Age gaps in dating/marriage - how far would you go/have gone?

[ToeInTheWater]

1. By no means. But I can go out on a 21-mile bicycle ride on hilly Alabama roads and bring it home in less than an hour and a half. There are people my age who can do that, but they are few and far between. The percentage of 40-year-olds who can keep up with me is certainly higher, but I’d be surprised if it was out of single digits. Why do I beat myself up like this? Because as my wife’s health (COPD and diabetes) deteriorates, I’ll need to be increasingly fit to do the physical work that will be necessary to take care of her.
2. I’m not dismissing that idea, but in rural Alabama women who my age who can keep up with me are extremely rare. Eligible Catholic women my age who can keep up with me? Kidding, right?

I would point out that this is all extremely hypothetical. My wife is still very much alive. Also, I did say that I would probably not remarry. Overall, marriage has not been a fun gig for me, and it’s not one that I would look forward to repeating.

Oh, and all the Austen references? Let’s bear in mind that these are fictional depictions, which, even if they are a faithful representation of societal reality, deal with the aristocracy, not real people.

Thanks for the clarifications. In your case, it does seem that you are mostly considering hypotheticals, but even then, it seems that if you were, for example, to suddenly suffer a stroke or some kind of accident, you wouldn’t be looking for a younger woman to “keep up” with you. The kind of man who are attracted to younger women more in a fetish-y way, probably would.

Also, I will point out that the Austen books do not, technically, deal with the “aristocracy” that much, but more with what would now be considered the upper middle class. The highest ranking families, the Elliots and Bertrams, are still merely baronets, who were essentially considered Aristocrat-Lite, they did not even merit inclusion in the Book of Peers, but were consigned to the Baronetage.

Anyway, I was mostly using the Austen books to illustrate that even in a time and class in which large age gap marriages were more common, they were still considered problematic in some ways, as a way to counter the “but women have been marrying older men for generations, it’s completely normal, nothing to see here” argument.

 

[DaveBj]

It is indeed interesting that many of the men who have expressed a preference for younger women have described themselves as young for their age. Of course, they only retain the GOOD aspects of youth, physical vigor and vitality, and have long passed by the less positive aspects of immaturity, inexperience, selfishness, etc. Or have they?

snip

I speak ONLY for myself, but I did not make it all the way to the end of my 7th decade by being immature and stupid.

 

[Xantippe]

Oh, and all the Austen references? Let’s bear in mind that these are fictional depictions, which, even if they are a faithful representation of societal reality, deal with the aristocracy, not real people.

Not aristocracy usually, generally just country gentry.

It is fiction, but it does give an idea of what societal ideals were. For instance, in contemporary US culture, you aren’t going to see a lot of romantic comedies set in the present where the heroine is 18 and the hero is 28, because for us, there would be a big squick factor.

So, mainstream fiction is generally bound by the rules of the society it describes, in a way that real people aren’t. (Example: Anna Nicole Smith’s marriage to an 80-something would not be the subject of a serious cinematic love story in our culture, although it might get played for low humor.)

 

[Xantippe]

Anyway, I was mostly using the Austen books to illustrate that even in a time and class in which large age gap marriages were more common, they were still considered problematic in some ways, as a way to counter the “but women have been marrying older men for generations, it’s completely normal, nothing to see here” argument.

Exactly.

And the Austen books also problematize young marriage for women. There are a number of female characters who rushed into fairly early marriage, but then were overwhelmed by the burdens of domesticity, motherhood, and tighter and tighter finances with each addition to the family.

That only happens in books, right CAFers?

 

[DaveBj]

Not aristocracy usually, generally just country gentry.

It is fiction, but it does give an idea of what societal ideals were. For instance, in contemporary US culture, you aren’t going to see a lot of romantic comedies set in the present where the heroine is 18 and the hero is 28, because for us, there would be a big squick factor.

So, mainstream fiction is generally bound by the rules of the society it describes, in a way that real people aren’t. (Example: Anna Nicole Smith’s marriage to an 80-something would not be the subject of a serious cinematic love story in our culture, although it might get played for low humor.)

Au contraire, I’ve seen more than one entertainment article in the newspapers/magazines decrying the relatively large number of movies where the romantic male lead is played by an actor in his 40s/50s, while the female romantic lead in played by an actress in her 20s. (And if I were cast in one of those movies, it would be as the grumpy old neighbor )

 

[Xantippe]

Au contraire, I’ve seen more than one entertainment article in the newspapers/magazines decrying the relatively large number of movies where the romantic male lead is played by an actor in his 40s/50s, while the female romantic lead in played by an actress in her 20s. (And if I were cast in one of those movies, it would be as the grumpy old neighbor )

Can you name one set in the present where the heroine is 18ish and the hero is 28ish?

Because I think it is very natural for us to be leery of that scenario, as it would feel like the hero is stealing from the heroine the possibility of having experiences and freedom that he himself undoubtedly enjoyed from 18-28.

 

[pianistclare]

You know, come to think of it, I’d also LOVE to hear from people in relationships where the wife is actually older than the husband, as such an age gap seems even more taboo than the opposite. But as I mentioned, one of my aunts married a man about ten years younger. I also know a couple where the woman was in her early 20s and the man 19, and also a couple where the woman is past 40 and the man around 35.
QUOTE]

I might have already answered, but I’m 11 years older than my hubs. Second marriage, I was a widow, he was never married, so no annulment issues or baby-mama-drama.
It’s been wonderful. We have oodles in common. We love the same music.
People used to tell me I looked younger than I was…all the time. I suspect I am finally beginning to look my age, mostly due to developing a bad knee. Joe says I can keep up with him fine.
In many ways, I’m kind of the head of the household. He lived many years with an elderly father, worked, and dad had dinner ready, a grocery list drawn up, things like that. But Joe worked outside of the house, and also kept up a cattle farm. He’s bored to tears now, unemployed and wishing he still had cattle. But we are completely compatible in numerous ways. He doesn’t seem “young” to me. I rarely think about it, and I would say he never does. If he had any fears about marrying an older woman, he’s certainly never said anything about them.

 

[Xantippe]

ToeInTheWater;12636876:

You know, come to think of it, I’d also LOVE to hear from people in relationships where the wife is actually older than the husband, as such an age gap seems even more taboo than the opposite. But as I mentioned, one of my aunts married a man about ten years younger. I also know a couple where the woman was in her early 20s and the man 19, and also a couple where the woman is past 40 and the man around 35.
QUOTE]

I might have already answered, but I’m 11 years older than my hubs. Second marriage, I was a widow, he was never married, so no annulment issues or baby-mama-drama.
It’s been wonderful. We have oodles in common. We love the same music.
People used to tell me I looked younger than I was…all the time. I suspect I am finally beginning to look my age, mostly due to developing a bad knee. Joe says I can keep up with him fine.
In many ways, I’m kind of the head of the household. He lived many years with an elderly father, worked, and dad had dinner ready, a grocery list drawn up, things like that. But Joe worked outside of the house, and also kept up a cattle farm. He’s bored to tears now, unemployed and wishing he still had cattle. But we are completely compatible in numerous ways. He doesn’t seem “young” to me. I rarely think about it, and I would say he never does. If he had any fears about marrying an older woman, he’s certainly never said anything about them.

Off-topic:

I wonder if it would be possible for him to get some cow-sitting gigs?

Farmers go on vacation, too.

 

[MJJean]

pianistclare;12637337:

Off-topic:

I wonder if it would be possible for him to get some cow-sitting gigs?

Farmers go on vacation, too.

There’s probably a message board or something somewhere for just that! If there’s not, start one! There are probably people with livestock who’d love to go on vacation and never could because they have no one to care for their animals.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

pianistclare, thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut! Could I also ask how old you were when you met your husband? From what you’ve posted so far, seems neither of you were spring chickens, and certainly were far removed from being a teenager.

I think there are two related but different issues here; the absolute age gap in numbers, and also factors that ameliorate the age gap. A 10 year age gap between an 18 year old and a 28 year old, I think is more problematic than a 20 year age gap between a 30 year old and a 50 year old. And by this I am referring the average 18 year old, not an “old soul” 18 year old who has a personality and/or experiences that make for greater life experience and maturity.

 

[pianistclare]

pianistclare, thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut! Could I also ask how old you were when you met your husband? From what you’ve posted so far, seems neither of you were spring chickens, and certainly were far removed from being a teenager.

I think there are two related but different issues here; the absolute age gap in numbers, and also factors that ameliorate the age gap. A 10 year age gap between an 18 year old and a 28 year old, I think is more problematic than a 20 year age gap between a 30 year old and a 50 year old. And by this I am referring the average 18 year old, not an “old soul” 18 year old who has a personality and/or experiences that make for greater life experience and maturity.

“spring chickens”

Thanks.

Srsly though, he was 46 when we married, met when he was 44…check out my profile pic and see if you think I look my age. LOL

 

[DaveBj]

Can you name one set in the present where the heroine is 18ish and the hero is 28ish?

Because I think it is very natural for us to be leery of that scenario, as it would feel like the hero is stealing from the heroine the possibility of having experiences and freedom that he himself undoubtedly enjoyed from 18-28.

Gigi. I’m extending “the present” back to the early 20th century, and the age gap between the title character and Gaston was a heck of a lot wider that 18-28.

Great Balls of Fire, which dealt in part with Jerry Lee Lewis’s (then 22) marriage to Myra Gale Brown (then 13), his first cousin once removed. (However, inclusion of this movie might be stretching the definitions of “hero” and “heroine.”

Twilight, featuring a romance between 17-year-old Bella and 108-year-old Cullen.

By no means am I hip to modern pop culture, but here are three that I was able to come up with, two from memory and one with a little help from Google.

 

[Xantippe]

Gigi. I’m extending “the present” back to the early 20th century, and the age gap between the title character and Gaston was a heck of a lot wider that 18-28.

That was 100 years ago.

Great Balls of Fire, which dealt in part with Jerry Lee Lewis’s (then 22) marriage to Myra Gale Brown (then 13), his first cousin once removed. (However, inclusion of this movie might be stretching the definitions of “hero” and “heroine.”

**That was 56 years ago, and the real life relationship was a career killer for Jerry Lee Lewis.

“The publicity caused an uproar and the tour was cancelled after only three concerts. The scandal followed Lewis home to the U.S. and, as a result, he was blacklisted from radio and almost vanished from the music scene.”

“Lewis was still under contract with Sun Records, and kept recording, regularly releasing singles. He had gone from $10,000 a night concerts to $250 a night spots in beer joints and small clubs.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Lee_Lewis**

Twilight, featuring a romance between 17-year-old Bella and 108-year-old Cullen.

By no means am I hip to modern pop culture, but here are three that I was able to come up with, two from memory and one with a little help from Google.

OK–getting warmer with the Twilight.

I think a lot of people are squicked out by that aspect of the Bella-Edward relationship, though.

 

[Luvz2travel]

Well to each his own. I never like guys who were significantly older in the romantic sense. It’s always felt creepy to me when a guy 15 years plus older than me showed interest. Same on the younger end. I dated one guy who was 13 years older…he only looked 8 years older than me max. He kept calling me young lady … I dated a guy 8 years younger that didn’t work either though it didn’t feel creepy at all Most of the guys I’ve dated have been younger by a few years 2 or three on average. The last guy I went out with was 5 years younger. Now the only ones that express interest are 20 plus years older …no thanks. I still have a laugh at the 50 year old guys who decided at 50 plus they want a family and expect the 20 something girls to be interested. My age preference is 5 years either way but not more then 10 years older and even 10 years older is pushing it for me. Everyone has a right to their preferences I guess but I’m still single and no one is interested at the moment so what do I know. If it works for you and age doesn’t bother you go for it.

 

[DaveBj]

Great Balls of Fire, which dealt in part with Jerry Lee Lewis’s (then 22) marriage to Myra Gale Brown (then 13), his first cousin once removed. (However, inclusion of this movie might be stretching the definitions of “hero” and “heroine.”

That was 56 years ago, and the real life relationship was a career killer for Jerry Lee Lewis.

Hey, I was alive then. That makes it “the present” as far as I’m concerned

Edit: You probably won’t accept Coal Miner’s Daughter, because it’s not quite the 10-year gap that you specified (15-22), and because 1948 isn’t the “present” to you, but it was to me.

 

[Luvz2travel]

By the way I remember Georgia Okeefe was in a relationship and married to a guy 30 or 40 years older and kept getting involved with even younger women and he eventually settled with a girl 50 years younger. He was Arthur Steglitz maybe not sure on the name. Can’t imagine the thought of that much of a difference.

 

[IrishAm]

My rule of thumb (as a mature woman, not a 12-year-old ): Date no one older than half way between my age and my mom’s; no younger than half way between my age and my eldest child’s.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

DaveBJ, have you actually watched Gigi? I have, and I hated the whole premise. Yes, yes, Gaston turns out to be not quite the rake most people in French society think he is, and does marry Gigi at the end. BUT this was only after Gigi agreed to give up all her principles and become his mistress, something she does expecting him to eventually discard her, which was one of the reasons she initially refused him. I also never got the sense that Gaston actually loved Gigi. It was essentially a sanitized, halfway-modernized version of Fielding’s Pamela, that was even satirized in its own time in the work Shamela.

So I wouldn’t even consider that show as featuring a “hero” and “heroine”. Also, as Xantippe has noted, that was actually set in a society about 100 years in the past from now; yes the movie came out in the 1950s, but it was actually set at the turn of the century.

As for Twilight, I don’t think it quite counts because Edward is supposedly frozen exactly as he was in terms of maturity, brain development (other than his vampire supernatural abilities), etc., as when he was 17 years old. Bella doesn’t really see him as older, indeed she really angsts over eventually becoming older than Edward is. Even the squickiness of the werewolves “imprinting” on little kids and eventually courting and marrying them, is moderated somewhat, as they will also never age as long as they keep “phasing” into their wolf forms on a regular basis.

 

[DaveBj]

DaveBJ, have you actually watched Gigi? I have, and I hated the whole premise. Yes, yes, Gaston turns out to be not quite the rake most people in French society think he is, and does marry Gigi at the end. BUT this was only after Gigi agreed to give up all her principles and become his mistress, something she does expecting him to eventually discard her, which was one of the reasons she initially refused him. I also never got the sense that Gaston actually loved Gigi. It was essentially a sanitized, halfway-modernized version of Fielding’s Pamela, that was even satirized in its own time in the work Shamela.

snip

Yes, I saw it a lo-o-ong time ago. I thought had quite the ick factor even then.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Yes, I saw it a lo-o-ong time ago. I thought had quite the ick factor even then.

DaveBj, thanks for conceding that. Interestingly, it seems that unlike most other relationship and sex taboos, it seems that “May-December” type relationships, certainly ones where the younger partner is a teenager, have actually become LESS acceptable in most “modern” societies than they used to be. Note that even Game of Thrones, which certainly hasn’t been shy in adapting sexuality to the screen, actually aged up the younger characters, though this may have been mostly for legal reasons, as the series is shot mostly in the UK where apparently, depicting any character whose age is considered under the age of consent in the modern UK, in a sexual situation, is actually illegal, even if the production is set in an medieval alternate universe.

Yet, although Gigi wasn’t actually set in the 1950s, it was still considered suitable for “family entertainment” back then. Even though the story involves Gigi’s older relatives actually training and grooming her to be attractive to Gaston, not as a wife, but as a mistress. Sure the sexual aspects were minimized in the film, but I doubt anyone could sell to any mainstream film producer today, the idea that “a family pimps their teenage daughter out to a much older man, and this predatory relationship is magically transformed into True Love through the power of…True Love! That’s a surefire Oscar!” Yet, Gigi actually was awarded one.

As for Coal Miner’s Daughter, the real Loretta Lynn actually suffered a LOT in her marriage, her husband cheated on her repeatedly and apparently was an alcoholic. Something she expresses in this quote (source is Wikipedia, but quote is sourced from her autobiography).

I married Doo when I wasn’t but a child, and he was my life from that day on. But as important as my youth and upbringing was, there’s something else that made me stick to Doo. He thought I was something special, more special than anyone else in the world, and never let me forget it. That belief would be hard to shove out the door. Doo was my security, my safety net. And just remember, I’m explainin’, not excusin’ … Doo was a good man and a hard worker. But he was an alcoholic, and it affected our marriage all the way through.

Doesn’t exactly seem like she’s advising her readers to follow her example. So yeah, can’t take that as a shining example of an age gap marriage, either. Also, her husband was only 6 years older than her.