Advice Nanny Job -discrimination issue

[VivienneJ]

Sorry. Not trying to give the OP legal advice. Just pointing out to the people on this board who insist that no one with mental disorders would take care of their children that that presents a lot of problems.

In the USA, for sure, and in some other countries too, but not in all countries in the world.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

In the USA, for sure, and in some other countries too, but not in all countries in the world.

Of course. I think the people that I was responding to were in the US.

As someone who has struggled with mental illness in the past I am very grateful that an employer can’t ask about anything like that. I am an excellent employee who does very well under pressure and who can be trusted. To be asked about a medical condition that I have under control and have that used against me would be devastating, and I would sue. It does not affect my job performance at all.

 

[Chiltepin]

I am so sorry that you have this cross to bear.

It is hard to leave your children with someone else, but some of us have to. A lot of little things can make a person uneasy about it. I must admit it would give me a moment’s pause. It would seem that when it comes to who is spending hours a day with your children, you have a right to be a bit discriminating.

Here is an example of something that is not a treatable medical condition. I was watching the host of “America’s Most Wanted” being interviewed on a daytime tv program about how to protect your children. He said that it is absolutely discriminatory and an unpopular thing to say, but don’t hire male babysitters. This does not go to say that there aren’t good ones or that males are not capable… just that statistically you are taking more of a risk. I thought wow that isn’t fair to male nannies who do a good job, but after hearing the stories I was in an instant convinced that was a small thing I could do to protect my children. People react similarly to other red flags such as mental illness which have nothing to do with you as a person and is surely very frustrating to you.

I am sorry this happened to you. Maybe you will find the perfect job with someone who knows you really well or someone who knows enough people who know you to put them at ease. References from people I know and trust would help me a lot if I were considering hiring you. Maybe it is just a matter of time.

Have you considered other types of jobs or do you feel this is your calling? If you feel you must work with children, have you considered working at a preschool or daycare where you would not be the only adult. People tend to feel more comfortable in some of those situations because there are more eyes watching the children AND the adults.

 

[Chiltepin]

Of course. I think the people that I was responding to were in the US.

As someone who has struggled with mental illness in the past I am very grateful that an employer can’t ask about anything like that. I am an excellent employee who does very well under pressure and who can be trusted. To be asked about a medical condition that I have under control and have that used against me would be devastating, and I would sue. It does not affect my job performance at all.

Still some jobs require it. A friend of mine could not get work as a police officer because of his wife’s mental illness. She had PTSD and was recovering extremely well but was not seeing a doctor for it anymore who would clear her and it cost him multiple job opportunities. They wouldn’t even tell him why, probably for legal reasons. It was finally one officer that said something to him extremely off the record because he didn’t want this poor guy to keep geting turned down and not know why.

The truth is some jobs have to profile like this. I am not sure whether it is reasonable what happened to my friend. Still, what would be the point of suing someone for not giving you a job. Are you hoping it would be equivalent to a year’s salary? Are you hoping they would turn around and give you a job? That would probably not be a friendly work environment.

 

[Imryl]

I have no problem with people who suffer from mental illness. But when we are considering who will be caring for my children while I am away, extra risk assessment is involved.

In response to the example of the diabetic, well controlled or not, I would not hire one while I have very young children. When my children are older however I would have no problem doing so.

I do use nannies and I did fire the last one when she disclosed she had bipolar. Of course the disclosure really only explained some of the strange (though not necessarily dangerous) things we had observed. That was under control for her though.

I get that people feel they are entitled to certain treatment, jobs etc but that’s just not so. If someone had no mental disorder at all but behaved badly, are we discriminating against badly behaving people? (I’m not talking about dangerous people but maybe those who just don’t share our moral convictions)

Of course we aren’t.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Still some jobs require it. A friend of mine could not get work as a police officer because of his wife’s mental illness. She had PTSD and was recovering extremely well but was not seeing a doctor for it anymore who would clear her and it cost him multiple job opportunities. They wouldn’t even tell him why, probably for legal reasons. It was finally one officer that said something to him extremely off the record because he didn’t want this poor guy to keep geting turned down and not know why.

The truth is some jobs have to profile like this. I am not sure whether it is reasonable what happened to my friend. Still, what would be the point of suing someone for not giving you a job. Are you hoping it would be equivalent to a year’s salary? Are you hoping they would turn around and give you a job? That would probably not be a friendly work environment.

1. You’re friend should probably speak to an attorney.
2. How would the employers even know about his wife’s condition in the first place?
3. Yes, some jobs do have a legal exception when it comes to discriminating, even for things that qualify under ADA guidelines as disabilities. Police officers, military, etc.
4. What would I hope to gain? Besides whatever monetary award that is standard in my district I would hope to send a message to those who would discriminate against others for something like that.

If someone well trained and qualified comes in, they have excellent work history and references, then why would a mental illness play in to it? Clearly the person has it under control. It’s like hiring a diabetic. Yes, if they all of a sudden completely neglected their treatment they could go in to a coma. But there is no reason to think that they will.

 

[Luvz2travel]

I wouldn’t hire someone who was bipolar to watch my children, and if I found out they were I would let them go. Whether or not it was controlled by medication is of no concern. It’s not discriminatory. You have no right to be employed by me and I have every right to control who watches my children.

You could always decide not to take the medication and I don’t want to deal with that.

I was a nanny when I was younger but I have to say if I was a parent I would agree with this statement. If I were a parent I would also want to know if the person watching my kids had this. It’s not personal it’s just smart.

 

[Luvz2travel]

Drug testing. Yes, I would make any person working with my kids get drug tested.

Me too.

 

[Serap]

Interesting discussion. I have a live-in nanny, so I’d like to contribute.

If I knew up front that the nanny had a mental health issue, I would not hire them. It’s a hard thing. You carry a heavy cross!!!

My current nanny could be on meds for something and I would never know. She is wonderful with my kids and they really love her. Honestly, I don’t care at this point if she has a mental disorder b/c she is so loving and I care about her a lot.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I was a nanny when I was younger but I have to say if I was a parent I would agree with this statement. If I were I parent I would also want to know if the person watching my kids had this. It’s not personal it’s just smart.

And its illegal to even ask. The only thing you can ask is “are you able to perform the essential duties of the job?”

 

[Imryl]

I’d also like to say that as terms of my own employment I must disclose all of my medical records (which includes physical and psychological) as well as all my financial records. I must also submit to a polygraph. Of course this is all “voluntary” because no one can require that you do these things… but if you want the job (my job) that’s what you do.

I recommend four things when hiring a nanny.

1. Background check
2. Credit check
3. Drug test
4. LOTS of references

 

[Serap]

I’d also like to say that as terms of my own employment I must disclose all of my medical records (which includes physical and psychological) as well as all my financial records. I must also submit to a polygraph. Of course this is all “voluntary” because no one can require that you do these things… but if you want the job that’s what you do.

I’m sorry to advise you that I highly doubt you will find a job as a nanny with that kind of screening.

I think you should seek other employment.

 

[Imryl]

I said those are conditions of my employment, not my employee, ie. the nanny.

I’m not a nanny. ;p

Just showing the parallel that a lot of people are required to jump through additional hoops depending on the type of job.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Most drug tests don’t test for drugs used to treat common mental disorders. The only class I can even think of that would show up is benzos. And even then that’s only on advanced drug tests that cost extra. Most employers don’t bother with them.

If a person can hold a job and do it well disqualifying them on the basis of something like that opens you up to a huge lawsuit.

And really, what’s with the fear of well controlled mental illness? You have no idea if your child’s teacher or daycare employees have one.

Oh, and BTW, there is a strong push to get more bipolars to be able to control their condition and manage to live and function well without the use of meds. Which is one of the big goals for most mentally ill patients anyway. So if the nanny was doing that well even the most advanced thousand dollar plus tests wouldn’t tell you anything.

Likewise, I would be far happier trusting someone who is actively controlling their condition than I would hiring someone with an undiagnosed or untreated one.

Wrong about the drug tests. They can show every drug the person is on or has been exposed to over the last month or so. Including amphetamines for ADHD, anti depressants, certainly any meds for bipolar.

The thing about bipolar is that it isn’t well-controlled. It’s MANIC-depressive, and people can be rapid cyclers who go through the phases several times a day or week. Bipolars are not easy to treat because the mania phase is such a good high, they don’t want to lose it to the meds. There are certain conditions that make a person a very poor risk for responsibility for other people, especially children. Bipolar is just one of those, period.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Wrong about the drug tests. They can show every drug the person is on or has been exposed to over the last month or so. Including amphetamines for ADHD, anti depressants, certainly any meds for bipolar.

The thing about bipolar is that it isn’t well-controlled. It’s MANIC-depressive, and people can be rapid cyclers who go through the phases several times a day or week. Bipolars are not easy to treat because the mania phase is such a good high, they don’t want to lose it to the meds. There are certain conditions that make a person a very poor risk for responsibility for other people, especially children. Bipolar is just one of those, period.

They could use tests to reveal those, but they don’t. They are expensive and a waste of time. Employment drug screenings are usually only set for illegal substances. Even when a doctor prescribes you an anti depressant or ADHD med they explain that standard employment drug screenings don’t test for those. And if you did order one of the super expensive tests that would show those you would only be fueling a possible lawsuit.

And there are plenty of bipolars that care for children. And the condition can be controlled. And not hiring someone who is qualified and does a good job because other people who have the issue don’t function well is exactly what illegal employment discrimination looks like.

 

[Moore11]

Of course. I think the people that I was responding to were in the US.

As someone who has struggled with mental illness in the past I am very grateful that an employer can’t ask about anything like that. I am an excellent employee who does very well under pressure and who can be trusted. To be asked about a medical condition that I have under control and have that used against me would be devastating, and I would sue. It does not affect my job performance at all.

It would be worth it to note that the OP is in South Korea and I doubt any of us are privy to the labor laws there. But if what the OP says is true, then perhaps more companies should move there. Sounds like they have it figured out!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

They could use tests to reveal those, but they don’t. They are expensive and a waste of time. Employment drug screenings are usually only set for illegal substances. Even when a doctor prescribes you an anti depressant or ADHD med they explain that standard employment drug screenings don’t test for those. And if you did order one of the super expensive tests that would show those you would only be fueling a possible lawsuit.

And there are plenty of bipolars that care for children. And the condition can be controlled. And not hiring someone who is qualified and does a good job because other people who have the issue don’t function well is exactly what illegal employment discrimination looks like.

They are not expensive any more. And yes, employers DO screen for other medications, got a wake up call for ya! :yup:

Here, just the first search I did turned this up:

Most employers find that a drug-testing program will eliminate people with problem, and not good applicants.* Drug tests for small to medium employers generally cost in the $50-$70.00 range, including collection of the sample, laboratory analysis, services of a Medial Review Officer (MRO), and communications of the results in the manner most convenient to the employer. **Compared to the cost of even one employee with a substance abuse problem, most firms find eliminating the problem in the first place is well worth the time and money involved in a drug-testing program.
employmentdrugtesting.com/screening.html

 

[BlueEyedLady]

They are not expensive any more. And yes, employers DO screen for other medications, got a wake up call for ya! :yup:

Here, just the first search I did turned this up:

Most employers find that a drug-testing program will eliminate people with problem, and not good applicants.* Drug tests for small to medium employers generally cost in the $50-$70.00 range, including collection of the sample, laboratory analysis, services of a Medial Review Officer (MRO), and communications of the results in the manner most convenient to the employer. ***Compared to the cost of even one employee with a substance abuse problem, most firms find eliminating the problem in the first place is well worth the time and money involved in a drug-testing program.

employmentdrugtesting.com/screening.html

Some places do use 10- panel drug screening. But it is not the most common by any stretch. The most common pre employment screenings just look for illegal substances, and a few look for benzos because they are so commonly abused. And the employee does have to sign a form acknowledging what the employer is looking for. (So testing for SSRIs or pregnancy without consent is illegal.).

And one of the big concerns with 10-panel testing is that it does reveal health conditions to an employer. Health conditions that the employer has no legal right to know about and cannot use in the hiring decision.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Some places do use 10- panel drug screening. But it is not the most common by any stretch. The most common pre employment screenings just look for illegal substances, and a few look for benzos because they are so commonly abused. And the employee does have to sign a form acknowledging what the employer is looking for. (So testing for SSRIs or pregnancy without consent is illegal.).

And one of the big concerns with 10-panel testing is that it does reveal health conditions to an employer. Health conditions that the employer has no legal right to know about** and cannot use in the hiring decision**.

Oh but they use whatever they can get ahold of, however they can get it. You are young, padawan, and have much to learn.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Oh but they use whatever they can get ahold of, however they can get it. You are young, padawan, and have much to learn.

Of course many places will try. But the ADA makes it clear that you cannot discriminate on the basis of mental illness. If I suspected that something like that happened to me I would do whatever I could to pursue it in court.

These laws are made for a reason. They need to be followed.

The good news is that the stigma against mental illness is fading quickly. With more people undergoing treatment and being more vocal about it almost everyone knows someone who is or has gone through it.