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That_one_guy
Guest
Hi, Cathy!!
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cathybramble
Guest
it was daniel - he asked the king for only vegetables to eat and water to drink. at the end of 10 days, they compared him with the men who had eaten the kings food, and found daniel et al to be healthier.Excuse me because this is off the top of my head and I canāt reference exactly where to find it. There is something in scripture about people who ate only vegetables and were healthier than the ones who ate meat. I think they were in prison.
Sorry, I canāt for the life of me give the exact reference. Perhaps someone else knows?
That notwithstanding, there is a wealth of information out there about how much healthier it is to avoid meat. If you canāt avoid it, cut down. The Chinese use meat in small amounts, like a condiment, in their food.
maybe thatās why the lions didnāt eat him too
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cathybramble
Guest
:kiss4you:Hi, Cathy!!
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Please donāt misunderstand me.
I donāt begrudge anyone who lives on a vegetarian diet. Like I said, if not for my wifeās inability to eat the foods that make a vegetarian diet suitable to my French palate, I would give it a try. But it would be more philosophical, for the animalās well-being than for the alleged health benefits.
I posted the link to the Weston Price page, to show that the idea that a vegetarian diet is healthier, is a myth. You can accept the facts in the article or not. There are other articles at the sight, that are very informative.
As far as health, try living with the Eskimos on a vegetarian diet and see how healthy you end up after a few days.
In fact, Dr Weston Price did live with the Eskimos, which began his research into diets and how the human body processes food.
Heck, try living in New England, back in the 19th century as a vegetarian, and youād be sick. Louisa May Alcott, author of āLittle Women,ā wrote about her fatherās insistence that they live a vegetarian lifestyle. She wrote about how they were often sick, and when the father was away, her mother would rush out to purchase meat. Often, they would recover their health while their father was away. Of course we have better knowledge about nutrition than they did then, but the point is that, for that period, eating meat was healthier.
Anyway, my attraction towards a vegetarian diet, is more in line with my connection to the life of animals. Iām growing soft in my old age. Also, the industrial farming techniques, are disturbing.
Again, I canāt recommend the book āThe Omnivoreās Diet,ā more. The author not only looks at the average American diet, but he goes out into the agriculture business, to study where our food comes from. The industrial farming techniques are disturbing and are controlled by a small number of large corporations. In fact, 80% of all the corn grown in America, is purchased by only three corporations. Everything from farm feed, to cola beverages, come from the corn that the big three control. Also, even if youāre purchasing organic free range chickens eggs, youāll be shocked as to what youāll learn about that industry and how the government has allowed the industry to deceive us.
The author, Michael Pollan, also tries a vegetarian diet, as well as a hunter gather diet.
The bottom line, go with what works for you.
Jim
I donāt begrudge anyone who lives on a vegetarian diet. Like I said, if not for my wifeās inability to eat the foods that make a vegetarian diet suitable to my French palate, I would give it a try. But it would be more philosophical, for the animalās well-being than for the alleged health benefits.
I posted the link to the Weston Price page, to show that the idea that a vegetarian diet is healthier, is a myth. You can accept the facts in the article or not. There are other articles at the sight, that are very informative.
As far as health, try living with the Eskimos on a vegetarian diet and see how healthy you end up after a few days.
In fact, Dr Weston Price did live with the Eskimos, which began his research into diets and how the human body processes food.
Heck, try living in New England, back in the 19th century as a vegetarian, and youād be sick. Louisa May Alcott, author of āLittle Women,ā wrote about her fatherās insistence that they live a vegetarian lifestyle. She wrote about how they were often sick, and when the father was away, her mother would rush out to purchase meat. Often, they would recover their health while their father was away. Of course we have better knowledge about nutrition than they did then, but the point is that, for that period, eating meat was healthier.
Anyway, my attraction towards a vegetarian diet, is more in line with my connection to the life of animals. Iām growing soft in my old age. Also, the industrial farming techniques, are disturbing.
Again, I canāt recommend the book āThe Omnivoreās Diet,ā more. The author not only looks at the average American diet, but he goes out into the agriculture business, to study where our food comes from. The industrial farming techniques are disturbing and are controlled by a small number of large corporations. In fact, 80% of all the corn grown in America, is purchased by only three corporations. Everything from farm feed, to cola beverages, come from the corn that the big three control. Also, even if youāre purchasing organic free range chickens eggs, youāll be shocked as to what youāll learn about that industry and how the government has allowed the industry to deceive us.
The author, Michael Pollan, also tries a vegetarian diet, as well as a hunter gather diet.
The bottom line, go with what works for you.
Jim
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That_one_guy
Guest
Youāre cool with me, bro!
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cathybramble
Guest
i understand that some people in the world do have different nutritional needs - eskimos, inuits, and others in very harsh climates have adapted to where they live. so they have to eat what sustains them. i also know people who could not go veggie because of other food allergies - someone who is allergic to wheat, soy, and/or nuts would not survive as a vegetarian. they also have to eat what sustains them.
i think the thing that bothers me is the excess of the western diet. in the US, we are consuming something like 3X more meat per capita than in the 1950s. this demand has given rise to the horrible conditions of factory farms, which iām sure you are aware of. if people would simply reduce the amount of these foods they consume, it would do a lot for animal welfare. i once mentioned this in a forum on another catholic site, that we donāt need and should not eat meat more than a couple of days a week, and you would have thought i had just called the pope the anti-christ
but we are not entitled to unlimited and inexpensive meat/egg/dairy productsā¦ i think those things should be fairly expensive.i hear you too, about the large corporations taking over farming. smaller farms cannot compete, and everyone is beholden to these few large companies. in the days of real farming, the veg*an movement didnāt go anywhere because animal welfare really wasnāt such a big problem. now, as more people learn whatās going on, they donāt want to contribute to it.
and yep donāt even get me started on corn LOL - one of the other things i did was eliminate most processed sugars/grains but jeez, if you read labels, you see that high fructose corn syrup is EVERYWHERE.
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happymommy
Guest
I love the commercials now for corn syrup, āitās okay in moderation,ā well thatās probably right, but it is in EVERYTHING, not to mention that it is the food along with sugar. how are we suppose to use it in moderation. I read all labels, even have my girls doing it, people look at you funny in the store when they here a 9 year old say āoh, we canāt get that, it has corn syrup in it, yucky!āand yep donāt even get me started on corn LOL - one of the other things i did was eliminate most processed sugars/grains but jeez, if you read labels, you see that high fructose corn syrup is EVERYWHERE.
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RosalieM
Guest
Thanks, Cathybramble! Maybe the lions couldnāt sniff his blood so well. (kidding) but seriously, I have noticed the smell of blood from meat eaters sometimes.it was daniel - he asked the king for only vegetables to eat and water to drink. at the end of 10 days, they compared him with the men who had eaten the kings food, and found daniel et al to be healthier.
maybe thatās why the lions didnāt eat him too
sorry, carnivore folks, but then thereās something else I canāt resist saying here (hehe). In the latest cannibalism-survival news story; the survivors who ate their companions said they tasted like beef. (I couldnāt resist that one).
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cathybramble
Guest
hahaha thatās awesome
i did similar when mine were growing up - you gotta teach them young just going to the store for a jar of jelly is kind of an ordeal, good grief, itās more expensive to buy it without sugar than with corn syrup in it
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That_one_guy
Guest
Vegans smell better and taste better.(Because we are organic)Thanks, Cathybramble! Maybe the lions couldnāt sniff his blood so well. (kidding) but seriously, I have noticed the smell of blood from meat eaters sometimes.
and for the people who believe in aliens,ā¦the meat eaters wonāt have to worry about being eaten by the aliens when they harvest the earth,because they will taste nasty.Humans donāt typically eat carnivorous animals,and neither do the aliens.Only us poor vegans will be eaten.
I amuse meā¦
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
cathybramble
polyfacefarms.com/
Also, the forensic studies on skeletal remains of Native Americans, especially those out in the plains, showed that theyāre diets consisted of 80% meat.
Youāre right though, the American diet is horrible, mine included, and its actually more expensive than eating healthy.
Oh well, New Years Resolution #550
Jim
From the book, āThe Omnivoreās Dilemma,ā the industrial farms produce less per acre than farms where the cattle are grass fed and allowed to roam. In fact, the author visited Polyfacce Farm in Va, where the farmer raises his cows completely on grass. His chickens are moved about the farm in mobile hen houses, where after the cows have fed in a pasture, the chickens are allowed to run free in that pasture, there-bye eating the grubs and larva, that accumulate in the manure. In essence, the chickens purify the pasture, the same way in the wild, birds follow the herbivores and purify the planes. This farm is the most productive in Va if not the east coast.
polyfacefarms.com/
Well thatās debatable. When I was on the Atkins diet, I ate meat everyday. I had some concern over it, until I read that the hunter gatherers, pretty much ate meat daily. In fact, animal fat was a necessity for plains indians and pioneers who went out to explore the wilderness. Without fat, the body starves. They use to call it ārabbit malnutrition,ā when a man in the wilderness, was feeding on lean animal meat such as deer and rabbits, and not getting enough fat. The Native Americans use to carry beaver fat with them, to cook with the lean meat they hate, in order to survive.if people would simply reduce the amount of these foods they consume, it would do a lot for animal welfare. i once mentioned this in a forum on another catholic site, that we donāt need and should not eat meat more than a couple of days a week, and you would have thought i had just called the pope the anti-christ
Also, the forensic studies on skeletal remains of Native Americans, especially those out in the plains, showed that theyāre diets consisted of 80% meat.
Read the āOmnivoreās Dilemma.ā I could not believe what they make corn into. Corn syrup is only part of it. They break down each kernel into other agents like dextrose, that you see on package labels. Ironically, the three corn corporations would not allow the author into their facilities. They claimed it was for US security reasons.
Youāre right though, the American diet is horrible, mine included, and its actually more expensive than eating healthy.
Oh well, New Years Resolution #550
Jim
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happymommy
Guest
I try to make my own jelly, still has sugar in it, but none of the other chemicals and preservatives. I try to use unbleached sugar when I can, itās expensive. Unbleached flour doesnāt seem to cost as much, so we use that all the time.hahaha thatās awesome
just going to the store for a jar of jelly is kind of an ordeal, good grief, itās more expensive to buy it without sugar than with corn syrup in it
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cathybramble
Guest
damninteresting.com/?p=168Thanks, Cathybramble! Maybe the lions couldnāt sniff his blood so well. (kidding) but seriously, I have noticed the smell of blood from meat eaters sometimes.
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cathybramble
Guest
iāve never made my own jelly but itās a thought! i enjoy cooking - partly just because itās fun and because i love to eat but also, as you say - then you know whatās in it.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
BTW, speaking of corn syrup, right outside of the office building Iām sitting in, about 200 yards down the road is a freight yard. Trains come in with tankers full of corn syrup. They transfer the corn syrup into big truck tankers, just like the oneās that transport gasoline, out to food companies across New England. Its unbelievable, to see. In fact, we all thought they were shipping chemicals for manufacturing from there, then we found out it was all corn-syrup.
Jim
Jim
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RosalieM
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Mystic_Warrior
Guest
By the way, for those discussing the B12 āproblemā in a vegan/vegetarian diet - I got two words for you - Total Cereal It has 100% of RDA of B12. Problem solved Actually many foods and beverages (such as soy milk, which I love) are fortified, so no problem.
I had no problems with getting enough nutrients. When I went veggie I read, learned, read and learned some more before I switched. I calculated my daily caloric intake and made sure I had all the vitamins and minerals I needed - which is more than I can say for most people - veggie or not.
Peaceā¦
MW
Actually many foods and beverages (such as soy milk, which I love) are fortified, so no problem.I had no problems with getting enough nutrients. When I went veggie I read, learned, read and learned some more before I switched. I calculated my daily caloric intake and made sure I had all the vitamins and minerals I needed - which is more than I can say for most people - veggie or not.
Peaceā¦
MW
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
FYI, for those interested, I purchased this book years ago,
and apparently it sold well enough, for the monks to do a new issue.
The recipes I tried were very good, and what I liked is that Brother Victor follows the growing seasons. There is a little prayer with each recipe.
He also has several other books, including one on soup, but I havenāt purchased that one, yet.
Jim
and apparently it sold well enough, for the monks to do a new issue.
The recipes are mostly vegetarian(dairy allowed), but there are a couple fish recipes.
The recipes I tried were very good, and what I liked is that Brother Victor follows the growing seasons. There is a little prayer with each recipe.
He also has several other books, including one on soup, but I havenāt purchased that one, yet.
Jim
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That_one_guy
Guest
Thanks.Iāll check it out!
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cathybramble
Guest
your point is well taken about fats in the diet - weāve been brainwashed to think theyāre not good for us, but they are necessary and good for us. iāve struggled with my weight for many years, and through it all there was the recurring theme of counting calories and limiting fats. these days i work to get enough fats and calories - but they come in the form of nuts, peanut butter, sesame oil/tahini, olive oil, and coconut milk and oil.cathybramble
From the book, āThe Omnivoreās Dilemma,ā the industrial farms produce less per acre than farms where the cattle are grass fed and allowed to roam. In fact, the author visited Polyfacce Farm in Va, where the farmer raises his cows completely on grass. His chickens are moved about the farm in mobile hen houses, where after the cows have fed in a pasture, the chickens are allowed to run free in that pasture, there-bye eating the grubs and larva, that accumulate in the manure. In essence, the chickens purify the pasture, the same way in the wild, birds follow the herbivores and purify the planes. This farm is the most productive in Va if not the east coast.
polyfacefarms.com/
Well thatās debatable. When I was on the Atkins diet, I ate meat everyday. I had some concern over it, until I read that the hunter gatherers, pretty much ate meat daily. In fact, animal fat was a necessity for plains indians and pioneers who went out to explore the wilderness. Without fat, the body starves. They use to call it ārabbit malnutrition,ā when a man in the wilderness, was feeding on lean animal meat such as deer and rabbits, and not getting enough fat. The Native Americans use to carry beaver fat with them, to cook with the lean meat they hate, in order to survive.
Also, the forensic studies on skeletal remains of Native Americans, especially those out in the plains, showed that theyāre diets consisted of 80% meat.
Read the āOmnivoreās Dilemma.ā I could not believe what they make corn into. Corn syrup is only part of it. They break down each kernel into other agents like dextrose, that you see on package labels. Ironically, the three corn corporations would not allow the author into their facilities. They claimed it was for US security reasons.
Youāre right though, the American diet is horrible, mine included, and its actually more expensive than eating healthy.
Oh well, New Years Resolution #550
Jim
i do think that people who go veg by simply taking away certain foods from their diet are asking for trouble - you have to re-learn how to eat wisely using different foods, in order to be healthy. it isnāt complicated, itās just different than what most of us were raised with.
anyway, itās been just over a year for me, and so far so good. i donāt count calories, i just keep all my carbs complex, eat when iām hungry, and avoid eating more than i need to. this past year there was a contest at my work for weight loss over an 8-month period, and wellā¦ just going vegan and taking up brisk walking a few days a week, i won. there were people who did atkins and south beach and other diets and some of them started out losing more than i did, quicker, but iāve lost about 5-6 lbs a month at a steady healthy pace, and kept it off. it seems to me a very natural and healthy way to eat.
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