Age Difference in Marriage

[cargopilot]

A long-time friend lost his wife some time ago. Today, he still grieves. He still can’t talk about her without choking up. Throughout their marriage, she had always had health problems and they never had any children survive the pregnancy. Except for his friends, he’s all alone.

He has dated some, but found himself very disillusioned with the typical American female. Qualities he desired and found in his deceased wife are very difficult to find, for a guy who is fourty-something. He wants a good old-fashioned, faithful Catholic female who is eligible for marriage. He also wants kids, very, very much. The problem is, in his view, the good ones are already married, or just not his ‘type’.

He is fluent in Spanish, and flies into Central and South America many times per year. There, he met a girl who he is quite smitten with. He talks about her constantly. She is, of course, Catholic.

The problem is, she’s seventeen and he’s deep in his fourties. He could EASILY be her Dad. And she’s foreign. He is very concerned about the scandalous nature of marrying somone who is so much younger than he is. She is, by American standards, very poor, very foreign, very average looking and very young.

He lives in a tiny house, drives a junky old car, and spends every penny like it’s his last. But he makes a LOT of money, and has a HUGE nest-egg. For her, it would be the true rags-to-riches story.

Others have said that’s wierd, and worse. I say, ‘Go for it’, who cares about the others. What would you say, if he were your friend? Would you accept or reject someone like that in your parish? Would you consider this relationship to be scandalous?

 

[Karin]

I say go for it…but make sure she isnt marrying for a “green card”, or his money. Marry her because she loves you and you love her…marry her because you have things incommon with each other and with the age difference I find that hard.

But hey what do I know…go for it…but be careful!!!

 

[cargopilot]

Karin:

I say go for it…but make sure she isnt marrying for a “green card”, or his money. Marry her because she loves you and you love her…marry her because you have things incommon with each other and with the age difference I find that hard.

But hey what do I know…go for it…but be careful!!!

He doesn’t talk about his money at all. You would never know what he’s got. He keeps that very close to the vest. Of course, to them, all Americans are rich, so no matter what he had, her standard of living would go way, way up. I doubt she can even comprehend just how much he’s got. I don’t really think he cares about that…who else is he gonna give it to? He figures all females have a natural tendency to look for a provider, anyway, so that’s no big deal. There’s nothing wrong with a female wanting a husband that can provide for her. That’s our job.

As for the green card question, of course that could be a factor, but I doubt it. Though I’ve never met her, his description of her focuses on her family-oriented nature. He describes her as only wanting a good husband, a little home and lots of kids. She would only marry someone in the Church, and I have to assume his judgment of character is good. He feels that the Latins, in general, while they may, in many ways, be more primative than us, they tend to be ‘better’ Catholics.

For example, when you go to Mass there, more people DON’T receive the Blessed Sacrament, than do. Why? Because they haven’t been to confession in a couple of weeks. While we Americans, almost ALL receive the Precious Body and Blood of Christ, even if we haven’t been to confession in years.

I tend to not believe that someone from that culture, would exchange their mortal soul, by entering into a ‘sham’ marriage, in the Church, in exchange for a green card. I hope I’m right.

 

[cameron_lansing]

Scandal aside, there are two underlying concerns.

The marriage of minors is strongly discouraged as it is, and the judgment of a man still grieving about the loss of his wife is questionable. She needs some life experience, and he needs more healing.

And, as someone who works in a tribunal full time, I have noticed with sadness cases of widows and widowers who lacked sufficient time to grieve and recover, as well as those who married in their teens. Then too, while I’m certain her intentions would be pure, the affluence which he presents may cloud the mind of a young person in her situation and deprive her of the kind of evaluation she needs to make in considering marriage.

On those two counts, if I were approached by a couple like this, I would “refuse” to witness the wedding (charitably and with discussion, etc.). This “refusal” is really a delay, since parties not prohibited by law have a natural-divine right to marry. The parties would be informed they could bring the matter to the diocesan bishop, who is competent to make the decision. He might allow the marriage to proceed, or refuse to give permission. He might require special counselling for the couple. Permission would be needed from the local ordinary for a priest or deacon to assist at such a wedding.

So while I wouldn’t focus on scandal necessarily, I would ask this question.

Are we serving the couple with love and justice, and respecting the sacredness of marriage, by failing to confront those issues?

 

[cargopilot]

Hi Deacon Cameron,

Thank you for identifying those two concerns, and I agree, those are probably the most important of all.

I suppose the grieving time varies a great deal from one to another. In my friend’s case, his wife has been gone now for more than five years. It is true, he still misses her very, very much. But he wants to be married and he wants children. He’s no spring chicken, but he’s still very healthy, active and leads a very interesting life as a pilot, but mandatory retirement only about 11 years away.

As for her maturity level, I cannot say, for I’ve never met her. I do know that there is no way she’ll ever get to live the kind of life he can provide. That would, of course, be a huge culture shock to her, going from a nowhere little village in Central America to the ‘good-life’ in the USA, as the wife of a pilot.

What is a transition such as this, usually like for someone like her? Do these marriages usually fail?

cameron_lansing:

Scandal aside, there are two underlying concerns.

The marriage of minors is strongly discouraged as it is, and the judgment of a man still grieving about the loss of his wife is questionable. She needs some life experience, and he needs more healing.

And, as someone who works in a tribunal full time, I have noticed with sadness cases of widows and widowers who lacked sufficient time to grieve and recover, as well as those who married in their teens. Then too, while I’m certain her intentions would be pure, the affluence which he presents may cloud the mind of a young person in her situation and deprive her of the kind of evaluation she needs to make in considering marriage.

On those two counts, if I were approached by a couple like this, I would “refuse” to witness the wedding (charitably and with discussion, etc.). This “refusal” is really a delay, since parties not prohibited by law have a natural-divine right to marry. The parties would be informed they could bring the matter to the diocesan bishop, who is competent to make the decision. He might allow the marriage to proceed, or refuse to give permission. He might require special counselling for the couple. Permission would be needed from the local ordinary for a priest or deacon to assist at such a wedding.

So while I wouldn’t focus on scandal necessarily, I would ask this question.

Are we serving the couple with love and justice, and respecting the sacredness of marriage, by failing to confront those issues?

 

[cameron_lansing]

It would be imprudent for me to guess about how long any stage of passage in human development would take, and I’m not clairvoyant about the future of any marriage. But I’d guess the prospects of marital “success” do not look good.

 

[Benedictus]

I find the idea of a 17 year-old marrying a 49 year-old deeply troubling. Aside from being a bit revolting, at the very least, they are at very different points in their lives. The differences in maturity, life experience, and outlook will haunt them. I’m 24 and I’d never consider an 18 year-old.

 

[Elizastaci]

I say if they really love each other, go for it. Life’s short.

 

[Scout]

I was just wondering what the possibility of her wanting to bring members of her family with her would be, if she married this man? I find it difficult to believe that she would willingly leave her family living in poverty.

Scout :tiphat:

 

[Brenda_V]

I can see many reasons why this marriage should not happen - some have been mentioned by Deacon Cameron.

It troubles me that a man who is almost 50 (same age as my husband) seems to think that he can only find a woman to meet his specifications in a 17 yo (younger than our youngest daughter!) What I see is the potential for this good and loving man to become controlling - of course he would have a greater ability to mold a 17 yo to his specifications (gee, sounds like we are talking about an airplane or something!) Once that 17 yo grows up more she will see what he is doing and will rebel.

There is also the cultural differences. The poor girl will be isolated here in the US, we definitely have a different way of doing things and unless she is able to make friends with a very understanding adult woman she will seek out girls her own age who are not “grown up” yet. Her own life experiences will not be enough to carry her through this culture shock. She won’t have family around to help her either.

I am also insulted that this man thinks there are no women closer to his own age who might be what he is looking for.

I say, no, this besides being scandalous, is far from a good idea. Now, if the man were in his early 20’s I might say that there is a better chance for this to work out as they both can grow up together.

Oh, one last thought, what about the fact that this girl (for girl she still is) will probalby be a widow at a much younger age than she should be. 30 years is a big age difference - will the man put her through College so she can get a good job once he dies? I know this sounds morbid but it is something they need to think about - his “nest egg” won’t necessarily help her out in the long run where a good job will.

Sorry, just sounds too gross for me, a man old enough to be a girls father wanting to marry her because she wants a family and is Catholic - she is only 17, once she gets here she may change her mind. I know at 17 I was contemplating becoming a Sister and prayed about it and got back the answer that my vocation was to be married which I did when I was 20 to a man who is only 3 years older than I am.

Brenda V.

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

The problem is, she’s seventeen and he’s deep in his fourties.

A) she is not of the legal age for a fourty year old to date so he’s breaking the law.

B) If he really loves her he will leave her alone until she is in her mid twetnies.

 

[cargopilot]

Scout:

I was just wondering what the possibility of her wanting to bring members of her family with her would be, if she married this man? I find it difficult to believe that she would willingly leave her family living in poverty.

Scout :tiphat:

Oh, I’m pretty sure her whole immediate family would come up, too. At least, that’s what I’ve been told. I don’t know the details, but I think that’s the plan. Her Father and Brothers are some kind of tile/marble craftsmen, and my friend planned to help him set up a business. Spanish-style architecture is very popular, here. He was going to give her parents his house and get another one of their own. There is no shortage of Spanish-speaking people in our state, and his parish offers a Spanish Mass, so I doubt there be too much of a problem of isolation.

 

[Scout]

cargopilot:

Oh, I’m pretty sure her whole immediate family would come up, too. At least, that’s what I’ve been told. I don’t know the details, but I think that’s the plan. Her Father and Brothers are some kind of tile/marble craftsmen, and my friend planned to help him set up a business. Spanish-style architecture is very popular, here. He was going to give her parents his house and get another one of their own. There is no shortage of Spanish-speaking people in our state, and his parish offers a Spanish Mass, so I doubt there be too much of a problem of isolation.

After all the concerns that have been raised, I’d also be concerned that she was marrying him just to give herself and her family a better life. The family gets a new business and a home? It kind of reminds me of the old days when a man was required to pay a dowery for his bride.

Scout

 

[cargopilot]

Brenda V.:

I can see many reasons why this marriage should not happen - some have been mentioned by Deacon Cameron.

It troubles me that a man who is almost 50 (same age as my husband) seems to think that he can only find a woman to meet his specifications in a 17 yo (younger than our youngest daughter!) What I see is the potential for this good and loving man to become controlling - of course he would have a greater ability to mold a 17 yo to his specifications (gee, sounds like we are talking about an airplane or something!) Once that 17 yo grows up more she will see what he is doing and will rebel.

There is also the cultural differences. The poor girl will be isolated here in the US, we definitely have a different way of doing things and unless she is able to make friends with a very understanding adult woman she will seek out girls her own age who are not “grown up” yet. Her own life experiences will not be enough to carry her through this culture shock. She won’t have family around to help her either.

I am also insulted that this man thinks there are no women closer to his own age who might be what he is looking for.

I say, no, this besides being scandalous, is far from a good idea. Now, if the man were in his early 20’s I might say that there is a better chance for this to work out as they both can grow up together.

Oh, one last thought, what about the fact that this girl (for girl she still is) will probalby be a widow at a much younger age than she should be. 30 years is a big age difference - will the man put her through College so she can get a good job once he dies? I know this sounds morbid but it is something they need to think about - his “nest egg” won’t necessarily help her out in the long run where a good job will.

Sorry, just sounds too gross for me, a man old enough to be a girls father wanting to marry her because she wants a family and is Catholic - she is only 17, once she gets here she may change her mind. I know at 17 I was contemplating becoming a Sister and prayed about it and got back the answer that my vocation was to be married which I did when I was 20 to a man who is only 3 years older than I am.

Brenda V.

Hi Brenda,

This is just the kind of scorn and ridicule my bud fears. It’s not for me to say if he is making a choice that is right or wrong, but certainly everyone he interacts with everyday will be quick to pass judgement, as you have.

I can’t predict the future of sucess or whether or not she will ‘rebel’. You may very well be right. I don’t know why she would rebel against someone who will be very kind and lift her, and her family to a level unimagined, before.

As for isolation, please see my above post, regarding her parents and brothers, as well as a large Spanish population in our area. Mass and social opportunities abound here for the Latin-American.

As for education and college, I’m quite certain he would provide that, if that’s what she wanted.

As for his likelihood of dieing and leaving her poor, rest assured, she and any children will be provided for, handsomely. Unless she develops a desire for a BelAire address, Ferraris and Rodeo Drive, she and any children will get to live the rest of her life very nicely. He has joked that when he dies, he hopes she’ll take all that money and marry the gardener.

I’m sorry that you are “insulted that this man thinks there are no women closer to his own age who might be what he is looking for.” Please remember that you are blessed with children, and he is not. He wants children, and the simple fact is a fourty-something female is past child-bearing age. Also, there is actually a minutely small pool of females in the 35-45 age bracket that is even able to marry. Most of the available pool of females in the age bracket you describe are divorced, and cannot marry in the Church.

I’ll pray for my friend and continue to always be his friend. If he marries a then to be 18 year old Latina, I will welcome her into our ‘circle’ with open arms, with no questions asked, or judgements made. If they do go through with this, I also pray that everyone in our close-knit parish will accept them.

 

[Mom_of_5]

Sounds like this gentleman wants someone that won’t expect much from him and is easily satified. He can keep his money and if she does not know much English, he can get away with about anything. He won’t have to change his life style, drive a nice car or live in a well-kempt home. There are lots of wonderful Catholic women who would like to be married and have children, who are closer to his age. A woman in her 30’s would be far more acceptable. I might be a bit pessimistic about this relationship, but would almost bet a hot fudge sundae that I am almost right on. You know what he might “tell” you so that you will bless the relationship, but we never know the true intentions.

Love and peace

Mom

 

[Siena]

Cargo piolet-

Two possible suggestions, 1- can he wait until she is 18? That will help some of the stigma 2- can he bring her and her family to the US without the marriage for a time? No pressure- just to see if she still wants him (I’m sure she would) once her horizons have been broadened a bit. Giving her a choice based on life after the glitter of the US has faded might help too, and give her time to get accoustomed to life here. Have her enroll in school on a student visa perhaps?

I must say that having traveled to Mexico quite a bit when I was younger, a girl of 17 there would be comparable to a girl 10 yrs older here. They don’t have the luxury of an extended childhhod/adolecence. I can also say that my brother, who is only 28 is having a hard time finding a girl to even DATE that dosn’t have TONS of baggage already (many times an ex spouce and kids) He joked to my youngest brother(16) If there were any cute girls he knew with a slightly older sister! He is VERY dialusioned with just HIS age bracket!

 

[cargopilot]

Mom of 5:

Sounds like this gentleman wants someone that won’t expect much from him and is easily satified. He can keep his money and if she does not know much English, he can get away with about anything. He won’t have to change his life style, drive a nice car or live in a well-kempt home. There are lots of wonderful Catholic women who would like to be married and have children, who are closer to his age. I might be a bit pessimistic about this relationship, but would almost bet a hot fudge sundae that I am almost rigth on.

Love and peace

Mom

Hi Mom,

“Sounds like this gentleman wants someone that won’t expect much from him and is easily satified.”

You’re right. A good husband should want a wife that EXPECTS a lot and is HARD to satisfy.

“He can keep his money and if she does not know much English, he can get away with about anything.”

She gets half the money, and when he dies, she gets it all, there’s no one else for him to give it to. He is fluent in Spanish, and I wonder what you think he’s going to ‘get away with’ and how her lack of English will facilitate that?

“He won’t have to change his life style, drive a nice car or live in a well-kempt home.”

His life-style is work. He doesn’t care to leave a nice, expensive car sitting at the airport. He also doesn’t care about having a fancy house just to sit in alone. He’ll give the little house to her parents and let her pick out another house. Well-kempt home? That’ll be her job.

“There are lots of wonderful Catholic women who would like to be married and have children, who are closer to his age.”

Single/widowed Catholic females in their fourties that are ready and able to start a new family, and able to marry in the Church? Where?

 

[Mom_of_5]

Sorry, this 49–17 arrangement sounds more like child abuse than anything else. My grandmother was 18 when her poor parents asked her to marry a 39 yr. old man who just arrived from Ireland. In exchange for the pretty long haired blond, he would provide their basic needs. He bought a farm, helped her family and had 9 children with my grandmother. What did my grandmother have to say about this? Her husband died when she was 50. They had little money and she still had several children at home. She always said, “it is better to be a young man’s sweetheart than an old man’s darling”. He was good to her in many ways, however there was never the normal love that should exist between husband and wife. She said she felt more like a “prostitute” than a wife. She did not re-marry.

Cargo pilot, why are you so involved in all of this? Would you want your 17 year old daughter to marry this or any other 49 yr old???If yes, I’d wonder about you a lot. If the answer is no, then why are you all for this marriage??? You asked for “help”, I think that means helpful insight into this relationship, if you already had your mind made up that this is a “Good thing”, then why bother with the post? You are getting angry with those of us who highly disagree with this arrangement.

Most 17 year olds are in no way prepared to be wives and mothers no matter what nationality.

We have a singles group at our church, and as I understand it, there are singles groups in many parishes. If not, start one, you don’t have to go to another country to find a wife! (under-aged as well)

Love and peace,

Mom

 

[Siena]

Mom of 5:

Most 17 year olds are in no way prepared to be wives and mothers no matter what nationality.

Mom, I disagree with you. A mature 17/18 yr old is better able to be a wife and mother than most 27 yr olds running around here nowadays. I am 30, married and started having kids at 21, and MOST of my college friends are still unmarried, living with someone, and/or seeking out their own “selfish” persuits. I found new friends through my kids CATHOLIC school, but most, if not ALL of them are either divorced and remarried (w/o annulments), and using ABC’s in marriage. All of the people I know are “Catholic”, and the VAST MAJORITY have bought into the secular life. By lack of ANY good life, this girl will not be tainted by it. My biggest concern is that she would come here, and learn more of our ways than just the language, and end up with a different set of values in 10-20 yrs., or that she would be unpreparred to insulate their children from them as she would only have the perspective of someone who was raised WITHOUT the life of excess all but the poorest or most prudent of us are caught up in nowadays.

I am truly sorry for the life your grandma had to endure. But, if your grandfather respected her as a woman than just an “object of his desire” and gave her time for them to actually court, or fall in love, perhaps she would have been happier. I suggessted he give her TIME to fall in love with him, and sccept nothing less as the star of a good relationship. Unfortunetly, for most of history, women HAVE been treated by many men as objects, that does NOT mean this man would! He has already loved and tended to a wife who was ill, and has lost children, He would have a much more compassionate veiw of being a good husband than most. And dont fault him just because he wants a good catholic wife and mother, and she might want a husband who could actually keep a family out of poverty! I have seen this poverty, and it is NOTHING to sneeze at! Love and marriage based on these pricipals, coupled with a mutual respect, would have a MUCH higher chance of not oly remaining together, but being actually HAPPY than most of the marriages I see around me today!

I say, GOD BLESS THEM!

 

[ElizabethJoy]

If he were my friend… hmmm…

Well, I can’t imagine being in love with someone my son’s age. Every age has its beauty, of course, but I just don’t think I would find enough in common with a 23-year old man on which to build a life. But, provided that they love each other, they already have a strong faith and the desire for children and a family in common. Can that not be enough on which to start?

Would I accept such a couple if I encountered them in my parish? Without a doubt! In fact, having been “a stranger in a strange land,” I would mother her and do everything I could to help her, just as I did with several young Navy wives - some from other countries. (Once a sea-mama, always a sea-mama? )

I think Siena has a point in the fact that a young woman growing up in poverty (not to mention orthodoxy) is likely to be mature far beyond her years.

And I agree that it might be a good idea to try to get her to move to the States for a while when she’s of age. Let her go to college and meet other Americans and see some of what our culture is like.

Will she find it easy to make friends and accustom herself to her new surroundings and feel a part of the community? What obstacles will she have to face? Does she love him enough to determine to overcome them?

He seems to be aware that such a marriage is likely to create “something of a stir.” That’s going to be an obstacle - how many in their parish will point fingers and call her a “gold-digger?” How many times will someone refer to her as his daughter? This is going to be a situation similar to what mixed-race marriages went through in this country twenty or thirty years ago. It can be the little things that rip a couple apart.

He doesn’t seem to care what happens to his money, so I sure don’t. But you have to understand that people will tend to feel somewhat protective of him, knowing that he desperately misses his wife. (We had such a May-December romance in our family and it was very difficult for all of us to see someone we loved so much so badly abused and taken advantage of. It doesn’t sound like this is likely to be the case with your friend, but humans will have this natural sense of protectiveness for him, anyway.) The age difference is going to present quite a few obstacles - both external and internal.

He seems to know what he wants. Does she know what she wants? Does he know what she wants? I think anything is possible if there is mutual honesty and love and respect in the relationship.

But, even believing that, it’s still a little tricky for me to get past the numbers. I keep thinking to my son’s friends - and honestly, the idea is disturbing. As in, “Yikes!”