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Brendan
Guest
Probably for the same reason the seat of Catholism everywhere is named after a Jew.
Because both men involved were good, Holy examples of Saintly life.
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Because both men involved were good, Holy examples of Saintly life.
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Brendan
Guest
I spend July doing mission work in rural Tanzania. Yes the music was more upbeat that I was used to ( but still quite good).
The Eucharistic liturgy was very reverent, very quiet, everyone knelt, on either the dirt ground, or the concrete. If there was a kneeler at all, it was a board laid on the ground. Also, If anything, they do a LOT more kneeling there than we do here. They kneel for the Penitential Rite and for the Prayers of the Faithful .
It was also about 3 1/2 - 4 hours long on average with a homily lasting about 1 1/2 hours. Offetory was also long, as each person came up and put their money in a box, or gave an usher whatever produce or livestock the family brought in lieu of cash ( which was about half). So I take some of that ‘quiet’ back, the rooster that was given at offetory to the bishop of Kahama in his Cathedral made a nice racket. The goat was quiet and attentive though
The choir also did more Latin hymns than almost all North American parishes, in the ‘Missa Luba’ style. I hope that the Winnepeg church carries this tradition on.
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Beau_Ouiville
Guest
Sure! Just think why that particular saint was chosen in antebellum NYC. Think of the historical context.
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curlycool89
Guest
There are loads of ethnic Catholic parishes. There are “St. ___ Polish Catholic Church” for example. The vast majority are a hold-over from the early 20th century when each ethnicity had their own parish to keep their community together. Today, it’s impractical because not all Poles or Germans or French live in the same neighbourhood.
Those parishes and this one are known as Personal Parishes as opposed to Territorial Parishes. It’s just celebrating the Mass while adding in some of ones traditions (in my hometown, there’s a parish which incorporates local Native customs for example).
You do realize that there are 23 Catholic Churches too, right? Roman (Latin) Catholics are the biggest, but there are 22 Eastern Catholic Churches that are independent of the Roman Church (but still under the ultimate authority of the Pope). The largest is the Ukrainian Catholic Church (in my hometown, there are actually 2 Bishops; 1 is the Latin Bishop and the other is the Ukrainian Bishop).
I’m Canadian, and even I know that NYC is largely and historically an Irish town. Hence it’s St. Patrick because the Catholics were Irish.
Do I win a prize?
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dimittuntur
Guest
So you must be offended by the Chinese, Japanese, Hmong, and all the other Catholic Churches in America that explicitly state the ethnicity of the congregation in their names.
I think you misunderstand what is meant by the Universal Church. There are many many ethnic Catholic Churches all over the world. Every Catholic is welcome to receive Eucharist in them, but the Mass will be said in the language of the people for which the church was built.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
The person looking for Christ, must walk past such lables. He woud never recognize a person limiting who shall enter.
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dimittuntur
Guest
But that is just it. They are not limiting who can enter, all are welcome, but these churches are working to meet the needs of specific ethnic groups.
I have attended Mass said in Hawaiian, Navajo, French and German. This summer, in Switzerland, Mass was said in no less than six languages, All you had to do was show up at a time where the language suited you. But all were welcome at all times.
When we talk of a “Universal” church, it is what we believe that makes us one, not the language of the Mass. Let’s face it, if language mattered, every Mass would be said in the language of the Church…Latin!
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Beau_Ouiville
Guest
"Catholics of Hispanic background say they bring a cultural richness to the faith that represents many Hispanic countries around the world. The Roman Catholic Diocese of Rochester honored this with a Celebration of the Golden Years of Hispanic Contribution, a historic Mass held Sunday.
Brother Juan Lozada, director of the diocese’s Spanish apostolate, said this was the first Mass entirely in Spanish at the diocese’s Sacred Heart Cathedral."
democratandchronicle.com/article/20101018/NEWS01/10180306/1002/NEWS
Brother Juan Lozada, director of the diocese’s Spanish apostolate, said this was the first Mass entirely in Spanish at the diocese’s Sacred Heart Cathedral."
democratandchronicle.com/article/20101018/NEWS01/10180306/1002/NEWS
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dimittuntur
Guest
This summer, I was actually surprised to find such a large Mexican community in Switzerland. It was world cup soccer time and Mexican flags were flying everywhere.
No this isn’t a tangent, the point is that one Mass each week was in Spanish.
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St_Francis
Guest
I love the Byzantine Divine Liturgy
So when I travel, I see if I can find one to attend, and so have also attended a Maroanite Rite Mass as well. Altho each church was organized as the result of an immigrant community, my children and I were always very welcomed, despite our very un-Eastern European background.I have also been to Spanish Masses.
In fact, the only time I was ever not welcomed to a Catholic Church was when I showed up very pregnant and accompanied by 5 children (three not mine) at the parish which I had only recently begun to attend. I was told by a lady sitting nearby that that was too many children, and I should have gone to the church down the road.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
You were very kind and loving to take so many children, yours and not yours to Mass.I love the Byzantine Divine Liturgy
I have also been to Spanish Masses.
In fact, the only time I was ever not welcomed to a Catholic Church was when I showed up very pregnant and accompanied by 5 children (three not mine) at the parish which I had only recently begun to attend. I was told by a lady sitting nearby that that was too many children, and I should have gone to the church down the road.
What a lady you are.
I am inspired by your fortitude to even undertake such a mission. But, you did.
Don’t let other people stop you from that, or quelch your zest. Keep being you, the world would be better off with people helping others the way you do.
I am impressed. I don’t even know if I would be able to do that if I were asked.
But, I do know I would try to if asked.
Edit to add: I ask forgiveness for assuming you are a woman. Please note the Reason for Editing portion above the title of your post.
I have just felt that, Mothers seem to handle this without question, as mine did all her life.
That is an unfair bias. I am sorry if I offended you or disrespected you by making that leap based on my personal experiences. That is not fair.
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markomalley
Guest
Uhhhh…the seat of American Catholicism is not St Patrick’s, it’s the Basilica of the Assumption in Baltimore, the first American Cathedral in the mother diocese of the United States, founded by the first American bishop, John Carroll.
(One could make a case for St Louis, King of France, Cathedral in the French Quarter of New Orleans having that distinction, but that Cathedral was part of the France, not part of the USA)
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Beau_Ouiville
Guest
Hmmm … Do you know where “The American Pope” presided?
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markomalley
Guest
There is no American Pope (not yet, at least).
Francis Cardinal Spellman was the Archbishop of New York, but that does not degrade Baltimore’s status as the mother diocese of the United States and The Basilica of the Assumption as its status as the seat of the bishop of Baltimore…therefore being the seat of Catholicism in the United States
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rlg94086
Guest
We’ve been blessed with a couple of African priests at our parish. Fr. Justus from Uganda told me about the very long Masses and homilies in his home country. They have Eucharistic centers in the towns, where people can receive when they can’t make the trip to Mass. He said they would be really disappointed with a short Mass/homily, since most of them have to travel hours to attend! I think most Americans take for granted our access to Mass.I spend July doing mission work in rural Tanzania. Yes the music was more upbeat that I was used to ( but still quite good).
The Eucharistic liturgy was very reverent, very quiet, everyone knelt, on either the dirt ground, or the concrete. If there was a kneeler at all, it was a board laid on the ground. Also, If anything, they do a LOT more kneeling there than we do here. They kneel for the Penitential Rite and for the Prayers of the Faithful .
It was also about 3 1/2 - 4 hours long on average with a homily lasting about 1 1/2 hours. Offetory was also long, as each person came up and put their money in a box, or gave an usher whatever produce or livestock the family brought in lieu of cash ( which was about half). So I take some of that ‘quiet’ back, the rooster that was given at offetory to the bishop of Kahama in his Cathedral made a nice racket. The goat was quiet and attentive though
The choir also did more Latin hymns than almost all North American parishes, in the ‘Missa Luba’ style. I hope that the Winnepeg church carries this tradition on.
Our current priest is from Ghana. I haven’t quizzed him about the Mass in Ghana, but I know they do things a little different (not surprising). For example, some of our parishioners stood during the offeratory procession one Sunday, and he remarked that they would always stand in Ghana, since the community is presenting the gifts. He likes the traditional hymns and knows them all by heart, so I’m not sure the music is too different. I’ll have to ask. He is also a big fan of silence and reverence, proper dress, etc. More than once, he has chastised parishioners for showing up in shorts and flip-flops and, during the summer months, said “hey, I have to wear all of this, so don’t complain about the heat!”
We had a celebration in Fr. Gillette’s honor after our Corpus Christi celebration this year, and we brought in his cousin from the East Coast to help cook and a Ghanese (Ghanian?) Dance Troupe from the local area. It was a lot of fun. We will miss him when he goes back to Ghana, but I’m sure he is needed there. He was here for 3 years while he finished his Masters of University of Portland.
What I am curious about with the African church is which part of Africa their liturgy mirrors. I don’t think it is the same throughout the continent. Are they borrowing bits and pieces from different countries? Some of the description sounds like the descriptions of Ugandan Mass Fr. Justus shared, and it’s named after a Ugandan martyr.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
First the Irish, now the Americans Beau?
What is your misunderstanding on the Universal Church exactly?
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Beau_Ouiville
Guest
I read too much history?
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Aramis
Guest
Antipope “Pope” Pius XIII resided in Springdale, WA. Yet another mad heretic schismatic priest.
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Beau_Ouiville
Guest
"Over the years I’ve referred to my copy of American Pope many times. Cooney’s history of the American Catholic Church in the Spellman era is excellent. "
amazon.com/American-Pope-John-Cooney/product-reviews/0812911202/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Point taken. Let’s work on the things we can together. I am willing to do it.
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