Africa's superstar bishop talks Islam, oil companies, and why selling the Vatican is a stupid idea [John Allen]

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By JOHN L. ALLEN JR.
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*Earlier this week, I interviewed Archbishop Wilton Gregory of Atlanta, the lone American member of the Oct. 4-25 Synod for Africa, and asked him how many of the African bishops he already knew. He ticked off several, beginning with Archbishop John Onaiyekan of Abuja, Nigeria – but at that point Gregory stopped himself, saying, “I guess that doesn’t really count, because everybody knows Onaiyekan!”*

*Made a bishop at the tender age of 38, and now in full stride at 65, Archbishop John Olorunfemi Onaiyekan is Africa’s superstar prelate, known around the world as the voice of his continent.*

*How ubiquitous is Onaiyekan? Consider that he’s taking a break from the synod on Monday to fly to London, where that night he’ll debate the planet’s most famous atheist, Christopher Hitchens, on the topic of whether the Catholic church is a force for good in the world. The event is hosted by a renowned BBC anchor. Someone else might be cowed, but when my wife wished Onaiyekan good luck, he shot back: “Good luck to Hitchens!”*
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My family will be praying for him regarding his debate with Hitchens, who is very cunning in such situations. The one thing of which I am certain is that the medium of television never does any favors for the dour, curmudgeonly Hitchens. He exudes a certain form of pomposity which is very disquieting. The Bishop, on the other hand, I have no doubt will radiate a warmth, born of a good heart, which will shine forth in stark contrast to his grim adversary. As far as the debate itself goes…I pray that the Holy Spirit is upon him that evening.
 
I must admit, I had never heard of Abp Onaiyekan, When I saw the title of the thread, I assumed it referred to Cardinal Arinze, but he is now 77. In contrast, at age 65 Abp Onaiyekan is in full flower. Certainly his is a name to remember.
 
Hitchens is travelling the world with his message. I suspect he is mostly interested in himself and the fame that he has received from his stance more than anything. Recently he was in Sydney giving a lecture at the Opera House. It was the same old stuff he uses all the time - right down to the delivery of his supposedly humorous one liners about the Church. In the respect that he regurgitates the same stuff over and over again i would imagine that it would be fairly easy to debate with him.

Is the debate on a tv station that we could download from the BBC?
 
ConfusedTim said:
Is the debate on a tv station that we could download from the BBC?
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I’m not sure that the debate will not be televised. The moderator is a BBC World News anchor, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it will be broadcast. On the other hand, tickets to the debate are sold out, so maybe?

=================================================================
October 19, 2009

The Catholic church is a force for good in the world
Autumn 2009 Series

Event Information:
The debate will take place at: Methodist Central Hall Westminster.

Doors open at 6:00 pm. The debate starts at 6:45 pm and finishes at 8:30 pm.
Speakers for the motion:
Archbishop John Onaiyekan Roman Catholic Archbishop of Abuja, Nigeria.

Rt Hon Ann Widdecombe MP Conservative MP and Catholic convert.
Code: 
Speakers against the motion: 	
Christopher Hitchens Writer, broadcaster and polemicist, author of the bestselling book "God is not Great".
Stephen Fry Actor, author, comedian and television presenter.
Code: 
Chair: 	
Zeinab Badawi BBC World News anchor.
================================================================
intelligencesquared.com/events.php?e…

Be sure to vote in the poll:
“The Catholic church is a force for good in the world” (poll closes October 19th)
intelligencesquared.com/vote-online.php?debate=EVT0195

So far the Catholic Church is losing 95-1.
 
Dale_M said:
I’m not sure that the debate will not be televised. The moderator is a BBC World News anchor, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it will be broadcast. On the other hand, tickets to the debate are sold out, so maybe?

=================================================================
October 19, 2009

The Catholic church is a force for good in the world
Autumn 2009 Series

Event Information:
The debate will take place at: Methodist Central Hall Westminster.

Doors open at 6:00 pm. The debate starts at 6:45 pm and finishes at 8:30 pm.
Speakers for the motion:
Archbishop John Onaiyekan Roman Catholic Archbishop of Abuja, Nigeria.

Rt Hon Ann Widdecombe MP Conservative MP and Catholic convert.
Code: 
Speakers against the motion: 	
Christopher Hitchens Writer, broadcaster and polemicist, author of the bestselling book "God is not Great".
Stephen Fry Actor, author, comedian and television presenter.
Code: 
Chair: 	
Zeinab Badawi BBC World News anchor.
================================================================
intelligencesquared.com/events.php?e…

Be sure to vote in the poll:
“The Catholic church is a force for good in the world” (poll closes October 19th)
intelligencesquared.com/vote-online.php?debate=EVT0195

So far the Catholic Church is losing 95-1.
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Stephen Fry is speaking against the motion.

When did Stephen become a debater against the Catholic Church?
 
lemonbeam said:
Don’t you find it strange that article was written by a Catholic?
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Why is that strange? He’s reporting the fact that when votes were taken before and after the debate the results were that Hitchens won. Not only that but, in his and many others’ opinion, the Catholic side was not the intellectual equal of Hitchens and Fry.
 
NewEnglandPries said:
Why is that strange? He’s reporting the fact that when votes were taken before and after the debate the results were that Hitchens won. Not only that but, in his and many others’ opinion, the Catholic side was not the intellectual equal of Hitchens and Fry.
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What do you mean, ‘‘intellectual equal?’’

Has the Archbishop ever debated anyone before yesterday, or was this his first time?
 
lemonbeam said:
What do you mean, ‘‘intellectual equal?’’

Has the Archbishop ever debated anyone before yesterday, or was this his first time?
Click to expand...
I have no idea what the Bishop’s debating record is. However if this was his first debate he was rather foolish to choose Hitchens to go up against.
By “intellectual equal” I mean someone who is as fluent in subject material as the person they are countering. From the reports the Bishop came with some statistics and such but had no real response for most of Hitchens’ polemics.
This doesn’t mean the Bishop is unintelligent but rather was up against someone much more knowledgeable on the subject.
 
NewEnglandPries said:
I have no idea what the Bishop’s debating record is. However if this was his first debate he was rather foolish to choose Hitchens to go up against.
By “intellectual equal” I mean someone who is as fluent in subject material as the person they are countering. From the reports the Bishop came with some statistics and such but had no real response for most of Hitchens’ polemics.
This doesn’t mean the Bishop is unintelligent but rather was up against someone much more knowledgeable on the subject.
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First, I think English is not the first language for the Archbishop which could present some problems. Second, thanks for explaining but I don’t think Archbishop Onaiyekan *chose *to debate Hitchens. I think this organization, I think they’re called Intelligence Squared, came forward to the Archbishop and equally asked Hitchens if they would debate each other and they both subsequently accepted.

This is probably the Archbishop Onaiyekan first debate.

You need a seasoned debater to debate someone like Hitchens! Like Dr. William Lane Craig! He did a fantastic job when he debated Hitchens! Dr. Craig has debated atheists and skeptics for years!

It’s a little foolish to think that the Archbishop could debate in this way.

They should have asked another knowledgeable Catholic apologist/debater to debate Hitchens, perhaps.
 
The Archbishop bravely walked into hostile territory, participated in a rigged sham of a media event, and in so doing proved an example to us all of the fortitude needed when confronting hostile arrogance, untruth and distortion. Do not believe that any objective reports of this event will be available, despite the promulgation of distorted, stilted hyperbole relative to Hitchens’ “overwhelming intellectual superiority”. It was his crowd, it was his mileu…it was meaningless in all but the Archbishop’s evident courage.
 
unafraid said:
The Archbishop bravely walked into hostile territory, participated in a rigged sham of a media event, and in so doing proved an example to us all of the fortitude needed when confronting hostile arrogance, untruth and distortion. Do not believe that any objective reports of this event will be available, despite the promulgation of distorted, stilted hyperbole relative to Hitchens’ “overwhelming intellectual superiority”. It was his crowd, it was his mileu…it was meaningless in all but the Archbishop’s evident courage.
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No one is questioning the Archbishop’s bravery. However if this was his first debate then it was rather foolish to go up against Hitchens. Who knows if the “poor showing” in the debate hurt the cause of Catholicism/Christianity but it doesn’t help when headlines go out proclaiming that Hitchens humiliated Catholicism.
History is full of well-intentioned people causing bigger problems than they realized.
 
lemonbeam said:
They should have asked another knowledgeable Catholic apologist/debater to debate Hitchens, perhaps.
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It would have been interesting to hear Francis Cardinal George go up against Hitchens. Under the circumstances, he likely still would have, ultimately, lost. But his articulateness, sharp insight which is ever quick, and experience with media probably would have raised the level of thoughtfulness among those in the audience to expand their ability to receive a Catholic Christian message.
 
NewEnglandPries said:
No one is questioning the Archbishop’s bravery. However if this was his first debate then it was rather foolish to go up against Hitchens. Who knows if the “poor showing” in the debate hurt the cause of Catholicism/Christianity but it doesn’t help when headlines go out proclaiming that Hitchens humiliated Catholicism.
History is full of well-intentioned people causing bigger problems than they realized.
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As I said before, I think the fault is of the organization that set up the debate, Intelligence Squared. How they could they reasonably pick an Archbishop that has not got prior debating experience, to go up against someone like Hitchens for his first debate!?

Now mind you, I am not putting Hitchens on a pedal stool. Hitchens is very good when it comes to semantics and his vocabulary, which his British accent only accentuates. But he is a complete Anti-Theist and ignorant when it comes to discussing Religion. He knows very little about Theology and very little History. He denies the historical existence of Jesus Christ!! Which goes against every major Historian out there!

And remember what the article called Stephen Fry and Christopher Hitchens, ‘‘Performers.’’ The overwhelming majority of the audience was probably their crowd cheering them on and hostile to the two Catholics.

But this is just one debate. Hitchens has by no means ‘‘humiliated Catholicism.’’ I would like too see Hitchens go up a seasoned Catholic debater, rather than someone whose first debate is Hitchens.
 
chicago said:
It would have been interesting to hear Francis Cardinal George go up against Hitchens. Under the circumstances, he likely still would have, ultimately, lost. But his articulateness, sharp insight which is ever quick, and experience with media probably would have raised the level of thoughtfulness among those in the audience to expand their ability to receive a Catholic Christian message.
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I’ve never heard of him, but why do you think he would he have lost?

Father George Coyne is one I can think of that. He had a debate type talk with Richard Dawkins, which is available to watch on Google video. Father Coyne was really excellent!

You can watch it here:

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3638611399680561077&ei=ZxjfSqGDL42a2wLr4oCyCg&q=father+coyne&hl=en&client=safari#

He would be very good when it comes to debating Hitchens!

Or what about John Lennox? Another excellent debater! He has actually debated Hitchens before, a well as Dawkins and Michael Shermer!
 
The Church has withstood attacks from such formidable intellectual atheists as George Bernard Shaw in the past, and Hitchens certainly pales in comparison, therefore, my guess is that Hitchens’ impact against our faith will amount to nil; he’ll just end up as another pile of bones heaped onto that very old shrine which marks the futility of megalamania. You see, in truth, Hitchens does have a deity…himself. Personally, I have always viewed Hitchens as a bit of a misplaced drama critic…sort of an Addison Dewitt (from All about Eve), if you will. He has that very cold, somewhat effeminate manner common of certain English intellectuals, which makes them more amusing than appealing. No, Christopher Hitchens may be the curiosty du jour, but he represents no serious threat to the Magisterium of the Roman Cathlic Church.
 
lemonbeam said:
I’ve never heard of him, but why do you think he would he have lost?
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The context and audience place any Catholic debater at a distinct disadvantage in such an environment because of its profound secularist bias, an anti-papist Anglican influence and a simple context which is largely set up for failure to begin with. Basically, I think that whoever might have taken the podium would have faced insurmountable odds. Even if they clearly had more cogent, thought provoking insights, most listeners likely would have remained against them and voted in opposition as to what they agreed with.

Cardinal George, btw, is Archbishop of Chicago and current head of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. A brilliant, insightful theologian, who has just authored a new book which is well worthwhile. He’s basically considered one of the leading lights of current ecclesiastics. Check him out.
 
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