Ag_nots Catholic Scriptural Challenge - just ONE proven example wins!!

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That is where you err my friend. We are not all God’s children. We are all his creations. Jesus told some very religious leaders, “You are of your father, the devil.” Paul in Ephesians calls the world “children of wrath”. (Eph 2:3) You were born by nature a child of the evil one. That is why Jesus said you MUST be born again. That is why He suffered the wrath of God in our place. Until a person sees the truth of this paragraph, they are without hope, no matter how religious they are or how many verses they can talk about.
If that is so what happens to being made in God’s image?

If you are saying that some are children of the devil, then god purposely made children in the devil’s image? Well, what a terrible god that is?

Now Christ died for all according to St Paul. Why would Christ die for the children of the devil?
 
Darlings and Sweethearts,

This thread is moving too fast.

If you are going to ask for someone to re-read your post or refer to your post, can you kindly give post number. It is proving difficult to keep track of the posts.

Many thanks to those who will oblige.
 
Let me go real slow, 😛
Jesus is God so He can not sin.
Mary who was not God did sin becasue there is no out for her.
But the contention is not whether Jesus is God. Because you picked that one line and** isolated** it from the rest, you are in effect saying, this is my proof.

But I am saying that based on that one line, you can conclude that Jesus sinned because He is also a man.

Therefore, you really cannot use that as proof that Mary sinned because the verse on its own can also mean that Jesus also sinned.

Is that plain enough?
 
not really a non Catholic but…

WAIT…if you could…till Benedictus2 (or anyone) answers my post, that’d be #275…someone has to rebut me successfully…actually its not that pressing 🙂
Sorry for missing your post this morning, Henning (hmmm that rhymes 🙂 ). Blame it on my foot.

I have replied post #418.
 
Which is the same point I raised with Hisalone. Chopping the Word of God is not a good way to prove a point. The intent of the author has to be taken into consideration.
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO
Mary is not Jesus Mary is not God.

All have sinned it means all even Mary.
Jesus did not sim because He is God.
He was tempted in everway as we are. How could He be tempted if He did not have sin nature in His flesh.?
 
Jesus ALSO said, "Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; [Jn 20:17]

Jesus said this 3 days after HIS crucifixion, which means He wasn’t in paradise with the good thief as He promised? Did Jesus contradict Himself? No. But where was He?

Peter tells us Jesus


18 being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, , [1 Pet 3:…]

Okay, Jesus went immediately to preach to the souls in prison after His death. He said He was going to paradise with the good thief. So you ask, what gives?

Punctuation, wasn’t introduced to scripture till AFTER the printing press was invented in the 15th century. Before THAT, scripture looked like one giant run-on sentence with no punctuation marks.

You’re getting stuck on where a comma is placed on a word. Before the 15th century there WAS no punctuation in scripture. There were no commas to trip over.

Read the statement without ANY punctuation like it would have been prior to the 15th century.

OR

move the comma

from

Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise

To

Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.

🙂
For the Jew is heaven and Paradise the same?
 
Okay, I will take this quote at face value for now and concede that you may be right about these two being anti-semitic even though you have posted misquote and mistatements on the Popes before. I really do not have time to research it but if anyone else knows anything about this feel free to set Hisalone right.

Having said that though, it does not make a difference to the point being discussed because your rebuttal is what is known as the fallacy of ad hominem.

Ad Hominen: consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking a person’s character or belief rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.

The only time their anti-semitism would matter is if the issue in question is about the persecution of jews or something like that.

Whether they are anti-semite or not does not invalidate the veracity of their teachings. The Church Fathers going way back to the early Christians believed in purgatory (and you have to bear in mind that not all church fathers are anti-semite even if some of them are if they are at all). Orthodox Jews as I mentioned before believed in it,
I do not want to get sidetracked here. Just a thought if they were wrong about the Jews they are probably wrong about other things.
 
Which debate did he win? I love your quote, by the way!
Hi Martin,

This is not a response to the above post.

I just want to know if you have addressed my questions on post 169, 174, 175 and 178.

I took a quick look at your posts and it did not seem like you have but I could be wrong there.

If anyone else knows if these questions have been taken up in your own dialogue with Martin, can you quickly give me the relevant post number. It would be greatly appreciated.🙂

Cheers.
 
I do not want to get sidetracked here. Just a thought if they were wrong about the Jews they are probably wrong about other things.
No, that is for you to prove. You have to prove that they were wrong about their belief in purgatory based on facts. As I mentioned before, even Orthodox Jews believed in it although they did not call it purgatory.
 
It is so obvious that the Immaculate Conception is not taugtin the bible and is therefore contrary, yet many Catholics act as it is.
You are being asked for proof that it is contrary or against the Bible.

Is that so hard to understand? Must we say that 100 times before you comprehend that we need proof.

The proof that you have supplied so far has been refuted.
 
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO
Mary is not Jesus Mary is not God.

All have sinned it means all even Mary.
Jesus did not sim because He is God.
He was tempted in everway as we are. How could He be tempted if He did not have sin nature in His flesh.?
If he had a sin nature, then he had original sin.
 
:hmmm: Hisalone,

Something caught my eye on your post number 423.

You say if its not “taught” in the bible its contrary to the bible.
I think this concept should be explained to me a bit more.
Would you elaborate a bit on this?

kindly,

Monica
 
It is so obvious that the Immaculate Conception is not taugtin the bible and is therefore contrary, yet many Catholics act as it is.
I am not sure but you may just get a prize here. Oh, no sorry, hisalone Do you ever watch football? If you do. do you ever watch Cleveland and Pittsburgh. That is what you kinda remind me of. They jump up and down. celebrate early and 90% of the games if they led the game, at the last second Pittsbugh can seems to find a way to snatch it right back off of them and win. IT is always a good game, its entertaining. That is what you remind me of. But like that game so entertaining!

Now did you ever hear the ole saying not all is written, for the world could not hold all of the books. Not exact scripture but I know you know what I mean. How about ORAL tradition passed down. Every hear that one?

Okay anyway its in there, Do you want me to find if for you? I will if you want. Anyway lets get to the point. Where in the Bible does it say that the Immaculate Conception of Mary is not true. Now you said that. You said its contrary to the bible. Okay could you please show me where in the bible scripture contradicts this teachings. Thank you my Pet.

Also where does it say if you go by the Oral teachings not written you are contrary with the bible? I sure hope you don’t take your toys and go home now. I wanna play too!

Back to the football game, I will say one thing for the ole brownies they do stay win or lose! My son played football for a short time. He was a little like you. you know the dance they do when they catch a pass? I told him yeah you got that dance down real nice. Now you got to complete a pass first. I want to see you do just that, complete a pass. So now I give you the ball. First and ten on the Pittsburgh ten.

One more short thing the Immaculate Conception is not the Immaculate Reception. My son got that wrong in Sunday school one day. It was kinda cute! If you know football you will undertand that one. Especially if you like steeler football!
 
Did he say the ONLY thing you had to do was to believe? I seem to remember Him saying something like “I tell you the truth. Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.”

So it seems like you have to more than just BELIEVE.
Paul says a man is justified by faith apart from ANY works of the law. You get a person SAVED, justified, and he will produce works that actually give pleasure to God. He’s not interested in having people who do works because they are afraid He will send them to hell or’purgatory. Faith is the one key that opens the door to everything else. That’s why Jesus said that.
 
The most Christlike people I have ever met don’t believe that. And I have known a bunch of them. Imperfect, but godly! It is because they allow Christ to sanctify them daily. And for millions of Christians who read the scriptures and obey them, the notion of purgatory never occurs to them, because it simply is not apparent in the Book God left us with!
Sorry Martin777 but it is there;

Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.

Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, “be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect.” We are only made perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.

Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.

Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.

Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God’s graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.

1 Cor. 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people being baptized on behalf of the dead, in the context of atoning for their sins (people are baptized on the dead’s behalf so the dead can be raised). These people cannot be in heaven because they are still with sin, but they also cannot be in hell because their sins can no longer be atoned for. They are in purgatory. These verses directly correspond to 2 Macc. 12:44-45 which also shows specific prayers for the dead, so that they may be forgiven of their sin.

Phil. 2:10 - every knee bends to Jesus, in heaven, on earth, and “under the earth” which is the realm of the righteous dead, or purgatory.

2 Tim. 1:16-18 - Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.” Paul’s use of “that day” demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, for example, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8; 3.13; 5.5; 2 Cor. 1.14; Phil. 1.6,10; 2.16; 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8; 2 Thess. 2.2,3; 2 Tim. 4.8). Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.
continued at scripturecatholic.com/pur…ml#purgatory-I
 
Paul says a man is justified by faith apart from ANY works of the law. You get a person SAVED, justified, and he will produce works that actually give pleasure to God. He’s not interested in having people who do works because they are afraid He will send them to hell or’purgatory. Faith is the one key that opens the door to everything else. That’s why Jesus said that.
Can you judge a man’s heart to know his intentions when doing the works Jesus tells us to do?
 
All right, so have we addressed those verses I proposed yesterday?–Eph 2:8,9; Romans 3-4 on “faith apart from any works of the law” And the one where Jesus is asked, “WHAT MUST WE DO TO WORK THE WORKS OF GOD?” (Something every earnest Catholic want to know.) His response? Can you take it?.."Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you BELIEVE in Him whom He has sent.” Because out of true believing flows everything else–forgiveness, salvation, and genuine good works from a liberated, greatful heart.
Martin777, we did respond to those and you acknowledged according to the verses of Mathew works are judged at the final coming… remember?
 
That is where you err my friend. We are not all God’s children. We are all his creations. Jesus told some very religious leaders, “You are of your father, the devil.” Paul in Ephesians calls the world “children of wrath”. (Eph 2:3) You were born by nature a child of the evil one. That is why Jesus said you MUST be born again. That is why He suffered the wrath of God in our place. Until a person sees the truth of this paragraph, they are without hope, no matter how religious they are or how many verses they can talk about.
He also once referred to Peter as Satan but Peter was chosen to head His Flock regardless. The references pertain to the actions and hearts of the people Jesus is addressing and the lives they are living, not their heritage… Should any person repent God would not hesitate to forgive.
 
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