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That_one_guy
Guest
:yup:
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:yup:
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cathybramble
Guest
i just wanted to add - scripturally, man did not begin to consume animals as food until after the flood (well it wiped out most of the plant life) - but for all the time between adam’s creation and noah’s ark, for all i can read there, nothing changed in man’s diet.
Gen 1:29 - “And God said: Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your meat.”
it does seem to me that God did create us and intend us to be vegans, at least in the beginning.
just sayin.
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cathybramble
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That_one_guy
Guest
I just posted this in another forum I started in the moralities section entitled “The morality of veganism and the stewardship of creation”
Genesis 9, the text often cited as justification for eating animals, is recognized by most theologians as either a very temporary post-flood concession (all vegetation had been destroyed) or as a concession to human sinfulness (Genesis 9 is also used to justify slavery). St. Jerome wrote: “As to the argument that in God’s second blessing (Gen 9:3), permission was given to eat flesh–a permission not given in the first blessing (Gen 1:29)–let him know that just as permission to put away a wife was, according to the words of the Savior, not given from the beginning, but was granted to the human race by Moses because of the hardness of our hearts (Mt 19), so also in like manner the eating of flesh was unknown until the Flood …”
Just a little backup,…
Genesis 9, the text often cited as justification for eating animals, is recognized by most theologians as either a very temporary post-flood concession (all vegetation had been destroyed) or as a concession to human sinfulness (Genesis 9 is also used to justify slavery). St. Jerome wrote: “As to the argument that in God’s second blessing (Gen 9:3), permission was given to eat flesh–a permission not given in the first blessing (Gen 1:29)–let him know that just as permission to put away a wife was, according to the words of the Savior, not given from the beginning, but was granted to the human race by Moses because of the hardness of our hearts (Mt 19), so also in like manner the eating of flesh was unknown until the Flood …”
Just a little backup,…
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RosalieM
Guest
I like not eating God’s beloved creatures. 
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That_one_guy
Guest
I like not eating God’s beloved creatures.
Ditto.
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cathybramble
Guest
yep it’s a spiritual thing for me too - and liberating… because when you don’t view an animal as food, or clothing, or any other thing than a living thing that God created, we are free to love them more in the way that God does and enjoy them for their beauty and wonder.I like not eating God’s beloved creatures.
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Fidelia
Guest
Absolutely.
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That_one_guy
Guest
The closest thing to meat I want to eat is the Body of Christ.Which He called bread.So, I guess even Communion is vegan.
hmmm…
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mizznicole
Guest
Yes, but don’t forget that He is the Lamb of God.
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That_one_guy
Guest
:knight2: touche!It was a willing sacrifice. So, it is ethical!
The next turkey that walks up to the chopping block and says ,“Thy will be done…”
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DL82
Guest
Likewise, I do very occasionally eat meat, when it’s put in front of me, to avoid offending against charity, for example when I go home to my parents at Christmas. I don’t mind eating meat at Christmas and Easter and other major feasts, because that’s when people would traditionally have slaughtered an animal for a feast. I don’t have a moral problem with killing an animal for a feast, but there should be a very good reason.
If you look at the old testament, and go beyond the legalistic prescriptions of the Jewish law, what underpins that law is a desire to give thanks to God for the gift of food, and to make the killing of animals for food rare and connected to festivals of the Lord. Those prohibitions go back beyond the law of Moses to the laws given to Noah for all mankind, and seem to be supported by the Apostles in the Book of Acts when advising the people to abstain from anything strangled and from blood.
My main reason for not eating meat at any other time is the damage it does to the environment. The fact is that there would be far more food to go around if Western companies weren’t buying up grain from Africa, grain which could be used to feed people, in order to feed it to increasing herds of cows and pigs and battery chickens so that people in Europe and America can have cheap, low-quality meat for breakfast, lunch and dinner. All the world’s cows produce as much greenhouse gas as all the world’s cars, and rainforests are being cut down to make way for cattle grazing.
I abstain from meat not out of love for animals but out of love for people.
Am thinking of changing to a raw vegan diet, also out of love for people, but that’s more of a penitential thing, and that’s another story.
EDIT: I’ve also found that since I’ve stopped eating meat, I think much more about what I’m eating, which makes it easier to fast, easier to eat healthily, and easier to cook really good food.
If you look at the old testament, and go beyond the legalistic prescriptions of the Jewish law, what underpins that law is a desire to give thanks to God for the gift of food, and to make the killing of animals for food rare and connected to festivals of the Lord. Those prohibitions go back beyond the law of Moses to the laws given to Noah for all mankind, and seem to be supported by the Apostles in the Book of Acts when advising the people to abstain from anything strangled and from blood.
My main reason for not eating meat at any other time is the damage it does to the environment. The fact is that there would be far more food to go around if Western companies weren’t buying up grain from Africa, grain which could be used to feed people, in order to feed it to increasing herds of cows and pigs and battery chickens so that people in Europe and America can have cheap, low-quality meat for breakfast, lunch and dinner. All the world’s cows produce as much greenhouse gas as all the world’s cars, and rainforests are being cut down to make way for cattle grazing.
I abstain from meat not out of love for animals but out of love for people.
Am thinking of changing to a raw vegan diet, also out of love for people, but that’s more of a penitential thing, and that’s another story.
EDIT: I’ve also found that since I’ve stopped eating meat, I think much more about what I’m eating, which makes it easier to fast, easier to eat healthily, and easier to cook really good food.
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manualman
Guest
I seem to recall Adam’s children herding sheep…
I suppose they went to all that trouble just for the wool? Methinks not.
I suppose they went to all that trouble just for the wool? Methinks not.
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That_one_guy
Guest
So,what is your point?
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
I would be a vegetarian, if my wife didn’t have a problem eating wheat, dairy, and nuts.
Eliminate those from your diet along with meat, and your life style wouldn’t be worth living.
Anyway, I just finished an audio book about a month ago, called,
“The Omnivore’s Dilemma,” by Michael Pollan. Its a must read, for both vegetarians and omnivores and the information on industrial farming, was a wake up call for me, on looking to change the way I buy food.
That being said, the idea that a vegetarian diet is more healthy, is a myth. When studies have been done, between vegetarians and meat eaters, its usually between vegetarians who are knowledgeable about their diets, and meat eaters who are either ignorant, or just don’t care.
Dr Atkins pretty much debunked the myth on saturated fat, and now doctors are less concerned about saturated fats as they are on simple carbohydrates and trans fats.
Anyway, here’s an article that debunks the myth that a vegetarian diet is more healthy;
westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtvegetarianism.html
Jim
Eliminate those from your diet along with meat, and your life style wouldn’t be worth living.
Anyway, I just finished an audio book about a month ago, called,
“The Omnivore’s Dilemma,” by Michael Pollan. Its a must read, for both vegetarians and omnivores and the information on industrial farming, was a wake up call for me, on looking to change the way I buy food.
That being said, the idea that a vegetarian diet is more healthy, is a myth. When studies have been done, between vegetarians and meat eaters, its usually between vegetarians who are knowledgeable about their diets, and meat eaters who are either ignorant, or just don’t care.
Dr Atkins pretty much debunked the myth on saturated fat, and now doctors are less concerned about saturated fats as they are on simple carbohydrates and trans fats.
Anyway, here’s an article that debunks the myth that a vegetarian diet is more healthy;
westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtvegetarianism.html
Jim
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That_one_guy
Guest
I have perused your link.I don’t believe it.I stand as firm in my dietary beliefs as I do in my Catholic Faith.I would be a vegetarian, if my wife didn’t have a problem eating wheat, dairy, and nuts.
Eliminate those from your diet along with meat, and your life style wouldn’t be worth living.
Anyway, I just finished an audio book about a month ago, called,
“The Omnivore’s Dilemma,” by Michael Pollan. Its a must read, for both vegetarians and omnivores and the information on industrial farming, was a wake up call for me, on looking to change the way I buy food.
That being said, the idea that a vegetarian diet is more healthy, is a myth. When studies have been done, between vegetarians and meat eaters, its usually between vegetarians who are knowledgeable about their diets, and meat eaters who are either ignorant, or just don’t care.
Dr Atkins pretty much debunked the myth on saturated fat, and now doctors are less concerned about saturated fats as they are on simple carbohydrates and trans fats.
Anyway, here’s an article that debunks the myth that a vegetarian diet is more healthy;
westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtvegetarianism.html
Jim
You may eat what you like,"…with thanks giving."
It is a spiritual pursuit for me and many others who have responded to this thread.I am sure your post is in an honest and scholarly spirit.And I respect your position.
Anything when used incorrectly or to excess can be detrimental to ones health.Many people have dietary restrictions for various reasons.And given enough time and resources it is fairly simple to de-bunk anyones ideas.
There are plenty of links to counter your links.But, I won’t post them.It is a pedantic exercise, at best.
But, thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
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RosalieM
Guest
Excuse me because this is off the top of my head and I can’t reference exactly where to find it. There is something in scripture about people who ate only vegetables and were healthier than the ones who ate meat. I think they were in prison.
Sorry, I can’t for the life of me give the exact reference. Perhaps someone else knows?
That notwithstanding, there is a wealth of information out there about how much healthier it is to avoid meat. If you can’t avoid it, cut down. The Chinese use meat in small amounts, like a condiment, in their food.
Sorry, I can’t for the life of me give the exact reference. Perhaps someone else knows?
That notwithstanding, there is a wealth of information out there about how much healthier it is to avoid meat. If you can’t avoid it, cut down. The Chinese use meat in small amounts, like a condiment, in their food.
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Fidelia
Guest
Eating meat is not inherently unhealthy, but it should not be eaten as often as most eat it (especially considering how unhealthy it is coming from factory farming, where animals are raised in horrible conditions and fed all kinds of drugs and hormones). And it should not constitute the majority of the diet. Our bodies are designed for a predominantly plant-based diet (as has already been pointed out in this thread.
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cathybramble
Guest
what jumps out at me from that article is that this (doctor?) send the young couple home with a buttload of guilt over their diet (there are many reasons for early miscarriage that are beyond the control of the mother)… assumed that the respiratory infections are caused by her diet also (never heard of this, although i do know that dairy contributes to some respiratory problems), and dietary supplements and advice… all based on nothing more than an interview.I would be a vegetarian, if my wife didn’t have a problem eating wheat, dairy, and nuts.
Eliminate those from your diet along with meat, and your life style wouldn’t be worth living.
Anyway, I just finished an audio book about a month ago, called,
“The Omnivore’s Dilemma,” by Michael Pollan. Its a must read, for both vegetarians and omnivores and the information on industrial farming, was a wake up call for me, on looking to change the way I buy food.
That being said, the idea that a vegetarian diet is more healthy, is a myth. When studies have been done, between vegetarians and meat eaters, its usually between vegetarians who are knowledgeable about their diets, and meat eaters who are either ignorant, or just don’t care.
Dr Atkins pretty much debunked the myth on saturated fat, and now doctors are less concerned about saturated fats as they are on simple carbohydrates and trans fats.
Anyway, here’s an article that debunks the myth that a vegetarian diet is more healthy;
westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtvegetarianism.html
Jim
nowhere mentioning any actual tests or exams to determine if she had any deficiencies or other factors.vitamin A is one of those that can be toxic if taking too much - it is disturbing that this person advised taking supplements without first determining if there was a deficiency. vegans and vegetarians actually don’t have trouble getting enough vitamin A, as long as they are eating carrots and leafy greens.
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That_one_guy
Guest
I perceive that there are people who seem to feel threatened somehow by all this vegetarian/vegan stuff.I do not propose to force my ideas on anyone.I am here seeking support from like minded and sympathetic persons.I appreciate everyones (name removed by moderator)ut.But those of you who feel you have to correct my diet or are just being antagonistic,…wellhere’s what the bible says…
Romans 14
13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way. 14 I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19 So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another. 20 Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense. 21 It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles. 22 The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.
Romans 14
13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way. 14 I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19 So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another. 20 Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense. 21 It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles. 22 The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.
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