Ag_nots Catholic Scriptural Challenge - just ONE proven example wins!!

[tassitus]

. . .None of what you wrote addresses that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. . .

Sorry, Hisalone. Are you saying that in the Scriptures, you believe words like ALL always means ALL (without exception), and words like NONE always means NONE (without exception)?

 

[happymommy]

My goodness, don’t you people have to work or sleep?
okay keep going…

 

[notsmart]

“Answer me this Does Mary come short of the glory of God?
If she does then this verse specifically applies to her if she doesnt you have placed her on par with God.”

No, Hisalone that is a conclusion you have drawn. God does not tell us that if he decides to do something in a human, that suddenly he is surrendering His status as the True God, nor does it make anyone else God. You seem to limit God’s ability to do whatever pleases him. Sounds like you get this idea that God has limits.

I HAVE PROVEN MY POINT . IF YOU REMAIN BLIND THEN IT IS NOT THAT I HAVE NOT PROVEN MY POINT IT IS THAT YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO REMAIN BLIND.

That is arrogance par excellence! You have proven no point except that you believe in a God who ought to do as you think.
Your discernment is lacking in my opinion.- based on this quote of yours above.
Your comment in judging anyone to be blind, and shout it at them is over the top dramatics, not to mention offensive.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Mary was full of grace, she was bearing Jesus who is the grace that entered this world. Mary full of Jesus who is grace John 1.

None of what you wrote addresses that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Answer me this Does Mary come short of the glory of God?
If she does then this verse specifically applies to her if she doesnt you have placed her on par with God.
**
I HAVE PROVEN MY POINT . IF YOU REMAIN BLIND THEN IT IS NOT THAT I HAVE NOT PROVEN MY POINT IT IS THAT YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO REMAIN BLIND.**

I think it is you who is deaf to the answer. First, regarding ALL, you have been told many times that ALL cannot mean every human being who ever lived in a strictly literal sense. We can agree it does not include Jesus.

IF it does not include Jesus, then it may include others who are excluded for very special reasons.

Who may those people be?

“Sinned” is an active verb. Surely, all people have not actively sinned. Babies have not sinned. So, this verse excludes babies, since we both agree that original sin, which all people (except the first and last Adam and first and last Eve)are born to, is not the same as actively sinning.

So, we have proven very little from this verse except that it means the vast majority of people are active sinners.

 

[tassitus]

. . .But the Father will never place his children in a place of suffering for sins. Jesus paid in full for that, and to think that a believer could make up for what Jesus already did on the cross is an afront to that cross and the death of Christ. I seriously believe that.

You are right - it is we who may place ourselves in a place of suffering.

It seems you believe that because our sins are forgiven that they have caused no damage which must be repaired - as if the word penance could hold no meaning for a Christian. Interesting.

 

[notsmart]

Mary is always the sidetrack when questions like this are asked of a non catholic.
My question to Hisalone:

Something caught my eye on your post number 423.

You say if its not “taught” in the bible its contrary to the bible.
I think this concept should be explained to me a bit more.
Would you elaborate a bit on this?

kindly,

Monica

Hisalone switches tactics, and throws the good old Hail Mary

 

[notsmart]

You are right - it is we who may place ourselves in a place of suffering.

It seems you believe that because our sins are forgiven that they have caused no damage which must be repaired - as if the word penance could hold no meaning for a Christian. Interesting.

And, you forgot- some non catholics here have expressed the idea that consequences are not a part of sin for a born again.

 

[Hisalone]

His statement, misconstrued.

Neither did Adam nor Eve fell short of the glory of God before the fall.

Interesting Im willing to wager that many would disagree with your statement.

 

[notsmart]

Interesting Im willing to wager that many would disagree with your statement.

Like who?

 

[Cinette]

When I was a child we used to go to the movies on Saturday mornings and there would be a trailer and the kids went wild.

There used to be a bunch of guys at the back of the movie house who would not sit down and throw popcorn all over the place!

Seems these guys are here on this thread. Gosh they haven’t changed a bit in all these years!

Not one of you has even tried to come up to the challenge Ag_not put to you. At first this thread had such promise and we were all getting geared up and then…same old thing whenever the popcorn gang comes along.

There is no real debate, there is no sharing and learning and there is no response to Ag_not’s challenge!

How tiresome!:whacky: :yawn: :doh2:

 

[tassitus]

. . . I long for the day when that will be complete. It won’t happen in purgatory; it will happen the moment I see my Savior face to face and lose this “body of death” as Paul calls it. . .
Does that make any sense?

Frankly, well, no.

I seems you believe in an INSTANTANEOUS PURGATION after you die. You say this “won’t happen in purgatory” - but as the Catholic Church teaches, this very process you describe IS purgatory - read the catechism - it’s not a place but a process.

Could it be that you believe in the process but not the name?

Drives me NUTS!

 

[wintersnow]

Hi Hisalone. I know what you mean. Today is today to me to. But you know what. We are not Jesus. How about a thousand years is like a minute to Jesus. Do you remember that in the bible. See you made a little boo boo there, thinking that the way Your thinking isn’t the way Jesus thinks! Better not do that.

Hi Hisalone, I am waiting for you. I got another question for you my pet. Now in post 334 You said something like could you guys pm eachother because all you do is contradict each other.

Now Did I make a boo boo and fumble the ball? I don’t think I did so, but lets see? I am going to have to throw out the red flag on your call. Can you explain it to me? Don’t get me wrong, like Big Ben there are some days I can’t get a completion either. But gotta throw the red flag, because I don’t agree with the call!

I do love your sense of humor, I really do, You are so much fun. Especially when you want a present. That is my favorite.

 

[Hisalone]

Mary is always the sidetrack when questions like this are asked of a non catholic.
My question to Hisalone:

Something caught my eye on your post number 423.

You say if its not “taught” in the bible its contrary to the bible.
I think this concept should be explained to me a bit more.
Would you elaborate a bit on this?

kindly,

Monica

Hisalone switches tactics, and throws the good old Hail Mary

It is contrary to the bible because Mary is given an exception to sinning when the bible does not give it to her and the bible does say all have sinned.

 

[AshleyBelle]

It is contrary to the bible because Mary is given an exception to sinning when the bible does not give it to her and the bible does say all have sinned.

:hypno:

 

[Hisalone]

“Answer me this Does Mary come short of the glory of God?
If she does then this verse specifically applies to her if she doesnt you have placed her on par with God.”

No, Hisalone that is a conclusion you have drawn. God does not tell us that if he decides to do something in a human, that suddenly he is surrendering His status as the True God, nor does it make anyone else God. You seem to limit God’s ability to do whatever pleases him. Sounds like you get this idea that God has limits.

God does not share His glory with anyone.
God cannot say one thing and then do another that is not His nature. What you deny is that in order for you to give Mary the honor you do you have dishonored God. I realize you dont see it. It is however there.

That is arrogance par excellence! You have proven no point except that you believe in a God who ought to do as you think.
Your discernment is lacking in my opinion.- based on this quote of yours above.
Your comment in judging anyone to be blind, and shout it at them is over the top dramatics, not to mention offensive.

I believe God to do what He says. Im funny like that. He has said ALL and I believe all.

 

[notsmart]

It is contrary to the bible because Mary is given an exception to sinning when the bible does not give it to her and the bible does say all have sinned.

She could have sinned even with the grace God gave her.
She had no exception to sinning. Maybe its not been explained clearly, but I think it was…
The bible does not give it to her? Well, the bible does not give anyone a baptism either. What’s your point?

 

[wintersnow]

When I was a child we used to go to the movies on Saturday mornings and there would be a trailer and the kids went wild.

There used to be a bunch of guys at the back of the movie house who would not sit down and throw popcorn all over the place!

Seems these guys are here on this thread. Gosh they haven’t changed a bit in all these years!

Not one of you has even tried to come up to the challenge Ag_not put to you. At first this thread had such promise and we were all getting geared up and then…same old thing whenever the popcorn gang comes along.

There is no real debate, there is no sharing and learning and there is no response to Ag_not’s challenge!

How tiresome!:whacky: :yawn: :doh2:

I agree. I hate to say this, but I loved the popcorn people. My friend use to catch the Popcorn and then EAT it all up. Then they would quit, because they saw we would join in the fun! When it didn’t go the way they wanted they would quit. And then my friend would have to spend His money and buy his own popcorn.

 

[notsmart]

I believe God to do what He says. Im funny like that. He has said ALL and I believe all.

So do I. I believe God does whatever he wants to, even if he hasnt told you about it and got you to sign off on it first.

 

[tqualey]

Sounds like bet to me!

Let’s make the wager clear: if the majority of posters agree that Adam and Eve were God’s perfect creation - in body and soul before they exercised their God-given free will and chose sin - then you will either respond to the questions asked and stop being insulting or just be quiet.

If the majority respond that Adam and Eve were not God’s perfect creation - in body and soul before the fall, then you just continue as you have been and I will drop out of the thread.

The operative Biblical section is Gen 2:7-25

Interesting Im willing to wager that many would disagree with your statement.

You’re on.

God Bless!

 

[Hisalone]

I think it is you who is deaf to the answer. First, regarding ALL, you have been told many times that ALL cannot mean every human being who ever lived in a strictly literal sense.
**
Why not? Who besides Mary does it not apply? And why?**

We can agree it does not include Jesus.

IF it does not include Jesus, then it may include others who are excluded for very special reasons.

**We know Jesus is excluded because He is God the bible says so.
Show me where Mary or anyother human being is excluded.**Who may those people be?

“Sinned” is an active verb. Surely, all people have not actively sinned. Babies have not sinned. So, this verse excludes babies, since we both agree that original sin, which all people (except the first and last Adam and first and last Eve)are born to, is not the same as actively sinning.

So, we have proven **[there you go again you have proven nothing other than you can rationaize, intelectualize any position you chose to take]**very little from this verse except that it means the vast majority of people are active sinners.