Against Pharisees [interview with Bishop Athanasius Schneider]

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FrDavid96 said:
The “new law” to which the new Pharisees adhere is the law of “political correctness” (yes, that’s an American English phrase, not his own).

He is saying that they place the laws of the media and popular opinions above the laws of God.

I think it becomes clear in this sentence:
because they want an exteriorly “clean” solution and to appear “clean” as well in the eyes of those who have power (the social media, public opinion).

They disregard the laws of God and the Church and replace them with the laws of prevailing opinion in order to appear “clean” (ie politically correct and modern).

That’s how I am interpreting his comments.

Thoughts?
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I would have to respectfully disagree on two counts. Firstly, the issue identified by parish and diocesan clergy over the last 30 or more years, of practicing Catholic couples permanently barred from the Sacraments for this reason…is definitely not about being politically correct and wanting to be seen to be ‘clean’. It is manifesting to many clergy as a wound begging to be addressed. The Pope obviously has this sense also to invite the issue for discussion.

The second thing is that it was Jesus who came along with a ‘New Law’ and was being ‘too generous’ to sinners and suggesting that the rules could be relaxed. The force of resistance to that which we know as the sin of the Pharisees, was to insist on strict adherence to the rules as they were. They themselves made a public point of doing the superficial practices, but Jesus could read in their hearts the desire for praise and power. They then turned the secular authorities against this Man and His new laws, until He was ultimately destroyed.
 
Denise1957 said:
Why are we required to have such a legalistic definition of what constitutes a “Pharisee,” such as what you have written above?
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It is the most logical one. Words do having meaning and that is the common meaning when the word is used as an insult. Now I can acknowledge that a many of superior intelligence and theological training can nuance the word, drawing on one aspect that is not commonly seen, but it took someone pointing it out to me to catch his nuance.
 
FrDavid96 said:
The “new law” to which the new Pharisees adhere is the law of “political correctness” (yes, that’s an American English phrase, not his own).

He is saying that they place the laws of the media and popular opinions above the laws of God.

I think it becomes clear in this sentence:
because they want an exteriorly “clean” solution and to appear “clean” as well in the eyes of those who have power (the social media, public opinion).

They disregard the laws of God and the Church and replace them with the laws of prevailing opinion in order to appear “clean” (ie politically correct and modern).

That’s how I am interpreting his comments.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
An excellent interpretation above.

IMO, (and maybe I’m wrong) but I think that progressive Catholics can have every bit as Phariseeical an attitude as the Pharisees described in Sacred Scripture. They have a legalistic attitude toward their own progressive beliefs, which can be based on their own interpretation of Scripture (or what the media or popular opinion dictates). Their views often go against the historical interpretation and teaching of the Church, and they expect that others should go along with what they believe.
 
pnewton said:
It is the most logical one. Words do having meaning and that is the common meaning when the word is used as an insult. Now I can acknowledge that a many of superior intelligence and theological training can nuance the word, drawing on one aspect that is not commonly seen, but it took someone pointing it out to me to catch his nuance.
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Well said.
 
The Holy Spirit does not choose the pope. People choose the pope, in this generation, by praying and discerning who it is that God wants.

It is our belief that the Holy Spirit leads us and gives us gifts. We believe that the Sacraments give us grace. We can look to the past where political maneuvering in a world where information traveled at the speed of months where choosing the pope was fraught with the possibility of intrigue. I rather look to the day we live in now where good, holy men gather to seek what God wants. I would be skeptical beyond hope if I were to think that such a conclave given to prayer and seeking the will of God would result in anything less than the best God wanted to give us. Sure, it is possible. But what would be the standard for me to judge? My own opinions of what the Church is, what our tradition is, what the truth of God is? I have no better benchmark. I might as well be wrong about everything. I can choose to be a pessimist about all that is, or I can accept that God is truly available for those that seek him, not out hiding His Will like a cosmic Easter Bunny.

I am not so sensitive to God that I could every hold my discernment up against the conclave, so I fully accept that the Holy Spirit chose Pope Francis for us.
 
Denise1957 said:
An excellent interpretation above.

IMO, (and maybe I’m wrong) but I think that progressive Catholics can have every bit as Phariseeical an attitude as the Pharisees described in Sacred Scripture.
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Precisely, because in bending or breaking other rules, they are trying to introduce their own rules, which, of course, others can’t break going forward. You are not wrong.
 
ProVobis said:
pn, I’m sure you didn’t mean to contradict yourself. Just sayin… :o
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Very good! I wasn’t clear, was I. I did not quite contradict myself. One is in* general*, One specific. The Holy Spirit does not, by necessity, choose the pope, in the sense that those human agents are free to do what they want. However, these same people can choose to follow God. Maybe I could have said that God does choose that man which is best. It is simply that human sin can make people say know. The final choice is human.

Think of it this way. Who choose the person to be the mother of Jesus, God or Mary?
 
QUOTE=Denise1957;12761156]It isn’t Church teaching that the Holy Ghost chooses the pope. I’m not referring to Pope Francis at all, just the election of popes in general. We can hope that the Holy Ghost guides or influences the Cardinals in their choice of pope, but it certainly isn’t guaranteed at all, so we can’t be assured of it. As far as the Holy Ghost guiding the Church, well, that’s a subject I’m not familiar with, so can’t really comment.

Yes,you are right and I apologize…here is a website that defines the guidance of the church by the Holy Spirit… cuf.org/2002/11/pillar-and-bulwark-of-the-truth-the-infallibility-magisterium-of-the-catholic-church/
 
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