Advised against attending my first latin mass by a seminarian

[victorialauren]

Good morning/ evening everyone ( wherever in the world you are)
This is my first post, which I feel compelled to write due to my being new to the faith ( in the middle of the RCIA at the moment), and having a very small circle of catholic acquaintances- I had no interaction with the catholic community and have no other friends of any real faith.
I decided fairly early on in my journey that I wanted to attend the latin mass, and that has remained my conviction, once I felt comfortable enough (I feel my ignorance very much especially around though I hope to one day count as part of my community, which is a weakness of mine).
I asked the seminarian who has been attached to the parish this past year, for advice on attending latin mass for the ffirst time, a couple of weeks ago, and he counselled me to refrain from attending latin mass until I had expanded my knowledge and foundation in the faith.
I was just wanted to get the perspective of others on this, whatever they may be

God love you and thank you for reading this rather long winded post!

 

[1ke]

and he counselled me to refrain from attenting latin mass untill mt

Until what? Your sentence doesn’t make sense.

Maybe he is counseling you not to attend Latin mass until you are more familiar with the liturgy???

 

[BartholomewB]

The OP subsequently edited her post, I think. It makes sense now.

What doesn’t make sense, at least to me, is the seminarian’s advice. I can think of no valid reason why anybody should avoid attending the Latin Mass.

 

[victorialauren]

I am sure that was his main line of reasoning, which is completely sound, though I will add that of course I have taken the time to study and would never have presumed to rock up without the capacity to respect and join in the worship

 

[Traddy1962]

I don’t understand why he might recommend this to you, I am sure it is well intentioned though.
If you would like to attend a Latin mass, then you should. There is nothing wrong with it, except you will more than likely be confused at first depending on your understanding of it. The fist time you attend one, it is best to just put the literature down, sit back, don’t think too hard, and just soak it in. You aren’t going to understand everything, and that is fine. However, If you pay a little bit of attention You will know where you are in the mass based on the actions going on. TLM is a beautiful treasure within the church, one that majority of the Saints grew in holiness through and celebrated everyday.

 

[victorialauren]

accidentally posted prior to completing my short essay

 

[1ke]

I am sure that was his main line of reasoning,

Well, I can understand it I guess. I went to a Latin ordinary form mass and it certainly helped that I was familiar with the liturgy in English.

But the extraordinary form mass is very different from the ordinary form, so I’m not sure that would really make a difference.

If there is a Latin Mass in your area then I don’t see why you couldn’t go and observe and worship.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I asked the seminarian who has been attached to the parish this past year, for advice on attending latin mass for the ffirst time, a couple of weeks ago, and he counselled me to refrain from attending latin mass until I had expanded my knowledge and foundation in the faith.

I can think of several reasons he’d say this:

• He wants to make sure that you understand what is going on in the Mass before you go off to a Latin Mass that is not going to be as clear to a brand new Catholic as the OF Mass.
• He wants to make sure that you do not get led into thinking that the Latin Mass aka the “EF” Mass is somehow “objectively superior” to the OF Mass. The Church does not teach that one form of the Mass is superior to or better than the other form, but some people have a strong personal opinion that they will pass on to a catechumen or new Catholic as if it were fact. That can lead to confusion or leading the new person astray.
• He thinks the OF Mass is a better way for catechumens to learn about Mass at this stage because it is in the language for the country rather than in Latin, the congregation hears more of the prayers and responds/ participates more, the RCIA will likely be focusing on the OF Mass when it talks about Mass, and it’s also the Mass in common use so catechumens need to know about it.

OR (and this has to be said)

• He may just have a personal bias against Latin Mass. Maybe he had a bad experience with someone who went to Latin Mass in the past.

Having said all that, it’s one seminarian’s opinion.

I personally don’t see anything wrong with experiencing a Latin Mass as long as you’re not going to adopt the opinion that it’s somehow holier, “superior to”, etc than the OF Mass, or that the Church was wrong to adopt the OF, or take up some position rejecting the Pope and Vatican II. There is nothing in the Latin Mass itself that will harm you. At worst, you simply won’t hear a lot of what’s going on, and might not understand all of what’s going on.

If you do decide to attend some Latin Masses, you should also attend OF Masses so that you will have the knowledge of them too and can be on the same page with your RCIA group.

 

[CTBcin]

Well, here’s some advice from another seminarian: feel free to go. If you like it, great! If not, that’s fine as well.

 

[ahs]

[H]e counselled me to refrain from attending latin mass until I had expanded my knowledge and foundation in the faith.

I don’t see a reason for that. At the very least, it’s a good opportunity to see the Mass from a new perspective. I think you should give it a go.

 

[victorialauren]

He made a point of adding that the iternet allows exposure to those whose arguments are not correct according to the teachings of the church, and that it may seem appealing to individuals who are not knowledgable enough to discern those inconsistencies.
I realise experience is the best teacher, however I am very conscious of the source of any resources I expose myself to in learning the faith. The defining moment which solidified my conviction that the one true church is the Catholic Church, was appreciating only one christian church teaches from divine revelation, the ultimate authority
That speaks to your second point I believe, and is certainly a valid concern in general

 

[Fuerza]

That’s one person, and he’s entitled to his opinion. That said, feel free to go and experience the EF. Try to go to a High Mass or a Missa Cantata for the first time if you can. The Low Mass is a little more confusing for a raw beginner, as it’s mostly prayed inaudibly by the priest, though even then you’ll eventually catch on. As someone already said, the first few times just sit back and take it all in. Don’t worry about following along in the missal. You won’t understand everything that’s going on, or even most of it. That’s perfectly OK. After a few trips you can start following in the missal, which is when you’ll learn how to identify where the priest is by his hand gestures. Of course the consecration is performed in almost total silence, with the bells rung at the precise moment, so that’s pretty easy to tell. Also, sit in the back and watch what other people do so you’ll know when to sit, stand and kneel.

If you want to have a better understanding of what’s going on before you go, check out sanctamissa.org. It’s a wealth of information on the TLM, including the differences between High, Sung and Low Masses, and even has a tutorial designed for priests. There are also tons of EF videos on youtube. Again though, don’t make it overly academic at first. Just experience and enjoy.

 

[neophyte]

Tis_Bearself said it well, as usual.

I’ve only been to an EF mass once, a few years after I entered the Church. “How different can it be?”, I asked myself. Well, it was very different, there were long intervals during which I had absolutely no clue where we were, and I found it hugely distracting. I’d have been much better off not worrying about that, and just basking in the presence of God.

In fact, it was even less familiar than the time I attended a Chaldean Rite mass (which is in Aramaic) - that one was comparatively easy.

 

[IanM]

I recommend that you take a look at the more traditionalist Catholic publishers (the older TAN books that can be found at online second-hand booksellers’ websites, Baronius Press, Angelus Press, et al ), find titles that appeal to you, and read them. Get yourself a Douay-Rheims Bible and a copy of the Baltimore Catechism.

BALTIMORE CATECHISM : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

I second this. I would always recommend purchasing a hard copy book over an electric version, however Baronius Press and Angelus Press both produce first class editions, but they can be a little pricey. Whilst saving to buy hard copies, might I suggest that you consider downloading this very good (free) edition of the Baltimore Catechism and utilise the site : Douay-Rheims Bible with Challoner's notes
which gives you access to the Latin Vulgate alongside the English Douay- Rheims and the English Knox version (which is not widely known, but is very “readable” and my personal favorite)
This too is a fantastic resource for free downloadable hard to find Catholic literature:
Free Traditional Catholic Books II - Catholic Tradition - Traditional Catholic Reading | Traditional Catholic

 

[Peeps]

He made a point of adding that the iternet allows exposure to those whose arguments are not correct according to the teachings of the church, and that it may seem appealing to individuals who are not knowledgable enough to discern those inconsistencies.

It seems to me that the wise seminarian has made an excellent statement. It is good to concentrate on learning the Catholic faith in your own language before spending a lot of time seeking Catholic “experiences.”

Surely my cradle Catholic friends recognize a symptom of the Evangelical Protestant mindset when someone seeks out “experiences” , as evidenced by hopping from church to church, Bible study to Bible study, small group to small group–hoping to “discover REAL Christianity.”

My husband and are converts to Catholicism from Evangelical Protestantism (2004, and we are both 62 years old this year!) . We were Evangelicals of Evangelicals–super Evangelicals! The longest we were in any one church was ten years. We were always searching, seeking more “spiritual” feelings, experiences, studies, pastors, etc., rather than just settling into our dear church.

Have you ever heard of the Fact, Faith, Feeling train?

It’s a very good analogy and Catholics would do well do ponder it. The idea is that it is FACT that is the Engine that pulls the train along, and it is FAITH that is the “fuel” that keeps the engine going. FEELINGS are the caboose–not necessary, but nice to have if they are there.

At this point in her life journey towards heaven, the OP needs the FACTS more than she needs “feelings.” She needs to learn what the Catholic faith is, and where it came from, how the Bible points to Catholicism (not Protestantism), the layout of the Catechism and what it teaches, various elementary apologetics that will help the OP deal with the objections of well-meaning friends and relatives, the differences between dogma, doctrine, and discipline, the structure of the Mass (OF and EF if possible, as they are quite different, and my husband and I were fortunate enough to be part of an RCIA class that taught the similarities and differences), a survey of the saints, especially St. Mary, and their place in the Church (not to be worshipped!), the richness of Catholic prayers (e.g., the Rosary and other chaplets)–so much to learn, and that’s what RCIA should be teaching!

She won’t get all this in any Mass, but especially in an EF Mass in Latin!

If she doesn’t learn the FACTS, the OP is in danger of going the way of many Catholics (and Protestants)–once the “shine” wears off and the experience becomes routine–she will grow restless and start seeking out the “next” experience.

The seminarian was very wise, and has probably seen this happen before.

One possibility that the OP might want to consider is that if the parish in her area that offers the EF of the Mass is in communion with Rome and is a thriving parish, perhaps the OP would like to start attending RCIA at that parish, and at the same time attending the EF of the Mass. Hopefully their RCIA is equal or perhaps even better than her current RCIA program.

 

[Emeraldlady]

He made a point of adding that the iternet allows exposure to those whose arguments are not correct according to the teachings of the church, and that it may seem appealing to individuals who are not knowledgable enough to discern those inconsistencies.

I wondered about that too. Some TLM communities teeter on the brink of sedavacantism. Matt Fradd who travels the world talking to TLM communities made a negative observation about the TLM in the area I live in unfortunately.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I am endlessly amazed by how many folks post here about clergy or laypersons who seem to oppose the Extraordinary Form.

Around here, it is not celebrated for two reasons

1. Trained priests & servers are very few.
2. Lack of something physical, for instance an Altar that is in a position that would not be conductive to ad orientem.

I know a good number of priests in my diocese, in conversation the general feeling is that the EF would be welcomed in their pairish if not for these things. They will let you know where it can be found in the Diocese if you wish to make the trip.

If you wish to attend an EF Mass, attend an EF Mass. You might want to watch one online first, or go and sit near the back, follow what the people in front of you do.

Edit to add: I’d also encourage you to attend Mass in other languages, your Diocese website will be helpful finding Masses in Spanish or Korean or Vietnamese, etc.

 

[OldCAFMember]

Sorry, but it sounds like the seminarian feels threatened by the TLM. Or, more likely, he’s repeating the advice from his seminary instructors, who are more likely to dislike the old rite.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Not at all!

Better for a new convert to understand the Mass before attending a TLM.

Why is that bad advice ?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I’ve only been to an EF mass once, a few years after I entered the Church. “How different can it be?”, I asked myself. Well, it was very different, there were long intervals during which I had absolutely no clue where we were, and I found it hugely distracting. I’d have been much better off not worrying about that, and just basking in the presence of God.

My first TLM experience, 33 years ago, SSPX chapel, was identical to yours. I had attended the Novus Ordo Latin Mass several times, and I thought it would be the same, you just follow along, bilingual missal, no problem. I came out and said to myself “that was a Mass?”. I was utterly clueless. Yet I went back, and I kept going back. It all fell into place. Give it time. Let grace flow. I would say it takes a month or two for it to feel “natural”. (And, yes, I know that isn’t terribly encouraging to someone who wants to go one time and “give it a try”, but how many things are there about the Faith that just fall into place instantly, in a flash? Catholicism doesn’t work like that.)

I second this. I would always recommend purchasing a hard copy book over an electric version, however Baronius Press and Angelus Press both produce first class editions, but they can be a little pricey.

There are pros and cons both to print and electronic media. Print media is bulky and, unless you get really good quality copies, it yellows. I have books from college that are unusable because, quite frankly, they stink. Electronic media takes up no space at all, but they can be wiped out instantly — power surge, accidentally getting a strong magnet near the computer, disk failure, and yes, EMP (I am seriously considering fashioning a Faraday cage or box for my backups and extra computers, I’ve got several.). The best thing to do, is to read them, take them to heart, and put them in your mind and soul.

Around here, it is not celebrated for two reasons

1. Trained priests & servers are very few.
2. Lack of something physical, for instance an Altar that is in a position that would not be conductive to ad orientem.

Almost any altar can be “retrofitted”, temporarily or permanently, to permit ad orientem. It might be a little cramped or awkward, but I’ve seen it done.

Not at all!

Better for a new convert to understand the Mass before attending a TLM.

Why is that bad advice ?

You can do both at the same time. Get a good book that explains the Mass, use a bilingual missal (most handmissals are bilingual), and watch videos of the TLM.