After Easter Mass this morning being confronted by liberals.

[Jenny_Z]

I do remain calm and hold on to myself. I have learned that throughout the years. What puzzels me is all the inovations to the Mass, I.E. Holding hands, Luturgial Dance, band music, etc… this is status quo while omitting a word is offensive.

The thing is, the PRIEST is the one that decides whether or not to do those things. It’s his decision. The prayers you read are also his decision.

While you may not agree with how a priest celebrates Mass (and indeed, the priest may be wrong), it’s not your place to change it for him. You must respect his position, even if you don’t respect his decisions.

If you have a problem with something, go to him directly instead of doing it yourself.

 

[jay29]

The thing is, the PRIEST is the one that decides whether or not to do those things. It’s his decision. The prayers you read are also his decision.

While you may not agree with how a priest celebrates Mass (and indeed, the priest may be wrong), it’s not your place to change it for him. You must respect his position, even if you don’t respect his decisions.

If you have a problem with something, go to him directly instead of doing it yourself.

The Priest doesn’t own the mass and the mass is not about him either.

 

[Jenny_Z]

The Priest doesn’t own the mass and the mass is not about him either.

No, but he’s the one saying the Mass, and as the head of the parish church, it’s his decision. I’m saying his position should be respected, and you should use the proper channels for these things instead of just deciding to do whatever you want (isn’t that what we get mad at “progressives” for?)

 

[Phemie]

My apologies to Tim, I was unclear as to where the reader restated the reading. In verse 36 “Such is our God; no other is to be compared to Him” was read as “Such is our God; no other is to be compared”.

I agree with the Church when she translated Wisdom to the pronoun “She”. It is how it was written, and how is should be read. I would have objected if the reader had changed “She” to “He” or “It”. This did not happen.

I do object to the intentional omission of masculine pronouns simply because they are masculine. It is how it was written, and how is should be read. Lest you think is an innocent mistake, this error was carried out in all seven readings. In the seventh reading, Ezek 36:28 “You shall live in the land I gave your fathers; you shall be my people, and I will be your God.” was changed to “You shall live in the land I gave your ancestors; you shall be my people, and I will be your God.” It should be read as written, no more, no less.

If we give up this fight, it is only a matter of time before we all hold hands during the “Our Parent”.

Is it possible that your parish is using the Canadian Lectionary? Our translation, in both the old and the new Lectionaries, is ‘ancestors’ not ‘fathers’.

OTOH, our Lectionary says 'none other can compare to him."

 

[jmcrae]

The Priest doesn’t own the mass and the mass is not about him either.

The priest is in charge of the parish, and especially all of the Sacraments that are celebrated there, and how they are to be celebrated - we are under his authority.

The Mass belongs even less to any particular lay person than it does to any particular priest. We have absolutely no authority to override a priest in his own parish. The only person who is allowed to do that is his Bishop.

If you have a difference of opinion with your priest, take it up with him in a private meeting in his office. Don’t override his authority in public.

 

[Apryl]

Who is wrong? Am I doing something wrong? I do get compliments too.

:crying:

You poor thing you.

I think it would take a lot to keep me from running, screaming from that church! What a travesty you’ve described… the sad thing is: I believe it. I’ve seen too many act pretty much the same way … just not as far as what you’ve described.

Well, it starts with your parish priest. You have to consider what his role is. He is the pastor. Does he want to be in a Mega-Liberal church, or does he want to help to get people to salvation?

If he wants to be Mega-Liberal… there isn’t an awful lot you can do, short of contacting the Bishop, who himself may be in favor of the Liberal-ness (let’s face it: the church needs to make money to keep the lights on, and it also looks good for them to have more people in the building). If that’s the case, you are pretty much stuck.

But… maybe not: You could make it your business to … gently now… help to explain to those who want to be (Edited) (that’s my word for (Edited) Catholics) why we do what we do in church. Explain to them that there is the GIRM, and the CCC to help us to understand what is written in scripture. Point out that when they are in the Catholic church, it’s universal, and what they do in this house should be the same as what is done in other houses.

This may or may not work, but it can be a start.

Oh, and as for their complaints: SO? I mean, really… who do you need to please? Them, or God? Do you need to please people who haven’t a clue how clueless they are, or do you need to help them to become clued in? Do you need to please the folx who are trying to become Protestants within the Catholic church, or do you need to please the Catholics within the church.

 

[CradleCath]

I am 39. I was an Altar boy in the middle 1970’s till 1985. I became a lector about 5 years ago. Sorry for the confusion./QUOTE

I have not read all of the posts in this thread, but I would think that sometime during this 5 YEARS, your priest would have talked to you if you were doing something wrong when you are reading.

 

[Salonika]

crm114:

Jesus always said He came to save the sinners, not the righteous, and so I guess that means He came to save the liberals, too. Whenever you deal with them, remember our Lord’s teaching, whatever you do for the least of My brethren, you do for Me.

And how would you react if a liberal said this about traditionalists?

I thought that one of the radical things about Jesus’ message is that it was for EVERYONE and that characteristics such as age, social status, sex were irrelevant.

My reaction to this comment is sadness - and this has also been my reaction to other threads where people have also allowed what they consider “abuses” to divert them from the real meaning of Easter.

crm114:

Now, on a more serious note …

What you weren’t being serious above? If you weren’t being serious what were you being? Judgemental? Sarcastic?

 

[Salonika]

(Edited)

Apryl:

Point out that when they are in the Catholic church, it’s universal, and what they do in this house should be the same as what is done in other houses.

No variety reflecting language, culture or customs?

Apryl:

Do you need to please people who haven’t a clue how clueless they are, or do you need to help them to become clued in?

If I was told (my word or by attitude) I was clueless or got the message that I was considered clueless I’d be out of there, meaning no chance to get me clued in.

 

[PJM]

=Malkin71;5069131]Something happened to me after Mass this morning. I am a Lector at my Parish. I was confronted by two of our choir members about the way I lector. Let me tell you about myself. The reason why I became a lector was I was tired of seing lectors dress and perform sloppy. Some lectors you can not even hear them at all. Some do not dress properly. Being trained as an Altar boy I thought I could do a good job and bring respect back.

When I am lectoring ,I try to speak loud and clear so the the people in the last row can hear. I do get comments from people that I am the only one that they can hear in the last row. I always wear a suit and tie. If we would have Surplus and Casocks I would wear them. I make a point to strike my chest during the Confetitor and bow during the words of “By the power of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary…” I genuflect when Approaching the Altar towards the Tabernacle. Now during the petitions I make changes when they refer to the Altar as a “Table”, and when they say a “Comunion Meal, or Communial Gathering” I change it to the Holy Sacrafice of Mass. I DO NOT CHANGE ANY of the WORDS of SCRIPTURE! I read it VERBATIUM. I do say This is the Word of the Word and forget to say Sisters before the second reading. This is what some liberals have a problem with me.

Two members of the choir apprached me and questioned me about it. One of them always walks up to the Altar opens the Tabernacle and stands by the Priest during the 'Lamb of God" while everyone else is kneeling.

I explained to them I am a Conservative Traditionailst who does not like the Liberal influences of Feminisim and Modernism. They said the Blessed Mother said it was ok and that I should talk to people who are more Different minded and I would see. I also mentioned that they should not change the words of the Agnus Dei and add words to it. I know this got under their skin.

I mentioned last week Our Priest skipped the Homily on Palm Sunday. They just ignored it. All I am trying to do is have a proper O.F. and stop all the nonsense that goes on. Not to brag, I like to mention I am always saying a couple of Rosary’s at the Fatima grotto in front of our Church and before Mass. I am also a member of the Pittsburgh Latin Mass Community. When I do go there I am at peace and feel at home.

Who is wrong? Am I doing something wrong? I do get compliments too.

:tiphat:

My dear friend don’t waste time “on who is wrong?”

Continue to be RIGHT!:clapping:

Actions do speak louder than words! Keep theaching them the RIGHT WAY, with humility and charity

I did the very same things when I was lectoring. I’ve lost my speaking voice, so now I just teach from the pews and when receiving my God in Holy Communion.

Oh, and by the way, you may wish to call them “uninformed” rather than Liberal’s. They may be both, but the sickness caused the desease. It poor catechesis, poor example to blame. They they are right simply because more folks do it their way, than the right way.

Thank you my friend. Keep up the good work!

 

[redrosetea]

I think you need to ask your priest what he wants …It sounds like you are doing a good job, but it is hard to get a true picture of what is happening in your parish

Sometimes there can be a couple of bossy boots that think they are the personal filter for everything that is done in the church…perhaps this is what you encountered

 

[crm114]

What you weren’t being serious above? If you weren’t being serious what were you being? Judgemental? Sarcastic?

Perhaps your profile should display “Humor: nil” right next to “Religion: nil.”

 

[CradleCath]

Perhaps your profile should display “Humor: nil” right next to “Religion: nil.”

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

 

[Salonika]

Perhaps your profile should display “Humor: nil” right next to “Religion: nil.”

Humour is in the eye or ear of the beholder.

I do have a strong sense of irony - something very necessary on some threads.

 

[crm114]

Humour is in the eye or ear of the beholder.

I do have a strong sense of irony - something very necessary on some threads.

Add: Irony: impaired

 

[Extempore]

I don’t know how the folks who talked with you were necessarily ‘liberals’. Particularly since liberalism itself is not a bad thing.

Actually, liberalism itself IS a bad thing. Especially when it comes to Catholicism.

 

[Malkin71]

The priest is in charge of the parish, and especially all of the Sacraments that are celebrated there, and how they are to be celebrated - we are under his authority.

The Mass belongs even less to any particular lay person than it does to any particular priest. We have absolutely no authority to override a priest in his own parish. The only person who is allowed to do that is his Bishop.

If you have a difference of opinion with your priest, take it up with him in a private meeting in his office. Don’t override his authority in public.

Let me give you an example of why I am trying to do things.
Last week at the Palm Sunday Mass the sermon was skipped after the Gospel.
During Lent, Confessions are heard after Mass. Last week somone ask if Father was hearing Confessions because he wanted to go to Confession. I went and asked him. When I did he said that he was too busy because at the other Church there was a Baptism and to come on Saturday Morning. Now the Saturday morning was Holy Saturday and there are no Confessions heard from Holy Thursday through Holy Saturday.
I know scheduels are tight but is this how we treat a Sacrament?
During the year after Mass he will hear Confessions if you ask him. It is hard to go during the week to him cause of work. I usually go to a church nearby at work. I am thankful of that.

There is a time while I in Confession with him and a elderly lady just walked in in the middle of Confession and was asking Fr. to visit some one in a hospital. He said that he only visits peopel in a a “certian hospital”.
To Bless homes Bless chalk with a prayer card is avaliable to do 20+C+M+B+09 above your doorway yourself. I am thankful we know a Priest who will come and persaonaly bless our house, car and all our rooms himself.
Also there are times during holydays where there is no homily.

I am in no way trying to put down our Pastor. I do like him. He knows where I am coming from I have given him a Mass Abuses questions and answers in the past. This way back when I was starting to get into defending my Faith. I asked him if he read it and he said “It was intresting.” I have also asked to get a Novena to St. Anne started. He said that “we have enough going on.”

He knows where I am coming from. We do get into discussions about the Pope, Pro Life, politics, apologetics and the Tridentine Mass. I admit I did not talk to him about “Liturgical Abuses”.

I had talked about the Ruberics to our privous Sacristan. She said, We do not have to listen to Rome and We do not need Latin at the Mass." We aslo got into it about holding hands during the “Our Father” and the Caramastic movement.

During on of my conversations with my current Sacristan. I mention about the Sacralurum he mention that we do not have a key for it in years and there are some rules we do not have to follow.

Recently I have had the opertunity to start to build a bridge with our current Sacristan, by giving him some of my Leaflett, Tan, Roman Catholic Press and Ignatious press catalogs. Also by talking an explaining my views so he has a better understanding of where I am comming from. He also bring communion to my Mother. Instead of trying to start a debate with him. I would like to build something good to help start something good. Also, to show I can be of some help.

Also, I have talked to one our heads of our Parish council about The Tridentine Mass and he said that that is when the Priest “mumbles to the wall”? Yes. he did say that. Also I asked if we could put up the Communion rail. He said “Vatican III”. Whe I try to talk to him about issues he just ignors it and walks to somone else to talk.

Is this helping to see of some of the stuff that goes on. I am no way trying to put down my Parish or our Pastor and my fellow Parishners. I just want them to see what the Pope said recently about what was before VII is still sacred.

 

[davymax3]

While I am with you in spirit, I think that ultimately you should read what you are directed, or don’t do it.

Also, brothers and sisters is certainly an acceptable translation. Even though “brothers” would be the direct latin translation, this is not accurate. In Latin, the plural for a group is said in the masculine. It’s just the way it is. Yes, he could have said, “brothers and sisters,” but by saying “brothers,” any Roman would have understood this to mean, “brothers and sisters.” Since, he is talking to both male and female. So, I think this is the appropriate translation.

Everything else you’re doing seems pretty respectable; so keep up the good work.

 

[Malkin71]

According to the Lectionay for Mass, many of the readings from St. Paul are begun with “Brothers and Sisters.” The lector has no right to omit “sisters” since it is written in the Lectionary. Also, the proper ending to the reading is “The Word of the Lord.” Not “This is the Word of the Lord.” The reason it was changed was to make it faithful to the Latin. As a Traditionalist you would want that, wouldn’t you?

I must also ask, how old are you. You said you went from being an altar server to a lector. Those who complain also might be thinking that it is quite arrogant for a young person to be taking his or her own initiative to change things. If I am wrong about your age I apologize.

I moderate the lectors in my parish, and if they did the things you do I would have a sit down with them and tell them to only read what is written and not to add or subtract anything if they want to keep doing their ministry.

Now would the proper Latin Translation of “Pro Multis” mean “For us or For many”?

 

[DixitDominus]

“pro multis” would simply be “for many”.