances of Adventist theology, and the psychology of most Adventists. Also, pray for my work among Adventists as I study at this University, and my final entrance into the Catholic Church.

Yours in the Faith.

Hugo,
Thanks for this reminder, I got my “invite” brochure in the mail not too long ago from my old congregation. I will continue to pray for you!

BTW… are you attending the meetings down there?

Brandon

 

[adventistnomore]

Haha, hello Brandon.

Yes of course… lol, even though I see the weaknesses of his arguments, Doug Batchelor is a great guy to watch preach, undoubtedly one of my favorite Adventists. (And I am still searching regardless… Adventism deserves one last chance).

Hugo

P.S. Lol, I didn’t like that brochure too much. But glad you got one! Some church is doing their job

 

[Gratias_Grace]

adventistnomore:

And I am still searching regardless… Adventism deserves one last chance.

Hi adventistnomore!

Are you real? I mean, will all this end up with you telling us that you found out that catholisism , after all, is wrong?

If Adventism deserves one last chance, why didn’t you wait to tell us how wrong it is, until after you had decided for your self?

Can we smell a hidden agenda here or … :ehh:

G.Grace

 

[SDA2RC]

Gratias Grace:

Hi adventistnomore!

Are you real? I mean, will all this end up with you telling us that you found out that catholisism , after all, is wrong?

If Adventism deserves one last chance, why didn’t you wait to tell us how wrong it is, until after you had decided for your self?

Can we smell a hidden agenda here or … :ehh:

G.Grace

GG,
I have been talking with Hugo for months off line and know more of his story, and I am VERY convinced that he is very real. Why the automatic skepticism it suprises me? I guess I am used to taking what people say at face value unless there are strong evidences otherwise? What are your thoughts?

Brandon

 

[Gratias_Grace]

SDA2RC:

GG,
I have been talking with Hugo for months off line and know more of his story, and I am VERY convinced that he is very real. Why the automatic skepticism it suprises me? I guess I am used to taking what people say at face value unless there are strong evidences otherwise? What are your thoughts?

Brandon

Oh I am glad he is real! The skeptisism turned on when he laughed at your questions! It was like something was missing in the information. Since you two know each other I understand that the humour was adeqate as a response to you as an ex-SDA that he knows outside the forums.

I’ll tell you one thing, Brandon, if there is something that realy scares me, it is all these peoples that has been mislead by SDA’s and who throw all this in catholics faces.

When I saw Hugos answer, I thought that perhaps this was a new strategy; that adventists presents themself as interested in catholisism and then, perhaps, after making catholic friends, starts to tell that they have started to doubt the catholic faith (and so all the anti-catholic stuff comes).

That’s why I was so direct at **that ** topic.

I am glad he is real in his interst in us because he has written some really good articles on other threads!

Generally I admire SDA’s that becomes catholic. I do that because I think that their trip home must have been more difficult than ours (I am an ex-lutheran).



G.G. (I have changed the G.G to G.Grace because some thought I was male. I didn’t feel comfortable with that).

 

[SDA2RC]

Gratias Grace:

Oh I am glad he is real! The skeptisism turned on when he laughed at your questions! It was like something was missing in the information. Since you two know each other I understand that the humour was adeqate as a response to you as an ex-SDA that he knows outside the forums.

I’ll tell you one thing, Brandon, if there is something that realy scares me, it is all these peoples that has been mislead by SDA’s and who throw all this in catholics faces.

Makes sense… I agree with you in that I feel that SDA’s present a somewhat unique threat to the RCC, especially since there is so little information available to deal with thier unique theology.

Brandon

 

[adventistnomore]

Hi,

I was out for a day or so because of a stomach virus.

I have been studying the Catholic/Orthodox faith for over 2 years, and am at heart a Catholic. However, I promised to remain open to Adventism for one more year before I converted just to make sure that I was making the right decision…(I have so many friends who are Adventists, and I understandably sense a deep need for patience and prayer while making so momentous a decision in my life) There are still a few things I am unsure of, and some questions remain… however, that year is nearly over, and I there is little left to keep me from finally embracing the truth. So, although I am interested in giving both sides as much of “a chance” as I can, my posts and my choice of the name “adventistnomore” should indicate that this process is nearly complete. My heart is already committed to the Catholic Church…

I’m almost Home.

Hugo.

 

[adventistnomore]

P.S. Adventists are still Adventist because they have never cared to truly inquire about the Catholic faith and investigated their claims… I would jokingly hope some of them might try a “strategy” such as G. Grace was afraid of… lol, once (even falsely) open to the Catholic faith… they might never go back!

Hugo

 

[James224]

Hi Adventisnomore,

I enjoyed reading why you left the SDA and are coming into the Catholic Church. I use to debate on Matthew Slick’s discussion board almost everyday for about 4 years (until they cut me off) and debated Adventists from time to time. The question I use to ask was this: What person in the church or church history for the first 1,000 years after the death of the last apostle do you totally agree with? They never could answer that. I knew that if they did, I could show where this same person either believed in all the things peculiar to the Catholic Church or show that they were heretics and the Adventist could not accept everything they believed. Some now quote the early church fathers to try and show that they believed what the adventist believes but, of course, they were “Selectively” quoting the fathers. Many times, in the same paragraph they qouted, you could find the peculiar Catholic beliefs they believed, therefore, they were not looking at the context. They do the same with Scripture.

You are right on target with the reasons you are coming in.

May God bless,

James224

 

[adventistnomore]

That strategy is awesome… I’m so gonna try that sometime.

Hugo.

 

[adventistnomore]

It really points to something I’ve always believed since first encountering the Catholic faith for myself… Adventism only exists as a construct of the words of the New Testament… once the New Testament is set into the background and context of history, the entire vision imposed on it by Adventists (and Protestants) collapses.

As I wrote once to a friend:

“The day you allow the earliest Church fathers to teach you anything about the Apostolic Christianity they lived and experienced is the day you cease to become Protestant.”

Hugo.

---

St. Ignatius of Antioch, pray for me.

 

[Gratias_Grace]

SDA2RC:

Makes sense… I agree with you in that I feel that SDA’s present a somewhat unique threat to the RCC, especially since there is so little information available to deal with thier unique theology.

Brandon

Yes, Brandon, SDA represent a treath to RCC, not only because they succeed in leading some not well trained catholics away from Church, but also because they succeed in making other protestants anti-catholic, too.

Still many protestants are anti-catholic (on their own), but I have met protestants (non-SDA’s) that talk like SDA’s in the way they see RCC.

Perhaps Internet is much to blame. It’s not only the “bad-trained” catholics that surf on Net, also protestants do that.

That’s why it is so good that we have Catholic Answers forums!

G. Grace

 

[Gratias_Grace]

adventistnomore:

Hi,

I was out for a day or so because of a stomach virus.

I have been studying the Catholic/Orthodox faith for over 2 years, and am at heart a Catholic. However, I promised to remain open to Adventism for one more year before I converted just to make sure that I was making the right decision…(I have so many friends who are Adventists, and I understandably sense a deep need for patience and prayer while making so momentous a decision in my life) There are still a few things I am unsure of, and some questions remain… however, that year is nearly over, and I there is little left to keep me from finally embracing the truth. So, although I am interested in giving both sides as much of “a chance” as I can, my posts and my choice of the name “adventistnomore” should indicate that this process is nearly complete. My heart is already committed to the Catholic Church…

I’m almost Home.

Hugo.

Hi Hugo!

As a former lutheran I know how hard the last steps can be. I remember myself sitting in the Catholic Church at Mass, still a lutheran, asking God again and again how I could be sure about that the Catholic Church realy was the right one?

God gave me his answer in a very personal and special way! About a year later I was confirmed and recieved my first Holy Eucaristic meal! I was so happy that I nearly danced in the steets afterwards.

Just, keep reading and praying! God knows us individually and finds an apropriate way to call us, give us the moment of understanding, when we we know for sure that we will leave the the past behind and enter the Church Jesus Christ instituted on earth!



G. Grace

 

[cestusdei]

I am always on the look out for Amazing Facts (Lies) seminars in my area. I usually go, take notes, and then confront the pastor. Also I warn my people about their deceptive tactics. They won’t admit they are sda unless you virtually force them too. Lying for Jesus I guess.

 

[SDA2RC]

cestusdei:

They won’t admit they are sda unless you virtually force them too. Lying for Jesus I guess.

This is true… Many SDA Evangelists feel they will get a more open evaluation of their message if it is not announced who sponsors the message. This has caused controvery both in and out of the SDA Church for decades. I agree, it seems to me to be underhanded.

Doug Bachelor, the man presenting these meetings, IMHO is one of the SDA churches best evangelists. I think he really tries… doesnt alway just use the “standard” answers when being questioned etc. I saw him on a panel once, with a couple of SDA church theology professors and seminarians, the audience at the University was allowed to ask questions… it was hilarious to see the Theologians defer to Bachelor, time and time again, he seemed to be the only one who would even attempt to answer some of the difficult questions.

Brandon