Age Difference in Marriage

[Pug]

I agree with OutinChgoburbs about the visa/citizen thing. I have a relative who married someone from South America. She is a US citizen now, but there was a sticky point. Marriage did not make it an automatic given.

 

[Siena]

Cargo-

I second the thought about all your interesting friends! LOL!

I would like to mention one thing- I am, as a stranger to this man, taking your word about his integrity. If he was a random man on the street, or even just a casual aquaintance, I would definatly give their arraingement a second look. (Not proud to admit- I would also probably jump to some poor conclusions initialy). I think anyone who knows him well, (or cares to) will eventually not have a problem with this. Many others will. They will have to be careful how they are in public, in order to minimize this misperseption. He will need to be courtious and loving to her in public to keep from being seen as a “perv” (sorry). She will have to be very friendly, and quickly learn to speak english (if she dosn’t already) to keep from beeing seen as the “poor mail order bride who is shakled in the house”.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

The idea of a relationship with this much of an age difference makes me nervious… And I’m not particularly comforted by the things that have been emphasized on this thread.

I think it’s important for both this man and this woman to prayerfully discern whether they are called to marry each other. Getting married is not all about what “I want” but what God wants.

Also, there seems to be a lot of emphasis placed on how this man is helping the woman’s family and giving her financial security. A marriage is not a cost-benefit relationship. The woman needs from her husband a man who can be her partner in life. A man who provides her with emotional support and companionship, love and a whole lot more. These things are first of all much more important than money. Second of all it is hard for a man so much older to provide the kind of companionship this woman needs.

God bless.

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

My first reaction was to think that any American man in his 40s or 50s who can’t find any American women even remotely close to his age is just being too darn picky! But it’s his life (and the girl’s), and he does want children, so I’ll ignore all that.

Your friend should ask himself these two questions, though:

1. Would there be enough love (on both sides) to sustain a marriage if a move to the US were not in the cards? Would she still want him if they were going to stay in her country? If not, then maybe it is all about getting a green card.
2. How would he feel about her if, for some reason, she couldn’t have children? Infertility problems are not restricted just to older people. I could show you a web site full of young and youngish people who desparately wish they could have children, but can’t, because of infertility.

I understand about women wanting men who are good providers (but don’t talk to me about it; I’ve always had to provide for myself ), but improving one’s lifestyle is not adequate grounds, in my opinion, for a sacramental marriage (not even at my age ). Neither is desperately wanting children. For some of us, God decides that we won’t be having any children; maybe it’s better to just accept God’s will, and find other ways to be nurturing (God knows our society needs it). Wanting one’s own biological children is an understandable human desire, but it isn’t always God’s plan.

I don’t know if a 17 year-old from Central/South America is really equivalent to a 27 year-old from the US, but even at age 27, people can change their minds frequently about what they really want out of life; the trait would be that much more pronounced in a 17 year-old.

All that being said, if they did marry, and joined my parish, would I accept and welcome them? Of course I would! As long as they were married validly, I wouldn’t consider it scandalous.

Carol Ann
(also known as “Slim Pickins” )

Crazy Internet Junkies Society
****Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag

 

[sparkle]

To me, personally, age is insignificant, as is color of skin. There can be maturity or immaturity is a person regardless of age. I know I would have wed my hubby whether he was 18 or 65.

I do feel however, in my years of living, that spiritual maturity is what matters the most! Someone can have it at 18, or not have it at 40. We, as Catholics, if we’re not married yet, really need to take heed to this more than any other thing.! It is so important! I didn’t know better when I married, well, now I know, and it’s been very hard. I assumed my H was a believer because he was raised going to church. Well, what a surprise–to find out this does not mean a hoot. It’s in a person’s heart, soul, not a mindless formality of family upbringing.

Good–very good thread whomever the poster was.

P.S. Oh one other thing,which has recently come to my mind as of late. I now can totally understand in my old age (40’s–LOL) how older men with money marry younger women with a sexy physique. It gives both of them what they declare, (society, books, etc., ) are the primary needs of men and women. For women–it’s money–financial security, for men—it’s sex, needing to feel powerful, proud, etc., etc., Sadly, this is the case, when you’re not a believer. This is why we see it in our culture so often. Older rich men married to younger bimbos, with great bods. They both fulfill each other’s deepest needs. Really makes one thing though. Sadly even Christian books today, many I’ve read even hold to this. Even a Christian marriage (Protestant) conference said this was true, as these are the first and foremost needs of men and women.

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

sparkle:

I now can totally understand in my old age (40’s–LOL) how older men with money marry younger women with a sexy physique. It gives both of them what they declare, (society, books, etc., ) are the primary needs of men and women. For women–it’s money–financial security, for men—it’s sex, needing to feel powerful, proud, etc., etc., Sadly, this is the case, when you’re not a believer.

What is even more tragic is how often this mindset is found even among people who claim to be religious believers – even devout Catholics.

Slim Pickins – proud member of the:
Crazy Internet Junkies Society
****Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag

 

[cargopilot]

CarolAnnSFO:

My first reaction was to think that any American man in his 40s or 50s who can’t find any American women even remotely close to his age is just being too darn picky! But it’s his life (and the girl’s), and he does want children, so I’ll ignore all that.

Your friend should ask himself these two questions, though:

1. Would there be enough love (on both sides) to sustain a marriage if a move to the US were not in the cards? Would she still want him if they were going to stay in her country? If not, then maybe it is all about getting a green card.
2. How would he feel about her if, for some reason, she couldn’t have children? Infertility problems are not restricted just to older people. I could show you a web site full of young and youngish people who desparately wish they could have children, but can’t, because of infertility.

I understand about women wanting men who are good providers (but don’t talk to me about it; I’ve always had to provide for myself ), but improving one’s lifestyle is not adequate grounds, in my opinion, for a sacramental marriage (not even at my age ). Neither is desperately wanting children. For some of us, God decides that we won’t be having any children; maybe it’s better to just accept God’s will, and find other ways to be nurturing (God knows our society needs it). Wanting one’s own biological children is an understandable human desire, but it isn’t always God’s plan.

I don’t know if a 17 year-old from Central/South America is really equivalent to a 27 year-old from the US, but even at age 27, people can change their minds frequently about what they really want out of life; the trait would be that much more pronounced in a 17 year-old.

All that being said, if they did marry, and joined my parish, would I accept and welcome them? Of course I would! As long as they were married validly, I wouldn’t consider it scandalous.

Carol Ann
(also known as “Slim Pickins” )

Crazy Internet Junkies Society
****Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag

Hey Slim,

I really wish I could introduce my bud to you, you Sky Queen, you. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

Excellent questions, CarolAnn.

On qx. 1, it’s interesting you mentioned that, as my bud has pondered that very thing. He could really live like a king down there, take a very early retirement, but I doubt he could ever leave the good ol’ USA…it’s just too good, here. I’m quite sure he has entertained buying a place there, just to have.

On qx.2, I’m pretty sure that would be just one of those things, as far as he’s concerned. It sure didn’t cause him to love his deceased wife any less. He simply adored her, and would have given his own life for her to live. He really does have an excellent track record at marriage.

Others have mentioned that he is probably just interested only in her ‘hot’ body or her beautiful looks. I have to be careful here, ‘cause he’s probably looked at this thread a time or two, but she is not exactly a beauty queen. She’s kinda’ heavy, short and not exactly the prettiest girl around. Now, it’s not that I don’t think she’s pretty, I really can’t say, I’ve only seen her pictures, and you know what the camera can do. He thinks she’s beautiful, so before I get my butt kicked, I better leave it there.

I am fascinated by the responses on this thread, and all are certainly food for thought. I was sure that all responses would be very negative. I haven’t counted, but there does seem to be at least a few respondants who do seem to think that under some conditions, such a marriage would be fine. Next time I see my friend, I’m gonna ask him what he thinks of these posters comments. I do think that they may be an accurate indication of what he would experience in real life.

 

[Island_Oak]

cargopilot:

He has dated some, but found himself very disillusioned with the typical American female… He lives in a tiny house, drives a junky old car, and spends every penny like it’s his last. But he makes a LOT of money, and has a HUGE nest-egg.

Does anyone find themselves surprised to learn that the only person this guy could attract, living like and giving off the appearance of being a pauper, is a teenager from the 3d world?! What woman in her right mind would deduce that he could be a stable provider with whom to bear children and make a home given how he presents himself?!

There are plenty of age-appropriate (30-something) women who are very traditional in their lifestyle, values and faith who are available to marry in this country. He sounds like he needs to do some major work on himself before he considers marriage to anyone–much less an underage foreigner. And personally, the thought of marrying someone who wasn’t even alive when I left for college creeps me out.

 

[bluerose]

For what it’s worth…

My brother-in-law married for the first time when he was thirty-seven. His wife was eighteen.

They had almost ten wonderful years and three children together when she died of Primary Pulmonary Hypertension at the age of twenty-eight.

And, no, she didn’t come from a poverty-stricken third world country either.

I guess what I’m saying is, only the parties involved know if they are truly compatible and truly love each other. True, the young lady needs to be legally an adult (although in some states, with parental permission, I believe she can get married at sixteen) but other than that, I don’t see that the age difference should be the main focus.

Just my two cents’ worth…

BlueRose

 

[Pug]

Does anyone find themselves surprised to learn that the only person this guy could attract, living like and giving off the appearance of being a pauper, is a teenager from the 3d world?!

Well, this reasoning resonates some with me, but I must admit I’d be in a pickle if my spouse died. Currently, I don’t know anyone who’d be an eligible replacement who is Actually Catholic and not divorced. I’d have to go out of the faith or else look around on the internet, in other parishes, etc. Of course, I do know a few younger people, and plenty of seniors, but I’m excluding them. Oh, if I went out of my language base, maybe. We’ve got some new parishioners who speak another language, but I don’t know any of them.

I suspect that this guy is not encountering many eligibles in his working environment or regular haunts. If I were a pilot, I’d bid on a different shift, perhaps, to see what turned up on a different route or type of plane (of course this would alter how much money he will get). I’m not saying this guy should, as he has found someone.

 

[Karin]

Pug:

Well, this reasoning resonates some with me, but I must admit I’d be in a pickle if my spouse died. Currently, I don’t know anyone who’d be an eligible replacement who is Actually Catholic and not divorced…

**Well if you did find someone and they were divorced you can still marry them if they got an annulment so all hope is not lost. But knock on wood that you never have to worry about this **

 

[Pug]

**Well if you did find someone and they were divorced you can still marry them if they got an annulment so all hope is not lost. **

You’re right. I was assuming this. But actually, now that I think on it, of the people who I know who are divorced, I haven’t ever asked them if they got an annulment or not. I suppose if I were on the prowl I’d have to step up to the plate! I’m not real big on asking personal questions.

 

[cargopilot]

Island Oak:

Does anyone find themselves surprised to learn that the only person this guy could attract, living like and giving off the appearance of being a pauper, is a teenager from the 3d world?! What woman in her right mind would deduce that he could be a stable provider with whom to bear children and make a home given how he presents himself?!

There are plenty of age-appropriate (30-something) women who are very traditional in their lifestyle, values and faith who are available to marry in this country. He sounds like he needs to do some major work on himself before he considers marriage to anyone–much less an underage foreigner. And personally, the thought of marrying someone who wasn’t even alive when I left for college creeps me out.

Hi Island Oak,

Those are some nice comments, to be sure. So he’s thrifty. Is that bad? He just isn’t out to keep up with the Jones’.

As I said earlier, he’s very nice looking and physically fit, hilarious sense of humor, fluent in second and third languages, college grad, former military officer and an airline transport pilot. Do you know what a seasoned ATP makes? Now combine a great salary and benefits with one who does not need a new BMW every other year, with excellent mastery of finance, and you’re talking one rich dude.

He has many, many opportunities with the ladies, of all ages, but doesn’t play the field. He isn’t divorced, he had a great marriage of many years, but she died, and he never had any children, but wants them very much. Now, I want you to understand that truly Catholic females that are single or widowed in the age you prescribe are very, very rare. You see, the good ones are married. He does NOT want a divorced wife. He understands that he CANNOT enter into a sacramental marriage with a divorced female, and that is the specification, period.

He’s not divorced, and INSISTS on nothing less. You just have to realize that there is no shortage of divorced females who are ‘gonna’ get an ‘annulment’, but precious few who actually have. Of those, most if not all, have the psycological impact of a failed marriage.

If you know where this ‘surplus’ of thirty-somethings who meet this criteria actually is, I invite you to bring 'em on.

You see, it’s truly a lonley world for anyone, male or female, of this age, who insist simply on someone who is Catholic and able to marry in the Church.

Unless you’ve walked a mile in those shoes, you just can’t understand. All I can say is, I thank God every day for my wonderful wife, and I don’t have to walk THAT mile.

 

[Tasha]

Hi cargopilot,

This thread is so interesting! I have a few more questions.
How long was your friend married? Why didn’t he have children then?

In my most humble opinion I think this marriage could work if:

1. These two really do love each other.
2. Her parents approve of the relationship.
3. The parents aren’t selling out their daughter in the name of greed.
4. They get pre-marital counseling (they must, of course).
5. The Church approves.
6. Your friend is willing to accept that there can be unforseen circumstances such as: She MIGHT not be able to bear children, she could leave him, die, etc. All the things that can happen in ANY marriage, no matter the age difference.
7. He’s willing to deal with any possible nasty gossip or comments.
8. Last, that they didn’t meet in an “untasteful” way. What I mean is, that he wasn’t following her around trying to talk to her or something that would be acceptable if they were the same age.
   I know that’s not clear. I hope you get what I mean.

And my last question: What DOES a seasoned ATP make? I have a friend that’s interested in persuing this as a career. So we’re wondering…

Thanks, Tasha

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

Originally Posted by cargopilot
He has dated some, but found himself very disillusioned with the typical American female… He lives in a tiny house, drives a junky old car, and spends every penny like it’s his last. But he makes a LOT of money, and has a HUGE nest-egg.

He’s cheap. Naturally an older American female would’nt buy that.

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

Lilyofthevalley:

Originally Posted by cargopilot
He has dated some, but found himself very disillusioned with the typical American female… He lives in a tiny house, drives a junky old car, and spends every penny like it’s his last. But he makes a LOT of money, and has a HUGE nest-egg.

He’s cheap. Naturally an older American female would’nt buy that.

But on the other hand, at least he won’t be bothered by golddiggers who are only after his money. If you fall in love with someone, and then find out he has lots of money, that’s just icing on the cake (assuming he’s ever willing to spend any of it ). But if the money is the primary or only factor in the “attraction”, then it’s just not enough.

cargopilot:

If you know where this ‘surplus’ of thirty-somethings who meet this criteria actually is, I invite you to bring 'em on.

Well, I’m a little too old to have children, but at least I’m not divorced.

You see, it’s truly a lonley world for anyone, male or female, of this age, who insist simply on someone who is Catholic and able to marry in the Church.

Unless you’ve walked a mile in those shoes, you just can’t understand.

I understand, as I’ve walked my entire adult life in those shoes.

Slim Pickins, proud member of:
Crazy Internet Junkies Society
Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag

 

[Black_Jaque]

Man o’live, some of the venom you gal’s spew is unreal!

You jump to the conclusion that this guy is looking for some easy outlet for his sexual passions. Or is some control freak.

1. What kind of a husband was he in the first marriage? It sounds like he stuck by her side through a hell most of us can’t imagine.
2. If he’s some sleezebag looking for a “teen-bean” I highly doubt he would come home and not be able to stop talking about her.

If anything from the evidence I see in this case, the real danger here is that he’ll put her on a pedestal. It will be so easy for her to get whatever she wants for a period of time that she’ll learn some bad habits. Yes the real danger is he’ll end up treating her like a daughter.

Not that, that’s a very real danger either. How faithful are they to the Lord? God can get them through any problems they have.

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

But on the other hand, at least he won’t be bothered by golddiggers who are only after his money. If you fall in love with someone, and then find out he has lots of money, that’s just icing on the cake (assuming he’s ever willing to spend any of it ). But if the money is the primary or only factor in the “attraction”, then it’s just not enough.

Sorry, but even if he does have money and if he’s a cheap skate there is no icing on the cake. Being thrifty is one thing being a cheap skate is another.

 

[Black_Jaque]

Lily,

Yes there’s a difference between being thrifty and a cheap-skate. How do you know he’s cheap based on what was reported on this thread?

Just because he doesn’t spend the money on himself doesn’t make him cheap.

Again, what was he like in his first marriage?

 

[cargopilot]

Tasha:

Hi cargopilot,

This thread is so interesting! I have a few more questions.
How long was your friend married? Why didn’t he have children then?

In my most humble opinion I think this marriage could work if:

1. These two really do love each other.

I believe he loves her, based on our discussions. I can’t comment about her.

1. Her parents approve of the relationship.

They do. I’m told they are quite pleased with the idea. The age difference doesn’t have nearly the same stigma attached as here.

1. The parents aren’t selling out their daughter in the name of greed.

I don’t believe they were involved in the discussions, until later. The idea of moving them here and his helping the Dad and brothers start a business came later.

1. They get pre-marital counseling (they must, of course).

They will. I don’t know if it’s the same as here, but it is required, none the less.

1. The Church approves.

She does. I’m told the Priest there has indicated that.

1. Your friend is willing to accept that there can be unforseen circumstances such as: She MIGHT not be able to bear children, she could leave him, die, etc. All the things that can happen in ANY marriage, no matter the age difference.

Of course. No one knows what the future holds, and he has realistic expectations. You have to remember he stuck with his deceased wife all through some years of serious illness, and she was unable to have any children survive to term.

1. He’s willing to deal with any possible nasty gossip or comments.

Good question. He realizes that there would be no shortage of that. Could he deal with that? I don’t know. That is one of the biggest stumbling blocks.

1. Last, that they didn’t meet in an “untasteful” way. What I mean is, that he wasn’t following her around trying to talk to her or something that would be acceptable if they were the same age.
   I know that’s not clear. I hope you get what I mean.

He met the whole family at some kind of local parish festival, some time ago. As time went on, it just sort of, happened.

And my last question: What DOES a seasoned ATP make? I have a friend that’s interested in persuing this as a career. So we’re wondering…

A pilot makes chicken-feed until he/she gets that ATP certificate and a type rating in a jet. Then an experienced ATP with plenty of hours of turbine time earns a solid six-figures, plus benefits. The down side is living out of a suitcase, in motels, usually alone.

Thanks, Tasha