Advised against attending my first latin mass by a seminarian

[Tis_Bearself]

Yeah, I’d say going to the Mass is fine. Hanging out in so-called Catholic communities on the Internet is something else again. It’s not just a sede or trad problem either. There are other communities online where you might get the impression it doesn’t matter if you’re Protestant or Catholic, and Catholics can order their pastor around, and gay marriage is just great. All of which are not in accordance with the Church.

 

[Fuerza]

You’re attaching a Protestant meaning to “experience” that is not intended here, and you should understand that cradle Catholics don’t think in those terms. I personally don’t appreciate your insinuation.

To address the rest of your post, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a new convert’s attending the EF, and the purpose of Mass is not to “get something” out of it. The EF was the only Mass that the majority of Catholics, including new converts, would have known for a significant percentage of the history of the Church, and they did just fine.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

Our RCIA group was taken to a Latin mass as a part of our instruction.

I can’t see why you should avoid it unless you are thinking of going to an illicit TLM.

 

[redal]

I humbly submit that your seminarian was just plain wrong.

But, I humbly submit he was not wrong, in that he was asked for advice not for a canonical directive.

When asking for advice, it should be noted that what is received is an opinionated statement, and not an authoritative one.

The OP should attend if they want to, or not attend if that is their wish…Asking others here was probably a good approach, because now they have more opinions.

But clearly, the seminarians advice is not “just plain wrong” any more than any advice any of us give here is spot on.

 

[Socrates92]

I personally don’t see anything wrong with experiencing a Latin Mass as long as you’re not going to adopt the opinion that it’s somehow holier, “superior to”, etc than the OF Mass, or that the Church was wrong to adopt the OF, or take up some position rejecting the Pope and Vatican II.

Just to be clear, believing that the Church made a mistake in adopting the Novus Ordo does not logically lead to a rejection of the Church, or even of the Pope. I’m not sure if you were intending to imply that it did. Holding that the EF is superior is not the same thing as claiming that the Novus Ordo is invalid or illicit.

 

[tafan2]

Because it does not seem necessary.

I think the seminarian’s attitude about the EF was betrayed by the statement

that it may seem appealing to individuals who are not knowledgable enough to discern those inconsistencies.

As if it would be a bad thing if it was appealing.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The OP is a new convert just learning the NO in the vernacular.

Give it time, if the call to attend the TLM comes, then learn the Latin responses.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Surely my cradle Catholic friends recognize a symptom of the Evangelical Protestant mindset when someone seeks out “experiences” , as evidenced by hopping from church to church, Bible study to Bible study, small group to small group

As a cradle Catholic who enjoys experiencing different churches, different types of Mass and Liturgy, and different prayer and study groups, mostly as a way of keeping my prayer life interesting and broadening my perspective, I would gently suggest that you not jump to the conclusion that people seeking different Catholic experiences are sensation-seekers or are looking for which one is the REAL one. I’m well aware that all the Catholic churches and parishes are equally “real” as long as they’re in communion with Rome.

There are 23 Eastern Catholic churches, and even within the Roman Rite there are parishes and Masses that are more modernist, others that are more traditionalist, still others that are charismatic, and still others that are heavily influenced by the cultural traditions of a particular country, etc. They are all Catholic and I am allowed to participate in all of these things. It should not be presented as always being a negative thing. One reason I church hop is because a very holy priest from Africa pointed out to me that I didn’t need to go on pilgrimage to see beautiful churches in Europe when we had beautiful churches sitting ignored in our own diocese.

I’m sure there are some people out there who do as you say and are rushing from one thing to the next looking for excitement or “feels”, but it’s unfair to put everybody in that bin.

You mention saying the Rosary. I say lots of Rosaries. Do you think I say them the same way every time? The basics (Our Fathers, Hail Marys, the Creed, holy mystery meditations) are the same, but there are many variations on how to say a Rosary and many settings in which you can say one. Again, this provides new perspectives and keeps one from becoming bored with the same ol’ thing all the time.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Just to be clear, believing that the Church made a mistake in adopting the Novus Ordo does not logically lead to a rejection of the Church, or even of the Pope. I’m not sure if you were intending to imply that it did. Holding that the EF is superior is not the same thing as claiming that the Novus Ordo is invalid or illicit.

You are correct that one does not have to be a full sedevacantist in order to think that the Church should not have adopted the OF. However, this person is a catechumen. It’s definitely the wrong foot for a catechumen or a brand new Catholic to take a negative view of V2 changes right off the bat. For one thing, they don’t yet have the breadth/ depth of knowledge to know where to stop with those views and are more prone to believe extreme things they are told. After one has gotten on a firm footing in the faith, then one might be able to question some of the V2 changes without putting their faith at risk or becoming confused.

 

[LateranBasilica]

I asked the seminarian who has been attached to the parish this past year, for advice on attending latin mass for the ffirst time, a couple of weeks ago, and he counselled me to refrain from attending latin mass until I had expanded my knowledge and foundation in the faith.
I was just wanted to get the perspective of others on this, whatever they may be

Your Seminarian knows you better then we internet strangers. In some ways I agree with him. Get to know the Mass, understand what is happening at each point in the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
It can be quite confusing landing at an EF Mass, is it a High Mass, Low Mass, sung? Do the organisers of the Mass give out booklets explaining each step?
Be able to discern the Extraordinary Form Mass as offered by a group thoroughly in accord with the Holy See, as compared to one that is not. This is quite important during the formation of a Catholic.
I would watch a few youtubes from Bishop Barron. and from Fr Ripperger on the Mass. Fr Ripperger also talks of a few traps that some EF Mass attendees are beginning to fall into.
Lastly there is a wonderful book called The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass explained. It was written in the decades before 1712 by a Priest of the Capuchin Order.

When you find an Extraordinary Form Mass to attend, perhaps start with Low Mass, as it is a little easier to understand. Move onto High Mass in time.

I pray for your continuing Catholic Formation and entry into the Church.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Awesome! When will you be ordained?

 

[Peeps]

To address the rest of your post, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a new convert’s attending the EF, and the purpose of Mass is not to “get something” out of it. The EF was the only Mass that the majority of Catholics, including new converts, would have known for a significant percentage of the history of the Church, and they did just fine.

This is what I hear you saying–it’s OK to be ignorant of our faith as long as you serve at Mass.

It’s no wonder Catholics are such easy pickin’s for Evangelical Protestants. A few Bible verses that appear to refute Catholicism (the way Evangelicals understand Catholicism), a couple of professional-sounding Praise and Worship ditties, a lot of handshaking and “welcome!” and a lot of invites to Bible studies and other fellowship activities–and so many Catholics walk away from the faith that was “just fine” for so many centuries.

But remember–for many of those centuries, there were no Evangelical Protestants walking around with open Bibles and a lot of training in “witnessing” to Catholics.

I stand by what I said–the OP should make sure that they are thoroughly educated about Catholicism. If they wish to visit the EF of the Mass, that’s just fine. I suggesting taking along a great little book–A Beginner’s Guide to the Traditional Latin Mass by Derya Little, published by Ang;elico Press. It is really helpful to me.

 

[Fuerza]

Who said it’s OK to be ignorant? What does attending the EF have to do with knowledge of the faith, and why do you assume that one can’t learn the faith through the EF? I’m sorry but your post appears condescending and judgmental.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

This is what I hear you saying–it’s OK to be ignorant of our faith as long as you serve at Mass.

How did you come to that conclusion, that that’s what he was saying in his post?

When my father converted in the early 1960s, he went to EF Mass. When my husband’s uncle converted in the early 1960s, he went to EF Mass. That’s all there was then. Are you saying every convert from before the era of the OF Mass was “ignorant of our faith” because they attended EF Mass? That does not make sense. Nor does your whole paragraph about Catholics being easy pickins. My father had been to Baptist sunday school as a child by the way, he wasn’t exactly ignorant of evangelicals in the area of the country where he lived.

I am not sure whether to feel insulted by your post or just flabbergasted because I don’t understand your reasoning, your conclusion, or just why you would even say this. The two men I mentioned above were Catholics for decades right up till they died. They prayed, attended Mass, stayed married to the same ladies, and were buried in the Church. They weren’t ignorant of their faith.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

This is what I hear you saying–it’s OK to be ignorant of our faith as long as you serve at Mass.

Really?! I didn’t read it that way at all.

 

[CTBcin]

Awesome! When will you be ordained?

In roughly ~5 years, God willing.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Way to go, TB!

 

[PetraG]

Your Seminarian knows you better then we internet strangers.

I’d agree with this. If someone advising you in RCIA confuses you even after you ask for a clarification, ask the pastor about it. Generally speaking, I’d do whatever the pastor advises at least until after RCIA, if only out of obedience. As LateranBasilica points out, they know things about you and the nearest local TLM that we cannot know from here. Besides, even if the advice is the same, it is only a matter of months, and obedience is a very traditional value. The TLM will still be there when May rolls around.

 

[Peeps]

Well, everyone, maybe I am reading too much into this based on what happens all too often in my part of the U.S. (Northern Illinois) and in my circle of acquaintances. “Church-hopping” and “experiential Christianity” is very common here in Northern Illinois. I’ve heard sermons and read articles about this, as well as observing it often.

But I’m surprised by all the condemnation in this thread. If you read all of my posts, I did say that the it’s OK for the OP to go ahead and visit Latin Mass as long as it is in communion with Rome. Also, if you read my posts, you will see that I suggested that the OP consider attending RCIA in the “Latin Mass parish” (again, as long as it is in communion with Rome). I’m not anti-Latin Mass!

If you have read other posts in the past from Peeps, you will see that I play organ at our local Latin Mass parish (which has held steady at around 400 attendees for over 20 years now), and I also was the accompanist at the local independent “traditional” Catholic school that teaches Latin from K through 12th grade and advocates the Latin Mass for its students. Again, I’m not anti-Latin Mass!

And I suggested an excellent book that is extremely helpful (best I’ve seen to date) in understanding the Latin Mass (A Beginner’s Guide to the Traditional Latin Mass by Derya Little, published by Angelico Press).

It does seem to me that the slightest challenge to Catholics who love the Latin Mass seems to raise their hackles. Not liking that.

I just think the OP would be doing no wrong and practicing humility and obedience to submit to someone who has a lot more knowledge and possibly experience, depending on their life and seminary training, as well as mentoring from the priests that they are taught by.

There is a reason that the seminarian advised the OP as he did, and I don’t think everyone should assume it’s because he’s a Latin Mass hater. He’s probably seen or heard priests talk about situations with their local Latin Mass parish that didn’t have a positive outcome, and he’s trying to make sure the OP is well-grounded in their faith–not a bad thing at all whether the catechumen is attending OF or EF of the Mass.

I’ve mentioned before that in the Evangelical Protestant churches that I attended for the first 47 years of my life, at least 25% of the members and attendees were ex-Catholic, so apparently the Latin Mass wasn’t holding onto everyone. It would be a shame for the OP to end up as one of the 25%.

I don’t think we can compare church attendance and loyalty today with the past. Almost all churches are losing members, and according to various surveys, a majority of Americans do not attend any church or practice any organized religion and are not really open to doing so. This would have been unthinkable 50 years ago for most Americans! Church was simply a bigger part of American life back then.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

There is a reason that the seminarian advised the OP as he did, and I don’t think everyone should assume it’s because he’s a Latin Mass hater.

If you read my original post to the OP upthread, I offered four possible reasons why the seminarian might have so advised her, and three of them had nothing to do with him being a “Latin Mass hater”.

It is fine for you to say that in your opinion, maybe OP should defer to the seminarian who is more educated about the faith. I personally don’t agree, but I see that as a valid opinion.

The problem was where you began to imply that a new Catholic who chose to attend Latin Mass over the advice of some seminarian was going to end up ignorant of the faith and unable to defend it against evangelicals, or that she was going to lose the faith due to attending a Latin Mass.

As for people “backintheday” leaving the Catholic Church, there are a huge variety of reasons why people left and it isn’t really relevant to this thread which is talking about a person who is trying to enter the Church, not leave it. In this day and age, converts who are really into Latin Mass and church history and such tend to be very committed to Catholicism.

I’ll leave it at that.