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ElizabethPH
Guest
The only ah-men I hear is mine.
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patrick457
Guest
Epsilon and heta/ita are both transliterated as an “e” without distinction in Latin. For example:
IEsus
IoannEs
HellEnes (cf. Hellenica)
DiomedEs
HadEs
Uppercase e’s denote instances of ita in the original Greek.
In Classical Greek, ita probably sounded like the ey in “whey” or ai in “air”, hence its other name ‘eta’ or ‘heta’ (EY-ta). In Koine/NT Greek meanwhile, the sound changed to something like e in the French “fete” - the pronunciation eventually iotacized further in Byzantine and Dimotiki Greek.
According to the Japanese Orthodox vocabulary (which is based on Church Slavonic) this is indeed so, but Japanese Catholics and Protestants employ ??? (AH-men, with ah sounding like aah).
In addition, there is also some difference in how the Name of Jesus is transliterated:
Japanese Orthodox: Iisusu, from Slavonic Iisus
(Modern) Catholic and Protestant: Iesu
Catholic (traditional): Iezusu, from the Latin; still survives in the Japanese name for the Jesuits: Iezusu-Kai.
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patrick457
Guest
To think that I pronounced it correctly as PEH-KANS/PAY-kans.In Texas, it’s pronounced PEE-CANS.
In the Carolinas, it’s pronounced Pih-CANS.
In Kentucky and Indiana, it’s PEE-CANS
In the Midwest, it’s Pih-KAHNS.
Go figure.
This from a person who thought “mrs.” is “misters” and pronounced “segue” as “seg-YOU” in his childhood (I learned the ‘correct’ pronunciation recently upon seeing people misspell segue as “segway”, BTW)
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ProVobis
Guest
Opens up a whole world of mispronunciations. I’ve heard hors d’oeuvres pronounced as HORSE DIVERS.To think that I pronounced it correctly as PEH-kans.
This from a person who thought “mrs.” is “misters” and pronounced “segue” as “seg-YOU” in his childhood (I learned the ‘correct’ pronunciation recently upon seeing people misspell segue as “segway”, BTW)
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patrick457
Guest
Ah, hoar dovers!
One last thing. In the Philippines, we pronounce Feng Shui in the Cantonese form: foong soy, or if we take into account of v and f being merged with b and p: pung soy. Yeah, foreign people are odd for pronouncing it fung shway in the Mandarin manner.
EDIT: One last trip down memory lane. Just remembered the time I first encountered Latin in my grandma’s pre-VII Missal; I keep pronouncing the Latin like:
‘Pater noster, KEY es in CO-EH-LIS, sanctifiSEtur nomen tuum’ or ‘benedictus fructus ventris tui HEH-SUS’.
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daeve
Guest
I remembering singing it back then too…I have a mental picture of Mass in the cafeteria when we had so many parishioners there had to be 2 Masses at a time on Sundays. We didn’t exactly rock out, but it was pretty joyous.
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pnewton
Guest
Deep Texas and lived here my whole life. I say pa - CAHN.How do you say “pecan”?
In fact, I have five gallons that I need to get cracking.
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Janet1983
Guest
Well I’m a special case I guess. I don’t pay much attention to what the church I attend right now is doing. I just know that AH-men is normal for Latin and for German (I was raised there) and I never knew it any different until I got into contact with Americans.Just curious… which do you prefer? Sorry if my approximations are off:
howjsay.com/index.php?word=amen Here’s what the recording says: Ah-men and also American Ey-men. (I guess it’s an accent thing as well??)
EDIT: I’m asking because there’s a local parish which leans traditional, and maybe 1/3 of the congregation says Ah-men. Then I went to an (obviously traditional) Latin mass, where during mass it was Ah-men, but during the pre-mass rosary, in English, it was Ey-men. It’s just been on my mind lately
I guess I just adjust to whatever everybody else is doing in this case… It’s just a pronunciation anyway.
Concerning Latin… it throws me off over here. I have to actually concentrate to not pronounce it the way I was taught in Germany or even with an Italian twinge on it…
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graceandglory
Guest
No. I’m dead serious. I even played my guitar in folk Mass.Are you pulling our leg grace?
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This was the Great Amen of my childhood.
And it was a totally white parish.
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graceandglory
Guest
No the video is much better.Oh, I didn’t mean the lyrics, I meant the way they were singing it.
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graceandglory
Guest
“So be it” just sounds like, “yeah, whatever.”I guess if you had to translate it into English, it would be “so be it” or something like that. Any suggestions? Probably too late to include it in the new Mass translations, though.
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thistle
Guest
Ay-men came from a song in an American movie. Its a terrible pronunciation and frankly should be banned.
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pnewton
Guest
Banned in this forum or banned in public?
As I posted earlier, that pronunciation is in the Merriam-Webster dictionary. That makes it English.
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Petergee
Guest
Well, American English at least.
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thistle
Guest
It is American slang and has no place in the Church. Clergy and laity should not be allowed to use this sloppy pronunciation.
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ProVobis
Guest
I agree. AH-MEN should be liturgically if not ecclesiatically correct at all times.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Oh, for crying out loud. There aren’t enough actual abuses, we have to start cracking down on people who have a regional accent now?
I can understand the defense of correct pronunciation, as long as no one forgets that God allows accents as opporutunities for the exercise of charity.
(I will try to remember this when I hear people indulging in “modern” grammar, too.
)
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ljubim
Guest
I would like it if priests too used Ah-men
Only one mass I’ve ever been to did this happen… a Latin mass of course
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ProVobis
Guest
I wish someone would. Just like in baseball we need some foul lines drawn.
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