After More Than 450 Years, Catholicism Returns To King Henry VIII's Palace

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They would not call themselves Protestant since the Anglican Creed is Catholic . Reading their creed what would you call them ?
 
Peccavi said:
They would not call themselves Protestant since the Anglican Creed is Catholic . Reading their creed what would you call them ?
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well I was an Episcopalian at one time and an Anglican. You feel both Catholic and Protestant. It is a little more complicated than that.
 
Not if you are an Anglo-Catholic like for example Father Kenneth Leach
 
Peccavi said:
The Anglican creed (Church of England’s Confession of Faith )

WE BELIEVE in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.

For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.

Amen

99% Catholic
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It’s called the Nicene Creed and I believe that many Christians recite some variation of it.
 
Peccavi said:
Amen

99% Catholic
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I believe this was the 1973 translation. I understand the ICEL worked with both Anglicans and Catholics on this. You might even still hear “And also with you” in some quarters.

AFAIK, the Anglicans never used the Latin form after the Reformation. But it was the same as the Catholic Latin form used since the Council of Nicea. Its English translation should theoretically be the same.
 
oneofmany said:
From watching a documentary on it the other day it showed Catherine did have a son but he died in infancy, she also had many miscarriages. Their daughter lived but I guess Henry didn’t see that as a heir fit to succeed him at the time.

It also showed Catherine continually praying and fasting to have a son. Makes me wonder how much of that fasting made her sickly and not able to have a healthy pregnancy. Too bad doctors at the time didn’t know that.
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Yes, Catherine had quite a few miscarriages. While Henry was still married to Catherine he had an illegitimate male child - Henry Fitzroy - with Bessie Blount, one of his mistresses. This may have been one of the factors that led Henry to claim that his marriage to Catherine was not blessed by God and seek an annulment - he claimed that he had sinned by marrying his dead brother’s wife and the lack of male child was God’s punishment. In effect he claimed that his marriage to Catherine was invalid due to her previous marriage to his brother. It was the general attitude of society at the time that dictated that it was preferable for a male child to succeed to the throne, and Henry was under dynastic pressure to produce male heirs.

Don’t have a reference to hand but I’ve heard it claimed there may have been a genetic reason for Henry’s reproductive problems. It is thought that Anne Boleyn also became pregnant several times but only had one surviving child (the future Elizabeth I). Anne certainly had one miscarriage, which occurred shortly after Henry was injured in a jousting accident.
 
7_Sorrows said:
probably the Lutheran’s. then there is also the Apostle’s Creed.
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AND the Athanasius Creed, one of my favorites. Unfortunately, it’s not recited in too many liturgies these days. Alas.
 
7_Sorrows said:
I am not sure King Henry VIII would be turning over in his grave as he actually defended the Catholic faith and liked the Catholic Mass and being Catholic. Yes he did create his own Church of England and declared himself head of the church and he did break from Rome after many years of desperation wanting a male heir. I don’t think he would mind at all the service that took place. Perhaps I am wrong, but that is my opinion.
I think it is wonderful the service took place there. Let the healing begin.
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I think you’re right. From my understanding, the Anglican Church was not too far from Roman Catholicism at its inception.
 
ChristianDude said:
I think you’re right. From my understanding, the Anglican Church was not too far from Roman Catholicism at its inception.
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Wasn’t too far from/with its traditionalists either. In fact it was a petition signed by many Anglicans, including a bishop or two, which preserved the old Latin Mass. This was the Agatha Christie Indult which was granted by Pope Paul in the early 70’s.
 
ProVobis said:
Wasn’t too far from/with its traditionalists either. In fact it was a petition signed by many Anglicans, including a bishop or two, which preserved the old Latin Mass. This was the Agatha Christie Indult which was granted by Pope Paul in the early 70’s.
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what was granted by Pope Paul in the early 70’s?
 
7_Sorrows said:
what was granted by Pope Paul in the early 70’s?
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When the new form of Mass was introduced in 1969/1970, a petition was drawn up, for sending to the Pope, asking that the Mass we now call the Extraordinary Form would continue to be available. This petition was signed by a number of famous people, including Yehudi Menuhin, Cecil Day-Lewis (the father of Daniel Day-Lewis), and Agatha Christe, the novelist (Miss Marple, Poirot). Also as mentioned previously a couple of Anglican Bishops. This petition was presented to the Pope, who gave permission for the EF to continue in England and Wales. Legend has it that when Pope Paul VI saw the petition, one of the reasons why he approved was because he saw Agatha Christe’s name on it. Ever since then the permission given by Paul VI has been colloquially referred to as the “Agatha Christe Indult”.
 
Mark1970 said:
When the new form of Mass was introduced in 1969/1970, a petition was drawn up, for sending to the Pope, asking that the Mass we now call the Extraordinary Form would continue to be available. This petition was signed by a number of famous people, including Yehudi Menuhin, Cecil Day-Lewis (the father of Daniel Day-Lewis), and Agatha Christe, the novelist (Miss Marple, Poirot). Also as mentioned previously a couple of Anglican Bishops. This petition was presented to the Pope, who gave permission for the EF to continue in England and Wales. Legend has it that when Pope Paul VI saw the petition, one of the reasons why he approved was because he saw Agatha Christe’s name on it. Ever since then the permission given by Paul VI has been colloquially referred to as the “Agatha Christe Indult”.
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thank you for that background. I had never heard the word Indult before and didn’t know if there was a spelling error or also why Agatha Christie’s name would be associated with it. I did not know Agatha Christie was Catholic. She is one of my favorite mystery authors. Was Cecil Day-Lewis also an actor? thanks again for your reply and information.
 
Regarding Henry marrying Catherine of Aragon - the young teenage Princess who was briefly married to his (also teenage) brother Arthur who died - Henry appealed to the Pope for a dispensation so he could marry Catherine, which was granted. It was therefore disingenuous that Henry should try to use those same grounds for annulment after 20+ years of marriage.

Henry appears to have been in bad health as he aged, it is suspected that he suffered a Traumatic Brain Injury from jousting which changed his personality. He also had a leg wound that did not heal.
 
Kindness said:
Regarding Henry marrying Catherine of Aragon - the young teenage Princess who was briefly married to his (also teenage) brother Arthur who died - Henry appealed to the Pope for a dispensation so he could marry Catherine, which was granted. It was therefore disingenuous that Henry should try to use those same grounds for annulment after 20+ years of marriage.

Henry appears to have been in bad health as he aged, it is suspected that he suffered a Traumatic Brain Injury from jousting which changed his personality. He also had a leg wound that did not heal.
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The dispensation was actually applied for by Henry’s father, Henry VII, after Prince Arthur’s death. One of the key factors in the entire business of the dispensation and subsequent divorce was whether or not Catherine of Aragon had actually had sexual intercourse with Arthur. Catherine always maintained that she never had sex aith Arthur and that she married Henry VIII as a virgin. When the case for the annulment was heard before Cardinals Wolsey and Campeggio, Catherine famously made an impassioned plea to Henry VIII in which she challenged him to state whether or not she came to him as a virgin - and he refused to answer. Evidence was also heard of a statement by Prince Arthur the morning after his wedding night, which could be taken as an assertion that he had “slept” with Catherine - but considering he was only 15 at the time could equally be teenage bragging! The papal dispensation for Henry to marry Catherine actually allowed for both possibilities. But one of Henry’s arguments for the later annulment was based on the assumption that Arthur and Catherine had marital relations, and so the Pope’s dispensation was invalid because the Pope didn’t have the authority to dispense from divine law as contained in Leviticus, forbidding a man to marry his dead brother’s wife.
thank you for that background. I had never heard the word Indult before and didn’t know if there was a spelling error or also why Agatha Christie’s name would be associated with it. I did not know Agatha Christie was Catholic. She is one of my favorite mystery authors. Was Cecil Day-Lewis also an actor? thanks again for your reply and information.
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I’m not sue but I think a lot of the people who signed the Indult were non-Catholic. (NB I’m a member of the UK’s Latin Mass Society so I know buts about it but not everything!). One of the arguments in the petition was based around the idea of “if all the old cathedrals were demolished there would be a public outcry, but the Mass they were built for is about to be scrapped”.
 
Henry continued to be suspicious of Protestants. In 1543, ‘A Necessary Doctrine & Erudition for any Christian Man’ came down entirely on the side of traditional orthodoxy, and merely replaced the papal supremacy with the king’s authority. Any traces of Lutheranism that were present in the Book of 1537 ‘Institution of a Christian Man’ had now disappeared. Although the English Bible was retained, access to it was severely restricted by the Act for the Advancement of True Religion in 1543. This allowed only upper class men & women to read the Bible, with such women only allowed to read it in private. In other words his Church conservative and very"catholic".
 
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