African Catholics get their own church

[Beau_Ouiville]

OK, my hometown had (among its Catholic churches) an Irish church, an Italian church, a Polish church and a Slovak church. So, I guess this is traditional.

"Last week, Julie Okoli was moved to do something she hasn’t done for a decade: dance in the aisle during regular Sunday morning mass in her hometown. “We dance and we move. We clap, we raise up our hands to worship and glorify God,” the Nigerian-born Winnipegger says during an African-style Catholic mass. “Here (in Winnipeg Catholic churches) we stand still.”

The recent formation of St. Kizito African Catholic Community by the Archdiocese of St. Boniface means Catholics of African descent can choose to worship in a familiar style every Sunday, one that incorporates traditional cultural practices into their Catholicism, says the priest in charge. “The church went back and said we are going to dance, to live our faith in an African expression,” explains Rev. André Mangongo of how the Catholic mass was adapted in Africa several decades ago."

winnipegfreepress.com/life/faith/african-catholics-get-their-own-church-105093529.html

 

[CDNowak]

I thought there were already at least two African Churches: Ge’ez and Coptic?

 

[Dale_M]

Africa is a big continent, covering a wide variety of cultures. So I am a little perplexed by what is meant by an “African-style” Mass.

I do recall, however, that the bishops of Congo (formerly Zaire) pressed for, eventually wrote and submitted, and after a couple decades, got an enculturated liturgy approved. And this liturgy apparently does include drumming… I wonder if that is what is meant?

 

[twf]

The ancient Ethiopic or Ge’ez Rite includes ritualistic drumming and dancing during certain parts of the eucharistic liturgy. While inappropriate for a typical Western Latin Rite mass, I wouldn’t rule it out in all contexts. I trust that during the eucharistic liturgy itself the congregation is quiet and still and the atmosphere solemn…

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

I trust that during the eucharistic liturgy itself the congregation is quiet and still and the atmosphere solemn…

Some of the initial changes made by the new cardinal in our archdiocese was that folks had to stop standing during the Offertory and there would be no long interruptions for the ‘sign of peace’. So, in the black congregations at least, there are long interruptions at the beginning of Mass when the congregation greets those assembled for the service.

 

[StrawberryJam]

No one has Their own Church. If it is a Catholic Church in Union with Rome it is universal. I bet the words out in front do not say African Catholic Church.
Do they?

 

[the_phoenix]

A distant relative of mine was a missionary priest in Africa for over 50 years. When he would come back to the US to visit, he would mention the culture shock of going from the kind of Mass he was used to in Ghana which featured spirited singing and perhaps even liturgical dancing to the much more reserved and quiet typical North American Mass in say, an Irish or German ethnic parish.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

No one has Their own Church. If it is a Catholic Church in Union with Rome it is universal. I bet the words out in front do not say African Catholic Church.
Do they?

Do you have any idea why the seat of American Catholicism is called “St. Patrick Cathedral”?

 

[StrawberryJam]

Do you have any idea why the seat of American Catholicism is called “St. Patrick Cathedral”?

Yes. It is named after a Saint. This does not imply that the Cathedral can be considered one that is Irish.

It is not an Irish Church that happens to be Catholic. It is a Catholic Church that is universal, and the Irish did not “get their own Church” When St. Patrick’s Cathedral was built!

Can’t you see the difference?

 

[Dale_M]

I bet the words out in front do not say African Catholic Church. Do they?

Perhaps not yet, since they have only recently moved into their new home. However, according to the news article and the announcement by the archdiocese, the official name of the congregation will be “St. Kizito African Catholic Community.” I would expect that to be posted somewhere in front of the building.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Perhaps not yet, since they have only recently moved into their new home. However, according to the news article and the announcement by the archdiocese, the official name of the congregation will be “St. Kizito African Catholic Community.” I would expect that to be posted somewhere in front of the building.

I would not be offended or made to feel unwelcome if the sign was St. Kizito Catholic Church.

I would not be offended if there was a huge statue of the saint, for all to see in front. Clearly showing an African Saint of the Universal Church.

I AM offended by the title the Church will have in future.

The Catholic Community is not about ethnic tribes. So I have been led to believe anyway.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Yes. It is named after a Saint. This does not imply that the Cathedral can be considered one that is Irish.

Research the history of the cathedral. In addition to being a church, it is an ethnic icon.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Research the history of the cathedral. In addition to being a church, it is an ethnic icon.

Beau, the name out front does not say St. Patrick’s Irish Catholic Community Church.

Read about that saint, and see why that would be utterly ridiculous!

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Beau, the name out front does not say St. Patrick’s Irish Catholic Community Church.

It didn’t have to.

Read about that saint, and see why that would be utterly ridiculous!

Benn there, done that, bought a t shirt.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I am not going to give you the attention you seek on this matter.

St. Patrick’s Cathedral is not telling a passerby to keep on walking if they are not Irish, nor are they stating that the Irish community has their own church in the Universal Catholic Church, nor are they limiting the “community” to any specific ethnic culture.

This is the very reason I can not and will not consider Eastern Orthodoxy.

 

[CB_Catholic]

No one has Their own Church. If it is a Catholic Church in Union with Rome it is universal. I bet the words out in front do not say African Catholic Church.
Do they?

While the Church is universal, and no one has their “own” church, some Catholic churches of non-Latin rites may name the nationality of the congregation in the name of their church. We have a couple around here. The name, for example may be “St. ‘So and So’ Ukranian Catholic Church”–Byzantine Rite. But anyone may attend the Liturgy there.

 

[StrawberryJam]

While the Church is universal, and no one has their “own” church, some Catholic churches of non-Latin rites may name the nationality of the congregation in the name of their church. We have a couple around here. The name, for example may be “St. ‘So and So’ Ukranian Catholic Church”–Byzantine Rite. But anyone may attend the Liturgy there.

Again, while I understand this happens in the Eastern Orthodox not in union with Rome, and is allowed in the Eastern Rites in Union with Rome, I can not walk into a place that lables themselves as if they were their own community based on ethnic backround.

It is very offensive, and I thought we have as a human race moved past that by now.

 

[StrawberryJam]

While the Church is universal, and no one has their “own” church, some Catholic churches of non-Latin rites may name the nationality of the congregation in the name of their church. We have a couple around here. The name, for example may be “St. ‘So and So’ Ukranian Catholic Church”–Byzantine Rite. But anyone may attend the Liturgy there.

I know of an Eastern Catholic Church in union with Rome with a very simillar title.

It does not use the word community in it with connection to an ethnic race.

There is some wordplay going on here.

 

[CDNowak]

The ancient Ethiopic or Ge’ez Rite includes ritualistic drumming and dancing during certain parts of the eucharistic liturgy. While inappropriate for a typical Western Latin Rite mass, I wouldn’t rule it out in all contexts. I trust that during the eucharistic liturgy itself the congregation is quiet and still and the atmosphere solemn…

Not so much, I had the opportunity to observe, in part, the Ge’ez liturgy a few times and solemn is not a word I would ever apply to it, probably not even to funerals. That does not preclude reverence, within that Rite, however.

BTW, I think here in the States, at least, the “Ge’ez” title is preferred, due to the fact that there is among them a large Eretraian community, or so I was told by an Eretrian monk. (Then again, he also told me the Psalms were translated wrong: every time there appears the word “Ethiopia” it ought to be “Eretria” )

 

[Aramis]

Again, while I understand this happens in the Eastern Orthodox not in union with Rome, and is allowed in the Eastern Rites in Union with Rome, I can not walk into a place that lables themselves as if they were their own community based on ethnic backround.

It is very offensive, and I thought we have as a human race moved past that by now.

(As usual) you read more into the labels than those who attend. Cure that bigotry.

You’d be hard pressed to find a Carpetho Rusyn in many parishes of the Ruthenian Church. (Others, you’ll find almost nothing but, but those also seem the ones not growing, not thriving.)

The Afro-Latin tradition within the Roman Rite is a cultural adaptation that any Catholic in an area where it is approved may experience. In establishing a personal parish of a different but approved tradition, the Church is ministering to immigrants the same way it did in Wyandotte, Michigan… two huge parishes with the different ethnic traditions strongly present. There are not a few “Mac___” in OLMC, and more than a few “___ski” in the other parish… The two parishes retain the ethnic adaptations, and make no bones about being ethnic in tradition, but do not turn away any Catholic. Not even the Ethnic Ruthenians who prefer the Roman Rite over the Ruthenian Byzantine (Which is available just a couple miles away…), most of whom settled in an ethic enclave in a neighboring township.

Heck, Greater Detroit has parishes of a variety of rites and ethnicities. And there is nothing wrong with that. Just looking at detroit…
Roman Rite parishes include some ethnic parishes of German, Polish, Irish, Italian, Latino
Byzantine Rite parishes of the Ukrainian (Ukrainian and Pole), Ruthenian (Ukrainian, Pole, Ruthenian, Hungarian), and Melkite (Turk, Arab, Greek) Churches
Chaldean Rite parishes of the Chaldean (Arab) and Syro-Malabar (Malabarese) Churches
Syrian Rite parish of the Maronite (Lebanese) and mission of Syro-Malakara (Indian) churches.
Armenian Rite parish of the Armenian Catholic Church

While the various ethnic groups shape the parish life, none is exclusive to it.

The Church has frequently embraced ethnic diversity… Trent to VII is the LOW point of it.