Agonizing Decision. Advice sought

[RWTruthseeker]

I am seeking thoughtful advice about how I should respond to a situation in my home parish. I am truly agonizing over what a Godly response would look like.

The question in my mind concerns the role of non-ordained leaders in the liturgy.

Are Liturgical Ministers of Music to be considered part of the faithful who should live according to Catholic moral principles, or are they basically paid employees who perform in the liturgy?

Case in point:

• A married homosexual is in charge of the choirs, musicians, and cantors. He is discreet and lives in another town, so most parishioners are likely unaware.
• He has also hired a couple of other homosexual musicians who perform at Mass. They are very talented and friendly; and they, too, are discreet in the parish context about their lives.

However, they are involved in the “Gay Community”, support Same-Sex Unions, and participate in homosexual organizations that are not affiliated with the Church.

Do you believe this is an acceptable or unacceptable situation in the parish?

Should practicing homosexuals be permitted to lead the sacred music during the liturgy so long as they do not publicly advance their views during the Mass or other parish functions?

Would you personally address the issue in some way? (I believe the Senior Priest knows of the Minister of Music’s situation and has kept it quiet).

Would you quietly seek out another parish to attend?

Please help. I await you thoughts.

 

[Maximilian75]

(I believe the Senior Priest knows of the Minister of Music’s situation and has kept it quiet).

I would say to bring this concern to him.

IMO, this is improper, and I would say this if it was someone actively cheating on a spouse or actively involved in a Ponzi scheme or something.

If the pastor does not act, I would say that you are within your rights to quietly leave, yes.

 

[po18guy]

The potential for scandal is high. Words fail us, but prayer is always efficacious. That, and patience.

 

[1ke]

The GIRM envisions that these ministries (and it call them that) are fulfilled by lay faithful. Not hired musicians, certainly not non-Catholics. And that they are suited to the role (i.e. living the Catholic faith as others who serve in liturgical ministries).

http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-wor...uction-of-the-roman-missal/girm-chapter-3.cfm

I would bring it up with the pastor privately and share my concerns regarding a non-practicing person living openly in opposition to the Catholic faith having a liturgical role and leadership role in the parish. I would then bring it to the parish council and either the dean of the Deanery or the diocesan vicar of clergy if the pastor doesn’t handle the situation.

This gives grave scandal.

 

[Gorgias]

I would then bring it to the parish council and either the dean of the Deanery or the diocesan vicar of clergy if the pastor doesn’t handle the situation.

The parish council? How would they be able to address the situation, if the pastor knows and does not address it?

 

[1ke]

The parish council? How would they be able to address the situation, if the pastor knows and does not address it?

Yes, the parish council. Because they are a consultative body to the pastor. And sometimes a pastor needs to hear things from more than one person in order for the seriousness and impact on the parish to sink in.

 

[Gorgias]

And sometimes a pastor needs to hear things from more than one person in order for the seriousness and impact on the parish to sink in.

Ahh… I understand what you’re saying. That would put the council (pastoral council, I suppose you mean?) in a difficult position, wouldn’t it? And, AFAIK, that’s not really in its mandate, is it?

 

[Augustinian]

Paid employees are hired by the church, and they aren’t necessarily Catholic- they are competent to do the job which they are hired to do. A Catholic friend of mine in school used to mow the church yard for the local Presbyterian assembly.

Jobs performing music exist in all sorts of churches and synagogues, not just Catholic.

The real solution is to devise a musical program that the current people in the parish are able to execute without hired help.

 

[angel12]

I agree with 1ke – if you’re determined to pursue this, the parish council should be your first stop, before going higher.

 

[HolySpirit1]

Well Truthseeker, you can either out these men, and cause a ton of drama in your parish, or you can let it go and leave it between the priest of the parish and God. If you choose to out them, at least do it as public as possible and wait till they are in the church at the same time and make a scene either before or after mass. An record it an post it to youtube. Title it something like, saving my parish from homosexuals.

 

[1ke]

As to the topic at hand, OP, do you go around digging up dirt on all parishioners and volunteers or just the ones you deem to best the worst sinners?

Oh yes, try to turn this around on the OP. No,
She is not in the wrong to be concerned about this.

This person is in a same sex marriage. It is a public, known situation. It is not any different than any other public sin. Those in such situations are not suitable for ministry.

Shame on you for trying to shame the OP.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The whole idea of digging into the private life of people, especially the ones alleged to be gay but who are not married, sounds creepy to me.
As someone said, do you also track people who cheat on spouses, fornicate with the opposite sex, have addictions, etc?

Having said that, if I were truly concerned about the moral private life of the music minister, I’d make an appointment with my pastor to discuss it privately.

 

[1ke]

The whole idea of digging into the private life of people, especially the ones alleged to be gay but who are not married, sounds creepy to me.

Again trying to shame the OP as if she is doing something wrong. She clearly indicated that the leader is in a same sex marriage and all of them are active in gay organizations in a nearby town.

They are not hiding their orientation or their activities other than being “discreet” at her church.

It is not necessary to “dig” to know these things. If they are Out and active in gay organizations,
it is more likely than not that others know of their lifestyle.

Why are you assuming there is digging?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Again trying to shame the OP as if she is doing something wrong. She clearly indicated that the leader is in a same sex marriage and all of them are active in gay organizations in a nearby town.

Sorry, not sorry. I was raised that you don’t go minding other people’s business. If these people are truly not being discreet, then it’s a matter of public knowledge and the OP shouldn’t be presenting it as an "agonizing decision " like they alone and maybe the pastor are aware of this and the OP has to wrestle with whether to be the one to raise the issue.

I also don’t appreciate you trying to shame me for having an opinion. The OP may have a legitimate concern, but like I said if these people are so very public that it was obvious to the OP, quit presenting it as a hand-wringing “Big Reveal”.

 

[LoveTherese]

That the OP is concerned, and wants to know what the community of believers thinks on this Catholic forum appears to me a well discerned idea for help prior to approaching a priest.

 

[Reuben_J]

It is a cause for scandal. And since they are serving in the liturgy, you have good reason to be concerned.

Practicing homosexual is not the same as having homosexual tendency and therefore wrong in the eyes of the Church.

While we are not investigating people’s private life, being in the liturgy exposed oneself to public attention. It would be putting themselves in difficult situation to be public figures serving in the liturgy while openly living in sin and defying the Church’s teaching on it.

Edit:
The standard of not allowing openly sexually active homosexual priests in the church should be considered for the lay people too in the liturgy.

 

[1ke]

It would be putting themselves in difficult situation to be public figures serving in the liturgy while openly living in sin and defying the Church’s teaching on it.

And in our diocese, those employed by a parish or the diocese have to be living in conformity with the Catholic Church and its teaching for any/all liturgical, teaching, and leadership positions.

 

[Peeps]

This situation occurred in our parish, and it was pretty awful because the local media got hold of the story and in a nutshell, made our parish and the Catholic Church look like monsters. OTOH, a lot of Evangelical Protestant churches were impressed.

I know this sounds like “conspiracy-theory obsession,” but considering how often this same situation arises at churches all over the U.S., I personally believe these situations are planned in advance and orchestrated by secular gay advocacy groups for the specific purpose of causing discord in churches both Protestant and Catholic, but mainly Catholic.

There I said it, and I know many of you will disagree. All I ask is that you think about it and do your own online and real-life research before totally rejecting my theory.

As for dealing with it, here are my thoughts (and I am a church organist/pianist who plays at several parishes and also at Protestant churches):

1. Many more Catholics need to get their children involved in music lessons at a young age and parishes need to be giving young people regular opportunities to play/sing in the parish Masses as often as possible. We need to grow our musicians from infancy up! A once-a-year Youth Mass or Children’s Mass is not enough–the young musicians need to be involved in playing/singing at Mass throughout the year so that they gain experience and learn how to serve God and their fellow Christians through music…
2. Many more Catholics who can play/sing need to get over themselves, stop making excuses, take a deep breath, and volunteer to help provide the music for Masses.

 

[Reuben_J]

Reuben_J:

It would be putting themselves in difficult situation to be public figures serving in the liturgy while openly living in sin and defying the Church’s teaching on it.

And in our diocese, those employed by a parish or the diocese have to be living in conformity with the Catholic Church and its teaching for any/all liturgical, teaching, and leadership positions.

Totally agree. I remember those early days when one of our leaders (and we are not even employed) were having problem (financial scandal) in his life which was not resolved. Unfortunately it had come to our knowledge. After much deliberation, we asked him to step down from the leadership until such a time when he put his personal life in order.

So I can imagine what more if they are employed or even on the liturgy.

 

[Augustinian]

Many more Catholics who can play/sing need to get over themselves, stop making excuses, take a deep breath, and volunteer to help provide the music for Masses.

That’s certainly true, but a lot of the “need” for paid musical talent comes from the the choice of music, which is not easy for untrained people to sing.