Ag_nots Catholic Scriptural Challenge - just ONE proven example wins!!

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Matariel said:
Oh, I guess you’re right, Martin. After all, she was only the Mother of God, had God inside her womb for nine months, shared her blood supply with God, raised God, gave her flesh to God, and had God conjoined to her by a fleshly umbilical cord. Yeah, I guess she was just a run-of-the-mill garden-variety saint, nothing too special. :rolleyes:

You should understand that all the honour given to Mary by Catholics elevates Christ even higher. Without Christ, Mary would be nothing, just as all of us would be nothing after the fall of Adam.
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I don’t think the average Catholic sees it that way.
 
Matariel said:
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benedictus2:
Purgatory, will cease to exist after Christ’s second coming. Any Catholic here in this thread who know I may have got that wrong please correct me a.s.a.p
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.

Purgatory is only there until the final judgment. So yes, (but I am not sure of this) perhaps that is what will happen at the final judgment, an instant change.

This is speculation, and not official Catholic teaching.
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I checked my book “Catholicism: Now I get it” and it says that after the Final Judgment purgatory will disappear and only Heaven and Hell will remain"

Also in the CCC

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607
As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire.** He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.

So if the purifying fire is before the Last Judgment, then when Christ comes there will be no more purgatory which in a way squares with Martins take on that Pauline passage.
 
You didn’t respond to #675, or the post I posted before that, Martin777.
 
Martin777 said:
I don’t think the average Catholic sees it that way.
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What is in question here is official Church teaching not what every tammy, doris and harriet thinks is the teaching of the Catholic Church. If there is one thing you could probably blame the Church for is lack of catechism of its members.

So many Catholics are under catechised which is also due to some “liberal” sections in the Church who put forth their own agenda rather than teach what the Catholic Church teaches. And I know this for a fact because I have encountered it even coming from priests.

And some of these arise from a misinterpretation of Vatican II.
 
Martin777 said:
I don’t think the average Catholic sees it that way.
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Substantiate please.

Also, I’m around Catholics al the time, and am immersed in Catholic culture. Do you even know how Catholics think? No Catholic I know of thinks otherwise. As a matter of fact, just last year the Vatican excommunicated a group that began to elevate Mary too highly (*The Lady of Nations *heretical group).

Or are you just going by what some anti-Catholic book or person has told you? Or are you just presuming the worst about Catholics because you want to see them in a bad light? :tsktsk:
 
benedictus2 said:
I checked my book “Catholicism: Now I get it” and it says that after the Final Judgment purgatory will disappear and only Heaven and Hell will remain"
…
So if the purifying fire is before the Last Judgment, then when Christ comes there will be no more purgatory which in a way squares with Martins take on that Pauline passage.
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I was talking about the instant change part, not the part about it ceasing to exist.
 
Martin777 said:
I totally agree with that! That has been my message regarding Genesis 3:15 for years. It is very clear that the virgin birth was prophesied in the OT and that it was fulfilled in the life of Mary and Jesus. But of course that is a completely different issue than Mary’s supposed sinlessness.
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You do realize that “enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed” as God ordered means there is no way she could have sin, otherwise there would not be enmity between her and satan… And I know we agree that Jesus is timeless and surely Our Savior would not allow Satan to in any way have affected His mother.
 
Martin777 said:
You know, I wouldn’t really care if Mary was sinless or not. It doesn’t affect me at all. What affects me is false teaching that distracts people from the supremacy of Christ and inserts things foreign to the inerrant Word of God.
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A specious statement, and your attitude shows an unwillingness to do honest research.

The articles that I gave you are Biblically sound but if you choose to reject them that is on you. However, don’t sit there and allege things about Catholic teachings that are not true.

Mary’s immaculate conception is found right there in the New Testament, so it’s not only not false teaching but it would appear that you are the one who is removing something from the inerrant Word of God. 🤷
I looked at one of those links so far, and it was empty words about Catholic dogma and an attempt to show Jesus had no brothers. A bogus waste of time. Whimsical and wasteful.
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You plainly did not read far enough, but that isn’t surprising, since you seem to lack the courage of your conviction to and as a result will not obey the scriptural mandate to “Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.”
There have been multiple false religions for millenia, starting with Babylon and Isis, that promote the cult of mother/son worship. Not saying here that you are worshipping her (are you?), but It will take us millions of years to discover the depths of Christ, and the RCC has distracted people with the Queen of Heaven. It is an abomination.
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Congratulations , you just crossed the ine and I’ve reported you for this attack on our most holy faith and disrespect for us as Catholics.

You won’t read it, but that tired old anti-Catholic lie has been refuted many times and in many places but one of the best is Is Catholicism Pagan?
 
Martin777 said:
I don’t think the average Catholic sees it that way.
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Hogwash…since when do you know ALL average Catholics?

I consider myself a very average Catholic and I sure as vitam aeternam don’t have that problem.
 
Martin777 said:
God can do anything He wants. We all know that. Mary was surely blessed. So were and are a lot of other people. Jesus said that there was no one born of women greater than John the Baptist, but that the least in the kingdom is greater than him. Frankly if the RCC wants to belive Mary was sinless, have at it. It simply is whimsical and less supported by scripture than it’s opposite.
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But show me. Please show me where it say’s that. Please. you keep saying that. I showed you. Where in the bible does it say any other person was FULL of GRACE. Yes many were blessed I will give you that. FULL OF GODS GRACE, Found FAVOR with God. Show me that one!

Show me one person in the bible that God said was BLESSED AMONG WOMEN. Sure many were blessed. I am blessed Martin I have two wonderful Children a great wonderful husband.

But Martin I am not B-L-E-S-S-E-D. Big fat difference. I am not full of Grace. I did not find favor with God. I was not the person hand picked by God to bring in his only Son.

Think what you are saying that Mary the Mother of our Lord and savior is a sinner.

Think about it Martin for one minute what do you think Jesus would say if you said , Hey man how’s it going, and by the way you know your mother is a sinner. Would you, Could you…

You better watch out Martin, and you better not shout, you better be good Im telling you why Jesus Christ is comming to down.

Did you hear that Elizabeth, I’m comming to join ya honey.

Martin said the Mother of Jesus is a sinner!
 
Realcatholicgk said:
**Hi Martin:wave: **
It is supported by scripture. over and over again ~ Even Steve Wonder can see that! :cool: But none are so blind as those that will not be allowed to see. 2 Timothy 2:26

God Bless
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And if we asked him, he would say:
She is the right thing baby! The Blessed Mother of course!
 
According to Church doctrine, which was created first? Man or trees?

If it teaches that man was created first, then it teaches this in direct contradiction of Genesis 1:11-12 and 26-27.

If it teaches that trees were created first, than it teaches this in direct contradiction of Genesis 2:4-9.

According to the Church did God create animals before man, or man before animals 🙂
 
But Martin Ole boy, I will give it to you. At least you didn’t ignore me. You are in to the last round.

I Love you Martin for your faith though, I just don’t agree with you but remember if we go together, I will have the Blessed Mother with me when I plead my case.

They don’t make anyone any better than her to pray for me. She will ask Jesus to have mercy on me too, when the big judgement day comes, and it will come Martin. You go ahead and take your chances. For me, I want the Blessed Mother, Saint Joseph, St Jude (my favorite for the hopeless) St Michael he keeps the ole devil away, etc… Welcome to my trial. And for all the Saints, Angels. Protestants, Jews anyone that believes in Jesus Christ PRAY FOR ME! AND FOR ALL YOUR CATHOLICS OUT THERE NOVENA. KEEP PRAYING TO THE BLESSED MOTHER FOR INTERCESSION FOR ME.
 
Does the Church teach that God changes His mind or that God doesn’t change his mind?

Does the Church teach that everything on land was destroyed in the Flood or that there were giants on land after the Flood?

Does the Church teach that there were many languages spoken before the tower of Babel or that there was only one language spoken before the tower of Babel?
 
Valke2 said:
According to Church doctrine, which was created first? Man or trees?

If it teaches that man was created first, then it teaches this in direct contradiction of Genesis 1:11-12 and 26-27.

If it teaches that trees were created first, than it teaches this in direct contradiction of Genesis 2:4-9.

According to the Church did God create animals before man, or man before animals 🙂
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there is no DOCTRINE regarding this:p
 
Valke2 said:
Does the Church teach that God changes His mind or that God doesn’t change his mind?

Does the Church teach that everything on land was destroyed in the Flood or that there were giants on land after the Flood?

Does the Church teach that there were many languages spoken before the tower of Babel or that there was only one language spoken before the tower of Babel?
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none of these things are in the doctrines so you are barking up the wrong tree here dude:p
 
The challenge was to name one thing the Catholic chuch teaches that is against scripture.

However, this one might be doctrine: Does the Church teach that God is omnipotent?
 
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