Advice needed concerning sexual purity

[Rachel25]

I just want to thank everyone for all the advice and prayers. I have taken much of the advice to heart and am at peace again concerning his past. I also read the Pure Love pamphlet someone suggested previously. It speaks about love so beautifully and it is definitely something taht I want to share with my boyfriend at the right time.

Concerning his spirituality. Oh man, do I pray and pray and pray… unfortunately, many people have warned me not to let my feelings and emotions delve too deeply with a man that is not the strong catholic person that I want to marry. I have known him for a long time, and my feelings for him are very deep and strong. I know though that God has put him in my life for a reason, and I sincerely believe that maybe that reason is to bring him back to the faith, back to Jesus.

My boyfriend went to a Catholic high school, but his family also does not regularly go to Church on Sundays nor has he learn much about his faith. When I found out about his past, I told him about the magnitude of this sin in the eyes of God and said that he should go to confession. And, blessed be to God, I did not push nor mention it again after that day and sure enough he went on his own (for the first time ever) and had a wonderful experience! Unfortunately, he is not going to mass on his own regularly… Something in me wants to tell him how important it is to see Christ every Sunday, about the magnitude of missing Sunday mass of Obligation, but something else in me says to just wait, keep praying, don’t push… you might just push him even further away. I do pray though, SO much, that a fire and desire will burn in his heart to learn the promises and teachings of the Church on his own. I’m a firm believer in a passive prayer approach to the conversion of someone’s heart to Jesus… I just need to be patient.

There are a lot of concerns I’m receiving on this forum concerning waiting for a strong Catholic man for marriage… I have spoken with my boyfriend about how important it is to me that I marry a man that will attend Church with me every Sunday and will aid me in the teaching of our children in the faith of the Church. I continued to tell him that, for me, dating leads to either heartbreak or marriage. If we get married and he sees that he will be unwilling to go to Church and raise our children in the Faith, then he needs to tell me now so that we don’t waste much more of our time and emotions in this relationship. I put the same emphasis on chasity. He has made a committment to both of these by staying in this relationship with me… and that action has given me so much hope. I do know the consequences of the future though, and I know that with time, if our relationship is bending further towards marriage and he is still lax about the Church and God, then, as hard as it may be, I will have to leave the relationship. I agree with a lot of what many have said, God comes first in my life… I know that I would not be able to spend the rest of my life with a man that does not put God in the center of his own. But, for right now, in this courting (and long distance) relationship, I am going to do anything I can to lead him to Christ, help his soul get to heaven. If anyone has any suggestions on how best to do this in a courting relationship, please share. I know I can’t just sit down with a Cathecism and make him read it… that would get us nowhere. Is there anything else that I should do besides praying, and bringing him with me to church on Sunday when we’re together?

To be cont.

 

[Rachel25]

I want some that have replied to know that I do realize that I am a gift. A beautiful gift to the man that I choose to marry, and he that chooses to marry me. But, I hope that I’m correct in thinking that my boyfriend is a precious gift too, who deserves my attentions to bring him the gift of Christ during our courtship. And, if he chooses to accept the gift of Christ before marriage, that he is deserving of my bringing to him the continued gift of Christ’s love and teachings each and every day in our marriage. And yet, if he does not accept this gift of Christ during our courtship, then I know he will not be accepting of that continued gift of Christ in our marriage. I cannot give what someone will not receive.

 

[thechrismyster]

sounds like some on this board would be quick to cast the first stone.

a persons past, is their past.
and as a mate, its not in your hands.
to punish someone for their past sins, is in effect, cutting off your nose to spite your faith. it may be YOU who are losing out on the love of your life.
maybe Jesus brought the person to you, so that you may teach your love of God and purity to them.
But in the end, their past is none of your business.
May you only live up to the standard you set for others, and if your EVER fall short of the perfection you demand, you become a hypocrite.

 

[misericordie]

thechrismyster:

sounds like some on this board would be quick to cast the first stone.

a persons past, is their past.
and as a mate, its not in your hands.
to punish someone for their past sins, is in effect, cutting off your nose to spite your faith. it may be YOU who are losing out on the love of your life.
maybe Jesus brought the person to you, so that you may teach your love of God and purity to them.
But in the end, their past is none of your business.
May you only live up to the standard you set for others, and if your EVER fall short of the perfection you demand, you become a hypocrite.

This is great, I agree.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

JDS2oo6:

Rachel,

I disagree with most everyone here on the board.

Like you, I am saving my virginity until I am married. However, I feel if someone can’t save their virginity for me until we’re married (even if we haven’t met), they’ll never truly love me. They lived for their own extreme selfishness before they met someone like you or me.

You can ultimately forgive the guy (which you should and I would forgive a girl if they did these things before they met me), but that would pretty much automatically disqualify them from any future with me. I couldn’t live with and marry someone who is not faithful to me.

Well, at least you’re honest with your feelings. But there is a middle ground between having your unwavering commitment to chastity and being selfish in the extreme for life. I say this to you in case, heaven forbid, you ever fall yourself. Your attitude might prevent you from considering a truly outstanding person as your spouse, but also, if you fall, might hinder you in considering yourself “worthy” of marrying a virgin. It may also taint your marriage, should you and your future fiance fail to wait until your wedding night. I have heard of this happening.

Chastity is not an end unto itself. It is meant to enable you to give and receive love, not to ever hinder you from it. Do you see the difference? If you do not, remember that Jesus did not spurn “loose” women who came to him with a pure, repentant love (“Does He not know what sort of woman it is that touches Him?”) Pursue chastity with that always in mind. Otherwise, it is just a form of spiritual pride, the most hardening of sins. “Pride goeth before a fall”… be careful of how hard you are on fellow sinners. We all are in need of the mercy of God.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

Ourladyguadalup:

I do not want to come across as rude or uncaring, because I do understand and have been in your shoes…You know he is not completely practicing…**do not **start a relationship with him Cool it NOW! …

If you (the woman in the relationship under discussion) do not accept this fellow as he is now, I would have to agree. It is not fair or loving to marry someone as a “fixer-upper.” It is, rather, judgmental and controlling to put yourself in the position of the parent and them in the position of the child. You will do better to marry someone whose sins you can accept and whose judgement you trust.

There are few of us so accepting that we cannot think of anything about our mate that we’d like to change. That is not what I’m talking about. But if you cannot look on the person you marry and honestly say you would have no other, that they inspire you, that you feel blessed that they chose you, then do that person a big favor and look elsewhere. (Trust me, even with the best of choices, most of us married folk have enough clueless days as it is, when we wonder “What was I thinking?!?”)

 

[system]

Rachel25:

… if he does not accept this gift of Christ during our courtship, then I know he will not be accepting of that continued gift of Christ in our marriage. I cannot give what someone will not receive.

Oh, be careful, honey! I think it’s true what someone else said, that you could be missing out on the person God put in your life for your husband.

No one is finished, dear. We’re all in a process. One of the things that marriage will show you is your faults you’ve never seen before because you’ve never lived in such intimacy with another before.

Your fiance is where he is on his road to Christ. His sanctification, like everyone’s, is a process & it’s incomplete at the moment.

You must give him time & space to grow towards God. Don’t cut him off now because he’s not where you want him to be. Dr Ray often has questions like this, & he says the same thing: in most relationships the two people are at different places in their faith journey, & in his experience, it’s often the woman who is ahead of the man. That doesn’t mean that she becomes his teacher, wagging her finger in his face & lecturing him. It means that as he lives with her & sees the beauty of her faith, how she brings grace to his life, he comes to love that beauty & wants to be more like her.

Dr Ray also says that if you want your spouse to become closer to Christ & to accept your devotion to Christ in the Church, you must show your spouse that your faith makes you a better person (you may even have to say that aloud, if the spouse is loudly saying that he resents your religious practice).

I understand that you are broken-hearted to find out that your fiance has not been pure. I have BEEN there, and I know that pain, so trust me, with prayer - lots of prayer - the pain goes away and you’re able to accept this flawed human being. God will heal the pain in your heart & all the thoughts you have. As you pray, you will come to see that you are not marrying a perfect, flawless human being, that this is only the first thing you will have to forgive in a long lifetime of forgiving.

You will love him more because he has fallen; your love for him will make you more compassionate toward him when he falls. Your realization of your own sinfulness will also make you more compassionate.

You’re worried because RIGHT NOW he isn’t in the spiritual state that you’d like him to be in; that he can’t offer you the same gift of purity that you can offer him.

Sweetheart, if you marry this man, here’s what I guess will happen: You will give him this beautiful gift of your purity, & he will weep (at least inside) at what you’ve given him, & be filled with sorrow that he didn’t have that to give you. He will find out AFTER MARRIAGE, with the grace of the sacrament, what he didn’t know a year ago & doesn’t know now: the beauty & depth of self-giving love blessed by God in marriage.

I think that if you marry this man, long after you have been able to forgive & feel compassion for this pre-marital infidelity (which is what it is - you are now faithful to whomever you will marry; he has not been, probably because he has never looked at it that way), long after you have put it behind you, he will regret that he didn’t reserve himself solely for you, that he somehow ‘lessened’ his gift of self to you.

My dear, I’ve been exactly where you are. I know how a man feels worse, bad, unworthy when he finds the woman he truly loves, the woman God seems to have made just for him - & suddenly feels that he ‘doesn’t deserve’ her because of pre-marital infidelity. Have mercy on this man you love.

God will bring it right, & my bet is that if you marry this man, when he becomes aware of what he tossed away, it will deepen his love for you, because he’ll want to make up, somehow, for not being able to give you the same total gift of self that you are able to give to him.

Pray, pray. And God bless you both.

 

[montanaman]

The Rigbys wrote:

Well, I’m not one of those “virgin-only advocates”, but wanted to give my about when to discuss sexual histories with a prospective spouse. (Or an actual spouse, for that matter.)

In a word: Never.

Really? I tend to agree, but when that question comes up, I can see how it might be difficult to avoid…

I had a long flight across the country yesterday and therefore had lots of time to think. There’s this girl I work with who I’ve had in the corner of my eye for quite some time. There was just something about her, and after a while, for work reasons, we began e-mailing each other. It’s blossomed into this very intimate, and innocent, friendship. For the last month she’s been in Texas for work-related reasons, but she’ll be back in four days and it’s highly likely we’ll be spending time together with something else on our mind.

(I know, I know, don’t date co-workers…)

She is guarded, and almost formal about the way she interacts with people, but I know her to be pious, intelligent, humble, devout AND beautiful. (Go fig–I never really expected to find the whole package). This is all very hypothetical right now, but I find myself very attracted to her–at least on paper. If things were to move along, we were to fall in love, etc., eventually the questions would arise. Personally, I suspect she’s not 100% innocent, but that actually doesn’t bother me much. However, whatever sins she may have committed in this department pale compared to mine. I’ve repented, confessed, recommitted, and I’m a much better man than I’ve ever been. But, I think she would deserve to know about my “past” if she asked.

I guess I don’t have a question here. Maybe just an observation. No one is going to be satisfied with a vague comment. And it seems disingenuous to give vague statements to someone worth having the conversation with–even if it might be a deal-breaker. It seems to me that you’re creating bigger problems by leaving these questions vague or unanswered going into marriage.

Like I said, this is all very hypothetical right now. We’ve been on one “date,” you could say, and I have my reservations. In fact, it seems cruel that I could meet this girl–someone so GOOD yet I don’t feel more–when she’s the only one of her kind I’ve ever met.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

montanaman:

Personally, I suspect she’s not 100% innocent, but that actually doesn’t bother me much. However, whatever sins she may have committed in this department pale compared to mine. I’ve repented, confessed, recommitted, and I’m a much better man than I’ve ever been. But, I think she would deserve to know about my “past” if she asked.

 Yes, she deserves to know, if she insists. But you will be wise to be as spare as you can with the details on the grounds that a) you're not proud of it, b) it would be a betrayal of the person you were with to divulge too much, and c) once it is said, it cannot be unsaid, and she may regret ever hearing it. Have this discussion on theoretical grounds before spilling your guts. She may rather you both keep your own secrets.
 What is more important is that you establish what ground rules you will have so that neither of you will fall in the future. As in: if you are with a friend or co-worker of the opposite sex, it is always in a public place, if you meet socially with a person of the opposite sex, you always tell your spouse, if you plan a meeting with such a person, your spouse is always invited and always told in advance. Or maybe you might both agree to avoid such socializing altogether, restricting yourself to socializing with friends of the opposite sex in group settings. You need to establish the rules of trust that work for you. (I personally agree with the Dr. Phil favorite, "He who has nothing to hide, hides nothing," as a start.)
 You might also discuss what each of you would do if a mutual friend or a relative makes advances. These are the things that will safeguard chastity in your marriage, not knowing all the details of each other's pasts. And assuming that you now want to remain chaste until you marry, agree on some similar rules for achieving that, because it won't happen by leaving it to blind chance and "won't" power.