Advice needed. Challenges with LDS girlfriend and chastity

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stmk

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Please be patient with me and read the whole post. I really need some advice.
So I posted a while back that I recently got involved with a Mormon/LDS girl. We have been dating for 13 weeks now. I am an older practicing Catholic man that has been chaste for many years and not involved in any relationships. Then out of nowhere I met this wonderful woman at work. We hit it off instantly. We were clearly attracted to each other. In our talks at work the first two things that I learned about her that stuck in my mind was that she prayed every morning and that she didn’t believe in sex before marriage. After a couple months of getting to know each other at work an opportunity to meet for dinner presented itself. We talked for hours and I found out that she was Mormon. Something else I found out was that her boyfriend from college forced himself on her and she got pregnant. She put herself through school and raised her son by herself. The father denied being that father and she didn’t want anything more to do with him and he has not been seen or heard from for 21 years.
She had a 5 year marriage with a man that she said was abusive and ended in divorce. Then a 10 year relationship with a man she met at work. They were never married but got engaged and lived together and helped raise each others children. They both traveled a lot and she said it became more a relationship of convenience than anything else. One was always home with the kids while the other traveled. Apparently this man became worldly as she says. Got caught up in money and ended up cheating on her with someone else from the office. He also depleted a lot of her finances during their relationship as he had credit / money problems coming in.
As I type all of this at once I am really wondering how this relationship even started.
NOW, to the meat of it:
We are 13 weeks in and I have struggled with chastity. Even though we both said we believed in remaining chaste until marriage, after late nights staying over, we eventually fell and continue to give in to temptation. After several weeks of struggles and multiple trips to confession I think I have finally decided to make a more serious effort to remain chaste and get to know her. She has already said that she loves me and would marry me tomorrow if I asked. She says she also believes in waiting until we’re married but because she loves me, she doesn’t necessarily see anything wrong with having sex since she just knows. I have always raised the concern that our different faiths were a huge stumbling block but she says, it’s not about your religion but your relationship with God. NOW I see the problem (one of many) with our different beliefs. I’m coming from a Catholic perspective, mortal sin, Theology of The Body and she is just not there but says she will also remain chaste if I want. I sense this frustrates her even though she is willing. I really thought there was a future here as she is an amazing woman but I don’t know what to do. I THINK I JUST NEED TO DISCUSS WITH MY FELLOW PRACTICING CATHOLICS here as I don’t know anyone else to talk to.

Please give some (name removed by moderator)ut. Many more details to add but I’ll let others jump in first.
 
You must follow your conscience dear brother. If she loves you, she will wait
 
As a practicing Catholic man who is happily married to a Jewish woman, I would recommend only marrying a practicing Catholic, or see if she will enroll in RCIA and potentially convert (especially if kids are a possibility).

If she is past the child baring years, then religion is less of an issue. However, spouses are responsible for the each other’s soul. So if she would lead you to sin while married, stay away. But if she will respect your religious views and kids are not an option, then you should be good.

Good luck and God Bless
 
My understanding on divorce isn’t very clear, but isn’t it already a problem that he’s dating someone who is divorced (in the sense that it is a sin to date someone who is divorced)?
 
Our time on Earth is but a blink of an eye. Read the Bible for inspiration and pray deeply. Without knowing either of you, I would suggest you work to save her soul before you work to save the relationship. The only true and perfect relationship is one you have with God. RCIA or bible study would be a great start. Most of all, pray. Pray, pray, pray.
 
MyNameIsDan said:
My understanding on divorce isn’t very clear, but isn’t it already a problem that he’s dating someone who is divorced (in the sense that it is a sin to date someone who is divorced)?
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Hopefully the OP has talked to a priest about her previous marriage and has some idea where they stand according to the Church given this fact before marriage is discussed. In the meantime, stay chaste and don’t be strayed from your Faith.

Mary.
 
Does she expect you to become a Mormon?
Don’t Mormons have to get married in the Mormon temple?
A former student of mine married a Mormon girl, and his parents were not allowed to attend the wedding. And they insisted that he convert. His family was very upset about the whole thing.
Or have you both decided you are definitely moving forward and getting married?
 
Well, you should cut out the sex unless and until you get married…but you know that. God bless you for staying chaste for so long, we are all fallen. An interfaith marriage is probably less of an issue at your ages, since I’m assuming there are no minor children and there is little to no risk of her getting pregnant? The possibility of kids would have a lot to do with my decision if I was in your shoes. If there is even a tiny chance of her getting pregnant, it’s time to take a big step back. It’s so important for kids to have parents on the same page when it comes to raising them in the faith.

Even if we set aside the requirements of our faith for a minute, you need to stop having sex so you can have a clear head while you figure out if she is really for you. You’re like the proverbial starving man who is tossed a few saltines and they taste like the most exotic dish ever. Resuming sexual activity after such a long hiatus may be blinding you to any red flags.

Speaking of red flags, here’s a few I noted:

She says she believes in remaining chaste until marriage, but her actions don’t really support that. She was in a ten year relationship prior to you that I’m assuming was sexual, and she’s now having sex with you. Sounds like lip service.

The “it’s not about your religion it’s about your relationship with God” business. That is Protestant claptrap used to justify sin. Anything goes in my private life, because Jesus and I have an understanding - we’re best bud’s doncha know.

She’s ready to get married after a 13 week courtship. This sounds like something an 18 year old would say, not a mature woman. You mentioned some financial issues stemming from the previous relationship. Is she looking for you to be her retirement plan?

Still, hope remains. If she is a wonderful woman as you say and is willing to hold off on the sex, it’s certainly worth exploring further. Use the time to really get to know her. Take her to mass and see what her reaction is. Even if she won’t convert, you certainly don’t want to be married to someone who thinks your beliefs are ridiculous. Good luck.
 
I think it might be worthwhile to take some time to yourself to consider what this person means to you and what God means to you. How involved do you want God to be in your life?

I love talking about the Confessions by St. Augustine (even though I haven’t finished it and have only read the first few chapters). But St. Augustine’s story (in relating to your circumstance) goes a little like this:

St. Augustine was known for his sexual temptations and how he viewed his life of sin. He tried to look for God in the wrong things; in the social hierarchy and indulging in lust as examples. But eventually he found that these “good” things have an end and that they can never truly satisfy the heart. This is because man is always searching for the greatest good and is searching for love that will fill his heart. Ultimately, only God can bring us the love we desire. A famous quote from St. Augustine is this: “For you have made us for yourself, oh Lord, and our hearts do not rest until they rest in thee.”

So the question becomes: where do you see God in this relationship? Will this relationship bring your whole being to rest?

I think that only by grounding yourself in God first can you hope to love yourself then love another.

My summary falls short of the greatness of St. Augustine’s work, so I definitely suggest it as a must read.

God bless!
 
MaryT777 said:
Hopefully the OP has talked to a priest about her previous marriage and has some idea where they stand according to the Church given this fact before marriage is discussed. In the meantime, stay chaste and don’t be strayed from your Faith.

Mary.
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I wasn’t really thinking about the marriage aspect, but what I’m trying to figure out is whether dating a divorced person is a sin. If that is the case, it seems it makes some answers emerge naturally, or the answer will become clearer at least. It then wouldn’t just be the sex that is a sin but the relationship itself if I understand correctly.
 
I know that your immediate concern is chastity, but keep your eye on the long term. The heat of a sexual relationship can cloud your judgment. If you are not going to marry, you have no business having a sexual relationship. If you do marry, it is worth waiting for. It sounds as though she has had problems with unwise relationships in the past. You do not want to be another unwise, unchaste man in her life.

There are two problems. She is married and divorced, and she is non-Christian. (Nothing personal against the LDS, but the two theologies are divergent.)

As you probably know, you cannot marry a divorced woman unless her marriage would be declared null by the Church. Secondly, it would be very unwise of you to marry a non-Christian, although the Church may permit it. Would she be open to conversion?
 
OP,

I took a look at the other thread you posted and discovered that this woman apparently was baptized Catholic and converted to Mormonism at 12 because of her step-father. I think that changes things significantly. I’m no church scholar, but doesn’t that make her technically an apostate? I can’t really blame her for something that happened when she was an impressionable pre-teen, but I think she needs to come back to the church before you can consider marrying her. Just my opinion.
 
stmk said:
She has already said that she loves me and would marry me tomorrow if I asked. ** She says she also believes in waiting until we’re married but because she loves me, she doesn’t necessarily see anything wrong with having sex since she just knows. ** I have always raised the concern that our different faiths were a huge stumbling block but she says, it’s not about your religion but your relationship with God. NOW I see the problem (one of many) with our different beliefs.
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She believes in being chaste, but it is ok to not be because she “loves” you? :confused:

Full disclosure, I am a former Mormon. Mormons have all kinds of cognitive dissonance going on in their minds to keep a belief in Mormonism. Also, Mormons tend to push for very short courtships. It is not surprising that after 3 months she wants to get married. I cannot tell you how many LDS couples I know who got engaged after knowing each other for a few months. It can lead to disaster.

Honestly, this woman sounds like she has all kinds of issues. Her relationship history indicates that she has a tendency to pick men who use her. I’m not saying that you are the same. She found a nice guy and seems to want to do anything to keep you, including sex.

Mormonism infantilizes its adherents, especially the women. Mormon women are raised to grow up, get married in the temple to a righteous priesthood holder, stay at home, have babies and submit to the husband so long as he remains a righteous priesthood holder (if he fails to be “worthy” she can control and manipulate him back into line). She is not mature and acting like a desperate teenager.

My advice? Run away!
 
If you’re truly interested in marriage I would say do your best to get her to convert first.
 
If she was a Baptized catholic who married outside the Church without dispensation we know her marriage was not valid. If you are heading toward marriage speak to your priest about what steps to take for her to obtain a Lack of Form annulment so that she’d be free to marry.

Other than that, I see a few red flags. The first being her claim that she doesn’t believe in sex outside of marriage and yet she was in a 10 year sexual relationship (that only ended because he left her) and is currently in a sexual relationship with you, all without the benefit of marriage. And let’s not ignore the fact that she jumped in bed with you within a few months. That doesn’t scream “I believe in chastity.”

The second is claims of rape and abuse. I’m not saying she wasn’t raped by her college BF or that she wasn’t in an abusive marriage. What I am saying is that some women, especially those who claim religious beliefs, will make the mistake of having sex and then cry rape to absolve themselves of guilt. I could see a Mormon college student who turns up pregnant telling her family and church that the young man “forced himself” on her. And I could see a young woman marrying in haste claim abuse to justify a divorce.

Look at it in order. Her out of wedlock child? Product of rape. Her failed marriage? Abuse. Her financial situation? Her ex-live-in-boyfriend-of-a-decades fault. Sex with you? Love made her do it. She starts to sound like a professional victim incapable of taking responsibility for her own actions.

If it were me I’d start asking the hard questions. Did she report the rape? Why did he deny the child was his? Had she been with other young men at the time? Why didn’t she pursue child support? DNA testing was in use by the courts well over 20 years ago. She could have proven paternity easily and had nothing to do with the father due to the rape allegations. Did she report the spousal abuse? Why was she living with a man for 10 years without being married? Why did she allow him access to her money? If she believes in chastity, why is she more than willing to hop into bed with you on short acquaintance?
 
Talk is cheap, actions show character.

Her past relationships and current behavior show she does not value chastity and that “waiting until marriage” is just an empty phrase. She has an excuse for everything and why it wasn’t her fault. The boyfriend supposedly forced himself on her, husband was supposedly abusive, live in boyfriend supposedly swindled and cheated. NONE of this is her fault? She has a convenient answer for why her relationships falling apart is not her fault.

Now 13 weeks in and you’re sexually active and she wants to get married. On the last thread the advice was to stop the relationship, on this thread it is the same: she has issues and now you have some you need to sort through too. This is not a relationship headed for happy ending. I suggest you get some distance from this “perfect” woman.
 
1ke said:
Talk is cheap, actions show character.

Her past relationships and current behavior show she does not value chastity and that “waiting until marriage” is just an empty phrase. She has an excuse for everything and why it wasn’t her fault. The boyfriend supposedly forced himself on her, husband was supposedly abusive, live in boyfriend supposedly swindled and cheated. NONE of this is her fault? She has a convenient answer for why her relationships falling apart is not her fault.

Now 13 weeks in and you’re sexually active and she wants to get married. On the last thread the advice was to stop the relationship, on this thread it is the same: she has issues and now you have some you need to sort through too. This is not a relationship headed for happy ending. I suggest you get some distance from this “perfect” woman.
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I couldn’t have said it better, 1ke…Raped & had a child, married & divorced, live-in boyfriend …I’m sorry that after remaining celibate for so many years, the O.P. had to fall for this woman. He better get some Godly advice from a priest.
This girl seems like Trouble! :eek:
 
*She is not available to be married. *She is a divorced woman.
Friend, she is drawing you in and bonding with you. How can you think clearly with the hormones going on?
She is a divorced woman who is not available. Do you want to marry outside of the church and be outside of the sacraments? Really? Think really hard on that one. It reads to me like this is your temptation in the desert. Run.
 
MJJean said:
If she was a Baptized catholic who married outside the Church without dispensation we know her marriage was not valid. If you are heading toward marriage speak to your priest about what steps to take for her to obtain a Lack of Form annulment so that she’d be free to marry.

Other than that, I see a few red flags. The first being her claim that she doesn’t believe in sex outside of marriage and yet she was in a 10 year sexual relationship (that only ended because he left her) and is currently in a sexual relationship with you, all without the benefit of marriage. And let’s not ignore the fact that she jumped in bed with you within a few months. That doesn’t scream “I believe in chastity.”

The second is claims of rape and abuse. I’m not saying she wasn’t raped by her college BF or that she wasn’t in an abusive marriage. What I am saying is that some women, especially those who claim religious beliefs, will make the mistake of having sex and then cry rape to absolve themselves of guilt. I could see a Mormon college student who turns up pregnant telling her family and church that the young man “forced himself” on her. And I could see a young woman marrying in haste claim abuse to justify a divorce.

Look at it in order. Her out of wedlock child? Product of rape. Her failed marriage? Abuse. Her financial situation? Her ex-live-in-boyfriend-of-a-decades fault. Sex with you? Love made her do it. She starts to sound like a professional victim incapable of taking responsibility for her own actions.

If it were me I’d start asking the hard questions. Did she report the rape? Why did he deny the child was his? Had she been with other young men at the time? Why didn’t she pursue child support? DNA testing was in use by the courts well over 20 years ago. She could have proven paternity easily and had nothing to do with the father due to the rape allegations. Did she report the spousal abuse? Why was she living with a man for 10 years without being married? Why did she allow him access to her money? If she believes in chastity, why is she more than willing to hop into bed with you on short acquaintance?
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This. There are red flags everywhere. I would move on.
 
If it were me I’d start asking the hard questions. Did she report the rape? Why did he deny the child was his? Had she been with other young men at the time? Why didn’t she pursue child support? DNA testing was in use by the courts well over 20 years ago. She could have proven paternity easily and had nothing to do with the father due to the rape allegations. Did she report the spousal abuse?
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While I agree with the general advice to the OP that this is likely not a feasible long-term relationship, I am surprised by some of the uncharitable assumptions made about this woman here, regarding her possible history of rape and abuse.

I’d (foolishly?) assumed that most people here were well aware that the vast majority of rapes are NOT reported to authorities, and attitudes like these, that the “women cry rape” falsely, are a major reason why that is the case. There also have been cases where rapists sued for custody and won. Perhaps the woman didn’t pursue child support because she didn’t want to face this man again or have anything to do with him.

As for spousal abuse, again, many times, victims do not report the crime to the police, or often, press charges only to retract them later.

Now, this isn’t to say that there aren’t other red flags, such as her voluntary cohabitation for ten years with another man. Even without the sex, it seems that the gap between LDS and Catholicism is likely too wide anyway. I don’t think we need to assume the worst about this woman to caution the OP against continuing the relationship.
 
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