Advice Please - Wife Going Overboard

[aspirant]

If they and their husbands are fine with this than that’s all that matters. They are not wrong or bad in and of themselves.

I agree. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with it. People are welcome to think it’s lovely and thoroughly enjoy it. I am likewise welcome to think it is hideously unbecoming. People think the same of my clothes. So what?

 

[Iheartcoffee]

I didn’t take the time to go through all the responses, so forgive me if I am repeating someone else’s ideas!

1. There is a really good book called “Style, Sex, and Substance: 10 Catholic Women Consider the Things That Really Matter” This is a good set of essays written by and for Catholic women that do all kinds of things! Some stay home, some work, some are married, some aren’t married, etc. They really show that being a good Catholic woman doesn’t mean you have to conform to some kind of Catholic mold. It’s a great book. I think your wife could really get something from it. Many of these women also write for the National Catholic Register. They are solid Catholics!
2. Find some way to lead her to some of the blogs by some of the women in the book mentioned in tip #1, or one of the other blogs by one of the women that write for the National Catholic Register. At the risk of becoming completely non-PC with the rest of this tip, I firmly believe “mommy blogs” are one of the worst things the internet has to offer. They serve up a holier than thou guilt about everything from religion to diapers to breastfeeding. More often than not, these blogs are responsible for a ton of fear mongering and very little in the way of actual tips. Some of what these mommy blogs propose are completely 100% dangerous and they get weirdly cult-ish because a lot of their fans take everything they say as the absolute truth. I actually saw one that claimed the recommendation to start kids off on cereals was dangerous because “carbs cause food allergies”. Clearly the writer had no clue about basic science because the breast milk she has been giving her child is full of carbs!!! As someone that works in the medical field it makes me just want to bang my head into something when I see this! BUUUUT, I digress…anyway, mommy blogs are dangerous.
3. Help your wife to find some friends outside the circle she has been associating with. Being Catholic doesn’t mean insulating oneself from the world and trying to be as different as possible, (prairie dresses, constant headcovering, etc.). The great thing about being Catholic is that we have a lot of freedom to be awesome Catholics and be right in the thick of things when it comes to fashion and lifestyle. Google Leah Darrow and her work. She promotes modesty and chastity but she is very clear about the fact that this DOES NOT mean being frumpy! We should be setting good examples, not hiding away and being completely unattractive.
4. When it comes to sports, Catholic girls are absolutely allowed!!! Consider Meseret Defar, she won the gold at the last Olympics and pulled a picture of Our Lady out of her tank top and thanked her in front of the world! Jordyn Wieber and McKayla Maroney are both Catholic according to Wikipedia. They are two of the best gymnasts in the world and they represented the US in the last Olympics! Clearly, we Catholic girls have some athletic skills…

 

[russet1]

I agree. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with it. People are welcome to think it’s lovely and thoroughly enjoy it. I am likewise welcome to think it is hideously unbecoming. People think the same of my clothes. So what?

Sometimes I feel like I am living in the bizzaro world when we as Catholics have to say things like: It is not intrinsically wrong for a woman to dress a certain modest way, that the EF is not intrinsically wrong or that homeschooling is not intrinsically wrong.
No wonder we lose all the important battles with the secular world, we are too busy making gagging sounds at someone who is trying to be virtuous only because it is not the way we try to be virtuous.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Thank you everyone! So much good insight to think about.

For the record - my wife has purchased things from a place called “Lillies of the field.” It’s not exactly Laura Ingals, but it’s enough to get noticed as weird in town. I keep thinking to myself, “If anything can be considered Catholic birth control, a long, baggy denim dress with loafers is it.”

And honestly I do not blame Susie. Susie’s life is Susie’s life. Her husband is okay with it I guess. I just don’t want that life. **My wife has always been somewhat insecure and these are her choices. I think she has always had a problem with wanting to be the “best” or the “most” at things. Like, when she takes up a new hobby, it’s 100%. She was like this with coupons for a while, and then was like this with selling Mary Kay… It’s a thing she does that she does not do anything just a little or part time. It’s feast or famine.
**
I have no problem meeting with the Latin mass priest. I know he travels to say that Mass and is over 80, but I will try to figure out where he lives and call if it’s okay with my wife.

Tonight we are going to sit down after the kids go to bed and talk. She dis not blow up about the letter which is good news!

For the record - it has never been a custom of the Church to cover up one’s hair full time, right? Isn’t that Jewish or Amish?

So the OP wrote here that his wife has always had a problem with going to extremes. This seems to fit into her previous pattern, except that now she is focusing on being 100% fundamentalist Catholic (I use that term because what she is doing reminds me of strict fundamentalist homeschoolers). She’s gone overboard with couponing, and selling Mary Kay cosmetics, and probably other things. I know people like that. They know no moderation. It’s just that they don’t focus on Latin Mass, “modest” dress, and homeschooling. For now…

 

[Evania]

Sometimes I feel like I am living in the bizzaro world when we as Catholics have to say things like: It is not intrinsically wrong for a woman to dress a certain modest way, that the EF is not intrinsically wrong or that homeschooling is not intrinsically wrong.
No wonder we lose all the important battles with the secular world, we are too busy making gagging sounds at someone who is trying to be virtuous only because it is not the way we try to be virtuous.

 

[aspirant]

No wonder we lose all the important battles with the secular world, we are too busy making gagging sounds at someone who is trying to be virtuous only because it is not the way we try to be virtuous.

LOL. If Christian doctrine required all Christians to kow-tow to fashions they don’t like just because some other Christian liked it, that’d be one seriously messed up religion. Christianity does not require us to have the same tastes. That’s a good thing about our faith. We’re not “losing battles with the secular world” by refusing to engage in cultish groupthink about personal tastes in fashion.

 

[Evania]

LOL. If Christian doctrine required all Christians to kow-tow to fashions they don’t like just because some other Christian liked it, that’d be one seriously messed up religion. Christianity does not require us to have the same tastes. That’s a good thing about our faith. We’re not “losing battles with the secular world” by refusing to engage in cultish groupthink about personal tastes in fashion.

Totally missed the point the poster was trying to make…
Where did the poster state that we’re losing battles with the secular world by not agreeing with fashion?

They said that we’re losing battles because we’re making gagging sounds because there are others who are trying to be virtuous, even if it happens to be differently than how we try to be virtuous.

Besides, I think there’s a difference between not liking a person’s outfit and uncharitably making fun of a person for wearing it. Don’t you?

 

[aspirant]

They said that we’re losing battles because we’re making gagging sounds

Which is a direct reference to my post about disliking the fashion.

 

[Evania]

Which is a direct reference to my post about disliking the fashion.

Yes, you are correct. It is a direct reference in the sense that your post was outright ridiculing the clothing the wife and others wear in their attempts to increase in virtue.

Here is what you said:
But, hey, it’s a great look for anyone who’d like to be mistaken for a Mormon fundamentalist polygamist!
Then you proceeded to post a picture of a polygamist family.

Fashion in and of itself isn’t the issue. You are entitled to like or dislike anything that you want. Again, the point the poster was making was that oftentimes people criticize other people of faith for their attempts at sanctity and virtue when it differs from their own. In this case it happens to be the way the OP’s wife and some other Catholic women dress…

 

[aspirant]

Yes, you are correct. It is a direct reference in the sense that your post was outright ridiculing the clothing the wife and others wear in their attempts to increase in virtue.

And it was a gross mischaracterization of my post when russet1 said I was “making gagging sounds at someone who is trying to be virtuous” when, in fact, I was “gagging” at the description of a particular item of clothing: “Ladies’ Prairie Jumper. Here’s a light and carefree jumper that closely resembles the Girls Jumper #10 and would be very nice for mother / daughter outfits.”

Fashion in and of itself isn’t the issue.

No, it’s not. But that has not stopped russet1 from claiming that expressing personal dislike for a particular fashion is the reason “we lose all the important battles with the secular world.”

You are entitled to like or dislike anything that you want.

Not according to russet1. According to him, disliking the description of a particular item of clothing, or the item of clothing itself, is tantamount to “making gagging sounds at someone who is trying to be virtuous.” This claim is untrue.

the point the poster was making was that oftentimes people criticize other people of faith for their attempts at sanctity and virtue when it differs from their own.

If that was his real point, there would be no reference to my post, because I did not criticize anyone’s attempts at sanctity, but rather a fashion.

 

[Mariem2]

I agree with Aspirant. I cringed when I saw the clothes on that website and I don’t know how being made to wear them would increase or enhance the faith of any young Catholic.

 

[Evania]

I personally wouldn’t wear this style either, but I realize that my tastes differ from other women’s. I don’t think it’s the “clothes” that deepen a persons sanctity. The sanctity would be by their efforts of dressing more modestly.

 

[kuppermom]

Okay, so here’s my two cents, hope it helps.
I’m a stay-at-home mom too. There’s lots of time to think. Lots. You start thinking am I being a good enough mom for my kids, am I raising them right in this very messed up world. Being a woman, I can say this. Women like to be in control of situations. What is a stay-at-home moms one thing she’s supposed to get right, raising her kids. Everything else is boring and gets old. So you look at what’s important to you, your kids, how you want them raised. How you can control how and what they grow up to be. That’s not how you explain it to yourself, but that’s what it is. It does happen that we forget about our husbands. Honestly, because, I know for myself, I get so into what is going on with my kids. That’s what I do all day, it’s hard to switch gears. Honestly, right now, talking to a priest that you both trust is going to be your best bet. No offense to you, but if she’s anything like me, she’s only going to believe it coming from a priest. I’ve just been doing something like this lately, and so you’re actually helping me out too. I’ve just been looking and thinking about how sinful I am and getting more and more depressed about how awful I am, that what’s God going to do when I meet him face to face. Will they let me in? But what are the major themes in the bible, do not fear and we have a very forgiving God. But I digress. I hope this helps out.

 

[kuppermom]

BTW, you have really started a heated debate. lol. I didn’t really look at all the replies at first. You might not even get to read my post, but just getting it out helped me.

 

[aspirant]

just getting it out helped me.

 

[fpt]

The OP never mentioned having a problem with his wife in these areas.

Dear Evania,

After spending time with Susie, my wife was introduced to other women in Susie’s homeschooling club. My wife started to become less and less the woman I married and more like Susie and these other moms, who were extremely strict ** It is an issue, the strictism is wrong, also the extremely strictism is very wrong] **in their practice of the faith.

But, over time everything became Catholic this, the Church that, Jesus this, prayer that - and I got kind of sick of it. Sometimes I just want to take my wife out for a nice dinner and drinks and not talk about religion. Sometimes I want to laugh at a PG-13 joke (obviously no kids around.) Sometimes I like to sit down on a Saturday evening and have a beer. I liked my wife in a pair of jeans, but now she will only wear long skirts and frumpy blouses [The fact of dressing up herself like a nun] Her style of dress has changed 180 degrees and to be honest, it’s not very appealing to me. She went from a Nordstrom woman to a dumpy, overly modest sexless housewife in the time of about 3 months** [Victorian wife, puritan wife]**. Of course I have not used those words to describe her, I would never say that to her face - but I want you to get the idea.

She has now also said that she wants to cover her hair and only go to Latin Mass** a lack of trust the the Ordinary form of mass] **We used to go to the Latin mass a few times a year to keep the kids familiar with it, but it’s not my regular preference. None of our friends attend that Mass and it’s just not something I connect with as well as regular Mass. I don’t mind going once a month or so, but now all my wife talks about is how irreverent the regular mass is (It is a sign of lack of trust in this mass), how it should be more solemn and how it’s so tacky she can’t bear it any more. Our regular Mass is totally fine and our priest is great, I have no idea what she’s talking about except for that I know Susie et. al. won’t go there.

My wife also now refuses to take communion from anyone but the deacon or priest, and will literally walk over to another line if she sees that a eucharistic minister is distributing communion in our line when we do go to regular mass. It is so embarrassing and rude, especially since she takes the two oldest with her. She has also started wearing a scarf on her head at mass. I do not like this practice but I have said nothing about it because I like to pick my battles and I am not going to get into a fight about a square of fabric. But, lately, she has been talking about wearing a hair cover at all times (like a nun, muslim wife) and I am really not cool with that. If I wanted to marry a Jew or a menonite, I would have. I think it looks ridiculous and overly pious. She says it helps her show reverence for the Lord, but I think at the heart of it she just wants to seem holier than thou.

She dresses like a nun, wants to wear a hair cover all times… It is very … There is a problematic,

 

[floresco]

Okay, so here’s my two cents, hope it helps.
I’m a stay-at-home mom too. There’s lots of time to think. Lots. You start thinking am I being a good enough mom for my kids, am I raising them right in this very messed up world. Being a woman, I can say this. Women like to be in control of situations. What is a stay-at-home moms one thing she’s supposed to get right, raising her kids. Everything else is boring and gets old. So you look at what’s important to you, your kids, how you want them raised. How you can control how and what they grow up to be. That’s not how you explain it to yourself, but that’s what it is. It does happen that we forget about our husbands. Honestly, because, I know for myself, I get so into what is going on with my kids. That’s what I do all day, it’s hard to switch gears. Honestly, right now, talking to a priest that you both trust is going to be your best bet. No offense to you, but if she’s anything like me, she’s only going to believe it coming from a priest. I’ve just been doing something like this lately, and so you’re actually helping me out too. I’ve just been looking and thinking about how sinful I am and getting more and more depressed about how awful I am, that what’s God going to do when I meet him face to face. Will they let me in? But what are the major themes in the bible, do not fear and we have a very forgiving God. But I digress. I hope this helps out.

This is very insightful. It really fits my experience as a stay-at-home mom. I just keep holding on to the the knowledge that God’s mercy is greater than my sins.

 

[fpt]

The OP never mentioned having a problem with his wife in these areas.

From Delta1977:

My two oldest children are daughters. My wife is now wanting them to wear skirts or dresses full time, and has said she has concerns about them being involved in competitive sports teams because that does not help foster their femininity and their future vocations as either mothers or nuns.** radicalism, fondamentalism, integrism]** I just about blew a gasket on that one. Our girls love playing basketball and golf, as well as running track for their school. They wear jeans, slacks, shorts, skirts, and dresses and I refuse to have them be put into a domestic mold at this age. They are kids and deserve the opportunities to pursue their interests without being pigeonholed by my wife who wants to turn them into submissive women. He has a right reasonning, she is wrong]
**
My wife recently canceled our cable because she says TV is mostly satanic. [Her unilateral action is not very conjugal, it is not mutual and reciprocal] **I loved watching Sports Center, ESPN and cooking shows. Oh well.

The latest battle has been that she wants everyone in our family to wear a brown scapular. I am fine with her wearing one, but it is not something I wish to do myself. I don’t like wearing stuff and I don’t feel called to display any religious items on my body. I told her to go ahead and do it if she wants but please not to buy one for me. She said I was being a poor example of the faith and not leading my family well [the sign of a fundamentalist moralism]. She said she was praying for my conversion and hoped that I would set aside my “worldly ways and vices” to join her in her journey to heaven** the strong exaltation of her faith can be a problem, the fact of not wearing the brown scapular is not a sin, the wearing is not a moral obligation, the wearing is not a sign of holyness, per se]** I said I was very okay with my faith life and my relationship both with the Church and with God, and that I felt I was doing a fine job of teaching my kids to be good Catholics, strong in the faith, but also preparing them for real life and the world we live in [he has a good reasonning] She said we are not supposed to take part in the world, but just exist in it [she is wrong, her interpretation is not in link with the details of the teaching of the catholic church, she is not cloistered nun]

 

[fpt]

The OP never mentioned having a problem with his wife in these areas.

Where did my funny, fun bride go? Where did my sexy, brilliant wife go? I love her so much, I could just cry every day. I want her back. I feel like she’s joined a cult and I don’t know how to get her out. We were fine - really - believe me - we were not leading a sinful life. We were like the other Catholic families at Mass. Now, my wife is on a campaign to take all the fun out of our world, make herself unattractive, chastise me at every turn, and take our kids with her along for the ride. I try hard not to argue with my wife in front of the kids, but when she is trying to wrestle our 9-year-old into a matronly homemade prairie dress, I do put my foot down and get her regular clothes. When she is telling my 12-year-old that showing her knees is a sin** [she is wrong, her moral view is false]**, I have to step in. I am a good dad with good family values, but this is just too much.

She needs to be careful, she needs to be careful, she is on the extremist way, in my humble opinion

 

[fpt]

Hi Russet1,

I am very well educated on my faith, but thank you for the suggestion. My wife is not praying for me to become Catholic because I already am. She is praying for me to adopt a bunch of radical customs and lifestyle changes that were never a part of our marriage bargain. I am definitely in the pew with her every single Sunday worshiping the very same Christ as she is.

I have talked with my wife a lot about this, but she always has the last word with, “Why would you have a problem with our family being closer to God and closer to living His way?” My response is that God does not ask us to do all these things. I have tried to compromise with her (i.e. I have not said a word about her church hair covering even though I dislike it) but I do have to draw a line when it comes to the children being raised this way. It’s just hard because all my objections just seem like I’m being unholy to her. She just accuses me of not taking my role as spiritual leader properly.
This hurts and honestly makes me angry because I do take that job very seriously.

Hi Russet1,

I am very well educated on my faith, but thank you for the suggestion. My wife is not praying for me to become Catholic because I already am. She is praying for me to adopt a bunch of radical customs and lifestyle changes that were never a part of our marriage bargain. I am definitely in the pew with her every single Sunday worshiping the very same Christ as she is.

I have talked with my wife a lot about this, but she always has the last word with, “Why would you have a problem with our family being closer to God and closer to living His way?” This sentence is a manifest sign of wrong acception of the teaching of the Roman catholic church concerning the state of wife, of mother, of couple, of husband and of father. She confuses the state of marriage with the other state of life. Does she want to be a wife and mother or other thing? Does she respect the rights of her husband on her? Does she follow wrong catholic mentalities (heresies and ideologies???)

My response is that God does not ask us to do all these things (you are right, she is wrong). I have tried to compromise with her (i.e. I have not said a word about her church hair covering even though I dislike it) but I do have to draw a line when it comes to the children being raised this way (you have a good thought). It’s just hard because all my objections just seem like I’m being unholy to her. She just accuses me of not taking my role as spiritual leader properly.
This hurts and honestly makes me angry because I do take that job very seriously.