Advice Please - Wife Going Overboard

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Delta1977

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Hi Catholic Answers,

This is kind of my first and last resort. I hope I can gain some insight and advice here, because my family is really having problems - because there is conflict between me and my wife I can’t really speak with my friends or relatives about this and I am praying someone has something brilliant to say that could fix this (haha.)

I will try to be as clear as possible, but please feel free to ask for clarifications. I can take honesty so please don’t hold back your thoughts. I am really in trouble and I just need help.

My wife and I have been married for 12 years. We have five children, who are 11, 9, 6, 4 and 1 1/2. We were married in the Church. Both of us are lifetime Catholics and have always practiced the faith. Both of our families of origin are Catholic and have supported us in raising our kids. I work full-time outside of the home and my wife has always been an at-home mom. I my wife and I are both 36 years old.

When our oldest was ready for Kindergarten, we enrolled her in our parish school. Both my wife and I went to that same school and it has excellent academics and good strong faith based teaching. Our daughter thrived there, and we subsequently enrolled the next two kids in the same school as they came of age. They have all done well at the school and we have no major complaints. They have good friends, good teachers, etc.

Two years ago my wife met another mom who homeschooled her kids. Although both were Catholic, this other mom (I will call her Susie) had a different lifestyle than we did. She had 8 children and considered herself a providentialist. She also homeschooled, made her own clothes and lived an extremely religious life. She and her family only went to Latin Mass, and pretty much their entire life was wrapped up in everything possible Catholic-related. Her kids seemed unworldly (to put it nicely), and really out of touch with the modern world. I liked Susie but her approach was a little extreme for me.

After spending time with Susie, my wife was introduced to other women in Susie’s homeschooling club. My wife started to become less and less the woman I married and more like Susie and these other moms, who were extremely strict in their practice of the faith.

Now - do NOT get me wrong. We are totally faithful Catholics. There was nothing lacking in our faith life in our home. We went to Mass every weekend, I am in KofC, we pray as a family, the kids go to Catholic schools, we talk about the Lord all the time, and my wife and I follow all the rules of married life. I totally supported my wife in her weekly adoration and Ladies bible group.

But, over time everything became Catholic this, the Church that, Jesus this, prayer that - and I got kind of sick of it. Sometimes I just want to take my wife out for a nice dinner and drinks and not talk about religion. Sometimes I want to laugh at a PG-13 joke (obviously no kids around.) Sometimes I like to sit down on a Saturday evening and have a beer. I liked my wife in a pair of jeans, but now she will only wear long skirts and frumpy blouses. Her style of dress has changed 180 degrees and to be honest, it’s not very appealing to me. She went from a Nordstrom woman to a dumpy, overly modest sexless housewife in the time of about 3 months. Of course I have not used those words to describe her, I would never say that to her face - but I want you to get the idea.

She has now also said that she wants to cover her hair and only go to Latin Mass. We used to go to the Latin mass a few times a year to keep the kids familiar with it, but it’s not my regular preference. None of our friends attend that Mass and it’s just not something I connect with as well as regular Mass. I don’t mind going once a month or so, but now all my wife talks about is how irreverent the regular mass is, how it should be more solemn and how it’s so tacky she can’t bear it any more. Our regular Mass is totally fine and our priest is great, I have no idea what she’s talking about except for that I know Susie et. al. won’t go there.

My wife also now refuses to take communion from anyone but the deacon or priest, and will literally walk over to another line if she sees that a eucharistic minister is distributing communion in our line when we do go to regular mass. It is so embarrassing and rude, especially since she takes the two oldest with her. She has also started wearing a scarf on her head at mass. I do not like this practice but I have said nothing about it because I like to pick my battles and I am not going to get into a fight about a square of fabric. But, lately, she has been talking about wearing a hair cover at all times and I am really not cool with that. If I wanted to marry a Jew or a menonite, I would have. I think it looks ridiculous and overly pious. She says it helps her show reverence for the Lord, but I think at the heart of it she just wants to seem holier than thou.

She is now telling me we have to pull our kids out of school so that she can homeschool. I have no doubt she is smart enough to teach the kids up until a certain point, but I think the kids are doing great just where they are. They don’t want to leave their friends and school behind. They are thriving, but my wife says the school just isn’t “Catholic” enough for her anymore. I could not disagree more and am really having a hard time with this particular “change” in our lives because I feel it would harm the kids to be yanked out of school just so my wife could have her satisfaction in being “in” with the supercatholicmommies club.
 
My two oldest children are daughters. My wife is now wanting them to wear skirts or dresses full time, and has said she has concerns about them being involved in competitive sports teams because that does not help foster their femininity and their future vocations as either mothers or nuns. I just about blew a gasket on that one. Our girls love playing basketball and golf, as well as running track for their school. They wear jeans, slacks, shorts, skirts, and dresses and I refuse to have them be put into a domestic mold at this age. They are kids and deserve the opportunities to pursue their interests without being pigeonholed by my wife who wants to turn them into submissive women.

My wife recently canceled our cable because she says TV is mostly satanic. I loved watching Sports Center, ESPN and cooking shows. Oh well.

The latest battle has been that she wants everyone in our family to wear a brown scapular. I am fine with her wearing one, but it is not something I wish to do myself. I don’t like wearing stuff and I don’t feel called to display any religious items on my body. I told her to go ahead and do it if she wants but please not to buy one for me. She said I was being a poor example of the faith and not leading my family well. She said she was praying for my conversion and hoped that I would set aside my “worldly ways and vices” to join her in her journey to heaven. I said I was very okay with my faith life and my relationship both with the Church and with God, and that I felt I was doing a fine job of teaching my kids to be good Catholics, strong in the faith, but also preparing them for real life and the world we live in. She said we are not supposed to take part in the world, but just exist in it.

Where did my funny, fun bride go? Where did my sexy, brilliant wife go? I love her so much, I could just cry every day. I want her back. I feel like she’s joined a cult and I don’t know how to get her out. We were fine - really - believe me - we were not leading a sinful life. We were like the other Catholic families at Mass. Now, my wife is on a campaign to take all the fun out of our world, make herself unattractive, chastise me at every turn, and take our kids with her along for the ride. I try hard not to argue with my wife in front of the kids, but when she is trying to wrestle our 9-year-old into a matronly homemade prairie dress, I do put my foot down and get her regular clothes. When she is telling my 12-year-old that showing her knees is a sin, I have to step in. I am a good dad with good family values, but this is just too much.

My wife reads a lot of blogs from women who are really over the top like her and I almost want to rip the computer out of the house. If that works for other families then okay, but it’s not what I want and not what I think is right. I am living a sad existence and don’t know what to do or where to turn. I feel like I’ve lost the love of my life and my marriage.
Thanks for hearing me out.
 
Does your wife have any “normal” female friends? I wonder if she’s depressed.

Can you find a traditionalist-minded priest to talk to you and your wife together? You’d best sound him out in advance.
 
I am sympathetic to your plight. I was in an environment similar to your wife’s for a number of years, and it did have a cultish feel to it. They are well-intentioned but it’s almost as if they are on the road to virtue and go past the right exit.

Do you have a priest that you are both familiar with, that you could both go talk to? Or a Catholic counselor? Your wife will probably dismiss a non-Catholic marriage counselor.
 
Well, St Paul does say wives are to be submisisve to their husbands, so you could always pull rank. 😉 Seriously, you might have to on a lot of this.

How about a get away, just the two of you? You could share your issues while away for a weekend in a B&B or something. Reconnect and share with her just how out of balance she has become.

I do think her friend’s influence is cultish, and NOT a balanced Catholic life at all.

Counseling with your pastor might also help.

Yes, she is overboard and off the deep end, and if it is impacting your children then do put your foot down-- no homeschooling or pulling them from sports. I am in favor of homeschooling for the right reasons, and controling your family in this manner is not the reason to homeschool.
 
There is a sub-chapter, for lack of a better known title, here in CA for Scrupulosity, which may be where your wife is headed - if not there already. Your wife’s intentions are ‘good’ but, Jesus did teach us to get along with, and become part of, and active in, our COMMUNITY. Try not to be critical of her, her friends, or anyone else who prefer pre-Vatican II Catholicism. My father always reminded me not to be “too Catholic” but, to place those extra energies into helping others, as Jesus taught us to do - reach out to the marginalized. Pray.
 
I’ve been that wife. What stopped me was 1) we have no Latin Mass anywhere near where we live, 2) I had / have no friends of the traditional Catholic variety,** 3) by the Grace of God, I began to see the effect of all the constant negative religious talk was having on my family. I was literally obsessed and could not think or talk about anything else. I realized I could very well be turning my family away from God, rather than closer, by my actions.** My H was never on board with the more extreme aspects of my beliefs … but he did / does agree that the Latin Mass is superior, and that the culture is a filth pit of immorality. He even encouraged my daughter and I to wear veils to our Novus Ordo Mass, and we did completely and utterly alone, for a year. Then I asked if we could stop because we felt it drew attention to our “weird” family in a negative way. We didn’t believe for one minute that other modern minded parishioners thought we were exceptionally devout or humble. We figured they thought we were weird extremists. That’s all.

My H didn’t say a lot to me about this phase (newly converted too btw). Although once he exclaimed in frustration that I wasn’t a nun and shouldn’t act or dress that way!

Anyway, I thought I was doing good, I seemed to be attracted to a more rule based approach to Faith (and all things) and again, it was God that through prayer and introspection and observation led me to see that I was being very Pharisaical and that it was born of pride and not charity.

I can’t offer help except for the fact that you are the head of the household, you are to lead and your wife and family are to obey in all things (except sin). If your wife truly believes in that teaching, she needs to submit to your authority. Only problem is, if she’s like me, she might have begun to label all kinds of things sins, and therefore she would have an “out” about obeying you. 🤷

She’s got a lot on her plate, a very large family, lots of responsibility. She might be freaking out a bit about someday having to answer directly to God about what she did and did not do in regard to raising her children. She might feel this enormous weight on her shoulders and instead of going to Jesus and the saints, she is still operating under her own will power…and that takes lots and lots of rules and regulations to make sure she’s doing the “right” thing.

Maybe if you tried to see it from her point of view. Try to relate to her desire to do good, to be good, to raise the children well. Maybe acknowledge that you admire the sacrifices she’s willing to make to try to show her love and obedience to God. And get her to talk more about her feelings and her hopes and fears.

IF she is like me, she’s terribly afraid of losing her children (and them losing their souls) to the evil influences of this world.

God Bless.
 
This is interesting. I go to a traditional Latin Mass parish, and NONE of the families are anything like what you described. The women wear veils and long dresses, but their clothing is very attractive AND modest… at the same time. There is no exchange of immodest beauty to modest frumpiness.

It seems that the parish you are associated with is rather extreme, as I’m sure you know. What kind of parish is it? (order or association)

I must sympathize with your wife in that I find the OF rather uncomfortable, after having grown such a love for the old mass, but by NO means does that mean I will not go to an OF mass if the occasion commands or for any small reason. It’s the mass, and there’s nothing at all to stop me from attending it.

One other thing I wished to mention: The veil women wear in EF parishes are, specifically, “prayer veils” (that isn’t the name, but the purpose) and they are intended to be worn when praying. When in the church, they are worn because a person in the Church is generally praying. However, unless your wife intends to be praying all the time, wherever she goes, wearing the veil all the time is not fitting.
 
Wow. You are in a difficult position. It does sound like your wife is meaning well yet either scrupulous or as you say, “going overboard.” It’s a very tricky situation.

Patrick Madrid has a book called More Catholic Than the Pope which might be somewhat helpful in understanding these people she’s hanging with - see

store.patrickmadrid.com/more-catholic-than-the-pope/

The hard part is, though, trying to sift through what’s going on in your wife’s mind without her perceiving that as a threat or even sinful on your part to question her newfound faith practices. That’s a toughie. Especially where your kids are involved. Try to convey to her that you don’t want your kids being corrupted by the bad in pop culture either, but that to force them to wear clothing that makes them feel dorky and set apart from their peers is very likely to backfire and make them rebel.

Pray hard.
 
I’m guessing this has already come up, but I will throw out a guess that this type of behavior will not be healthy for the spiritual futures of your children. If they see their mother as trying to take everything the know and love (friends, school), then they will, when they have the power, look for a way out. It is especially difficult when it is as sudden and violent as you describe it. When this happens, people often way overcompensate and may reject Catholicism or religious all together. If they are impressionable enough where they will see their mother’s views throughout childhood, I do not think they will be able to continue the same lifestyle in the real world. It simply isn’t realistic for the vast majority of people. If you have yet to do so, you may want to point out how this will likely, in the end, damage the spiritual welfare of your children in the long run.
 
I think she needs to know the depths of what you feel…Take her out to dinner, get a babysitter and pour your heart out.
 
I’m glad that others find it cultish because this was the kind of behavior that drew me away from protestantism.

I understand why this kind of behavior is attractive because there’s a definite code and in an increasingly chaotic culture, it’s nice to have those kinds of limits and structure. Does she have an addictive personality? Could it be just a fad? What happened to her more normal friends?

I’m just speculating, but most people don’t make abrupt changes like that. I mean, my husband would be so upset with me if one day I just up and canceled the cable w/o talking about it w/him first. Just out of respect. So, I’m wondering what changed inside her to make all these drastic changes seem okay?

Praying for all of you.
 
Of course I have not used those words to describe her, I would never say that to her face - but I want you to get the idea.
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Don’t worry, she knows. 😦
 
OP, you have my complete sympathy, I can hear in your post how blindsided you have been by all this, and I definitely see how it can be a difficult to combat. Here is my advice:
  1. Make sure the women your wife has become friendly with are actually Catholic, ie not sedevacantists or SSPX, which honestly it sounds a bit like based on some of your descriptions. I know women who strongly prefer homeschooling, only wear skirts, cover their hair (even full time), but most of these women don’t try to ‘push’ these lifestyle choices on others, they see them as personal devotions. It sounds as though your wife is being made to feel as though she is not ‘Catholic’ enough and that is leading to some of her changes.
If she is not being pushed, then it sounds as though your wife was perhaps a bit insecure about her own decisions and faith life, which is a topic that should be addressed with a priest you both respect.

If they are Catholics who have split from the communion, I honestly would discourage the relationships and speak with some traditionalist priests (such as the ones at the parish that offers the TLM) about the spiritual dangers of being tempted to leave the Church. I say this not because people who belong to these groups are inherently bad, but because it sounds as though your wife is very susceptible to their influence.
  1. I honestly would ‘pull rank’ as a PP put it, regarding pulling the children out of school/sports. You have a big say in the upbringing of your children as well and it does not sound as though the school (based on your description) is teaching watered-down theology, etc. I would offer as a compromise that if she wants to spend a little extra time teaching the children how to cook or clean on occasion, that is fine because honestly those are skills all children (boys and girls) should know anyway.
  2. If she has developed such a strong preference for the TLM, agree to perhaps every other week, with the understanding that she does not complain or refuse to go on the weeks that the family attends the newer mass.
  3. In regards to her dress, sadly I do not think there is much that can be done here. I would try to talk to her about it. For example, try to help her find clothes that are modest (not clingy or form-fitting or low cut) but are still stylish.
  4. In regards to the children’s dress. Agree with her that they should absolutely be dressing modestly, but that does not mean ‘prairie’ clothes. It may be hard to find stylish clothes that are modest in today’s world but certainly not impossible. Have the girls wear dresses on Sundays and whatever is modestly comfortable on Saturday (I am assuming there is a uniform for during the week), ie they can wear jeans, but they should not be skin tight. Unfortunately, it may require a little pulling rank here as well.
  5. Find a priest you both trust and start seeing him for regular counseling. Remind your wife that major spiritual and lifestyle changes like this should not be made without the guidance of a spiritual father. They are there to help guide us and help us understand God’s will. Have an agreement beforehand, once you find a priest you both trust, that you will both trust him absolutely. IE neither one of you gets to say ‘I do not like him any more’ as soon as he does not agree with one of you. Prayerfully submit both of your spiritual lives to his guidance, and make sure he knows about the big role he is playing in your marriage.
You are both in my prayers. Remember always that your wife is trying to be a good Catholic wife and mother first of all, even if it is totally not in a way you would agree with. Keeping her good intentions in the forefront of your mind can help prevent you from becoming too frustrated. I imagine she is under a lot of stress, especially with the teen years approaching, and is terrified of losing her children ‘to the world’, unfortunately she does not realize that her actions are probably not going to help her with her children. Keep a good bond with all your children and help guide them even if their mother is pushing them.
 
I didn’t even know people like this existed until I started reading the catholic mommy blogs. You may need to seriously start putting your foot down and tell her that the whole Latin Mass, traditionalist stuff ain’t happening. Whenever I see people talk about the EF or OF mass, I just roll my eyes. Mass is Mass. If she wants something really traditional, take her to an Eastern Catholic Diving Liturgy.
 
Rose74 said:
If she wants something really traditional, take her to an Eastern Catholic Diving Liturgy.
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Now that sounds fun!

OP-

This is my impression from what you’ve written.

The draw your wife is feeling right now has 2 parts.
The one part is being drawn TO the traditional Mass and the traditional devotions. That in itself is a good thing. Really.
The second is that she’s being drawn IN to an exclusive little clique. Not a good thing.

Here’s the rub though.

If you guys go full on trad, the you’ll see that the problem areas you describe really have no place there. Just like Catholicism in general right now…the disordered application of zeal can result in obsession and scruples. If the trad-ness is real and a call from God for her, then this problem will be brought into the light, and lose its power. It seems like a pretty drastic change in a short period of time, which is a red flag that the influence of the hens is driving the desire to go full trad.

I’ll have to check back later, man…I have to go.

Trads are not nuts, in general!
 
I have to wonder what the wife’s side of the story is.

Homeschooling,
The TLM.
Headcovering.

These are not “bad” things to judge someone by.

In fact they are just as Catholic as the KofC
which leads me to an interesting point.
The OP describes himself as a faithful Catholic and cites.
The KofC
Catholic schools
Weekly Mass attendance.

I know many Catholics who are all three of those things as well that are not “good Catholics”
To be fair I know some in the “Traditional” crowd that are not “good Catholics” either.
Perhaps the Husband should study his faith to see why some of these things could very well be compatible with a deep Catholic faith. In fact they could be halmarks of it.
If this was my spouse I would be having dialogue. Who knows, maybe she has something to add to the husbands faith.🤷
I would be proud of a spouse with a deepening and strenthening faith. It would concern me more if after 12 years of marraige my spouse thought exactly the same.
 
1ke said:
Well, St Paul does say wives are to be submisisve to their husbands, so you could always pull rank. 😉 Seriously, you might have to on a lot of this.

How about a get away, just the two of you? You could share your issues while away for a weekend in a B&B or something. Reconnect and share with her just how out of balance she has become.

I do think her friend’s influence is cultish, and NOT a balanced Catholic life at all.

Counseling with your pastor might also help.

Yes, she is overboard and off the deep end, and if it is impacting your children then do put your foot down-- no homeschooling or pulling them from sports. I am in favor of homeschooling for the right reasons, and controling your family in this manner is not the reason to homeschool.
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This is excellent advice.

I agree that pointing out St. Paul’s take on things, plus the Church’s emphasis that husbands and wives “be subject to one another our of reverence for Christ” might be an excellent starting point. (It seems highly ironic to me that someone so intent on being a pious Catholic wife should so strongly fight her husband’s authority in the family on this…)

There is nothing wrong with wanting to cover one’s head in Church, as was the practice for centuries, or attend the Latin Mass. However, when one rejects the validity of the Ordinary Form (and thus the authority of the Church) she has veered dangerously off course.

It’s time to step in firmly and practice some “headship”, Dad.
 
I hope this is not out of line, but I think women in headcoverings for Mass are very attractive!👍
 
newlywed8 said:
OP, you have my complete sympathy, I can hear in your post how blindsided you have been by all this, and I definitely see how it can be a difficult to combat. Here is my advice:
  1. Make sure the women your wife has become friendly with are actually Catholic, ie not sedevacantists or SSPX, which honestly it sounds a bit like based on some of your descriptions. I know women who strongly prefer homeschooling, only wear skirts, cover their hair (even full time), but most of these women don’t try to ‘push’ these lifestyle choices on others, they see them as personal devotions. It sounds as though your wife is being made to feel as though she is not ‘Catholic’ enough and that is leading to some of her changes.
If she is not being pushed, then it sounds as though your wife was perhaps a bit insecure about her own decisions and faith life, which is a topic that should be addressed with a priest you both respect.

If they are Catholics who have split from the communion, I honestly would discourage the relationships and speak with some traditionalist priests (such as the ones at the parish that offers the TLM) about the spiritual dangers of being tempted to leave the Church. I say this not because people who belong to these groups are inherently bad, but because it sounds as though your wife is very susceptible to their influence.
  1. I honestly would ‘pull rank’ as a PP put it, regarding pulling the children out of school/sports. You have a big say in the upbringing of your children as well and it does not sound as though the school (based on your description) is teaching watered-down theology, etc. I would offer as a compromise that if she wants to spend a little extra time teaching the children how to cook or clean on occasion, that is fine because honestly those are skills all children (boys and girls) should know anyway.
  2. If she has developed such a strong preference for the TLM, agree to perhaps every other week, with the understanding that she does not complain or refuse to go on the weeks that the family attends the newer mass.
  3. In regards to her dress, sadly I do not think there is much that can be done here. I would try to talk to her about it. For example, try to help her find clothes that are modest (not clingy or form-fitting or low cut) but are still stylish.
  4. In regards to the children’s dress. Agree with her that they should absolutely be dressing modestly, but that does not mean ‘prairie’ clothes. It may be hard to find stylish clothes that are modest in today’s world but certainly not impossible. Have the girls wear dresses on Sundays and whatever is modestly comfortable on Saturday (I am assuming there is a uniform for during the week), ie they can wear jeans, but they should not be skin tight. Unfortunately, it may require a little pulling rank here as well.
  5. Find a priest you both trust and start seeing him for regular counseling. Remind your wife that major spiritual and lifestyle changes like this should not be made without the guidance of a spiritual father. They are there to help guide us and help us understand God’s will. Have an agreement beforehand, once you find a priest you both trust, that you will both trust him absolutely. IE neither one of you gets to say ‘I do not like him any more’ as soon as he does not agree with one of you. Prayerfully submit both of your spiritual lives to his guidance, and make sure he knows about the big role he is playing in your marriage.
You are both in my prayers. Remember always that your wife is trying to be a good Catholic wife and mother first of all, even if it is totally not in a way you would agree with. Keeping her good intentions in the forefront of your mind can help prevent you from becoming too frustrated. I imagine she is under a lot of stress, especially with the teen years approaching, and is terrified of losing her children ‘to the world’, unfortunately she does not realize that her actions are probably not going to help her with her children. Keep a good bond with all your children and help guide them even if their mother is pushing them.
Click to expand...
All of the above. One of the best posts I’ve read in a long time. 👍
 
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