K
kellie
Guest
We do ???
- Status
K
kellie
Guest
You claim to believe Jesus was a prophet, but deny the reasons He gave for being on earth.
As for your pathetic words of wisdom saying we became sentimental, irrational and illogical, all I can say is we believe in the words of Jesus Himself, all written in the New Testament, and witnessed by His Apostles, and their followers, our Early Church Fathers.
I pray you will see the Truth one day
A
ahmadhassan
Guest
yes kellie you doWe do ???
D
dolphinlove
Guest
No we dont…
Poor Kellie, dont say such things admadhassan, Kellie might do something rash, like become a muslim…
I am Catholic – a peaceful faith in Christianity bringing you the truth about faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The East, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only Islam; the true face of Jesus Christ and God is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peace.
God is All-Knowing; His Revealed Book, the BIBLE; gives you the correct path to salvation.
A
ahmadhassan
Guest
No we dont…
Poor Kellie, dont say such things admadhassan, Kellie might do something rash, like become a muslim…
I am Catholic – a peaceful faith in Christianity bringing you the truth about faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The East, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only Islam; the true face of Jesus Christ and God is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peace.
God is All-Knowing; His Revealed Book, the BIBLE; gives you the correct path to salvation.
A
ASimpleSinner
Guest
Let us more carefully examine what is being admitted here… Namely:
What are the differences in what I write?
What are the differences in what I right?
What are the differences in what I write
What are th differences in what I write?
what are the differences in what I right?
what are the differenecs in what i write?
No two sentences the same - is there error beyind typographical nuances or typos? This is the same sort of “corruption” being admitted to.
What is telling is how widely the various scriptural texts have been disseminated from places and ages and yet fundamental agreement exists in translations and canons that were passed on independently of each other - witness the Vulgate and the Peshetta.
Could you perhaps offer an example of textual divergence so significant as to suggest difference in doctrinal matters? Examples of true corruptions that would lead us to believe or suspect that the very teachings offered in these texts have changed?
Bear in mind, we are not Protestants here. At least I am not. Our affinity for and affirmation of the Scripturs are not the singular base of our Catholic faith. A living breathing teaching authority that guides and directs the faithful in the form of the pappacy and all bishops in communion with such is foundational in our belief system.
So to really demonstrate theological straying, in a way that would be convincing to a Catholic would ALSO require a demonstration that the sciptures have been corrupted AND that the Faith we hold - and were practicing BEFORE St. Paul penned his first letter to bodies of EXISTING faithful who were recipients of his epistles… Well you would have to prove first one thing was taught and believed and then it was corrupted.
However such a task would be no small feat, and I don’t envy anyone who wished to undertake such. You would have to also demonstrate, for example, that St. Ignatius of Antioch - who likely recieved the faith from the Apostles - writings have also been “harmoniously corrupted”. That is to say you would have to demonstrate to us that not only did the scriptures get messed up simulstaneously in Persia, Greece, Rome, Egypt, etc, but the writings of the Fathers were also simultaneoulsy messed up in Persia, Greece, Rome, Egypt, etc.
When where and how do you propose this happened?
K
kellie
Guest
lol dolphin, I don’t think soNo we dont…
Poor Kellie, dont say such things admadhassan, Kellie might do something rash, like become a muslim…
I am Catholic – a peaceful faith in Christianity bringing you the truth about faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The East, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only Islam; the true face of Jesus Christ and God is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peace.
God is All-Knowing; His Revealed Book, the BIBLE; gives you the correct path to salvation.
As for you ahmad, I will paste for those who don’t go to that link, the rest of the paragraph…
In the concrete order of the present economy God had only to prevent any such alteration of the sacred texts as would put the Church in the moral necessity of announcing with certainty as the word of God what in reality was only a human utterance. Let us say, however, from the start, that the substantial tenor of the sacred text has not been altered, not withstanding the uncertainty which hangs over some more or less long and more or less important historical or dogmatical passages. Moreover–and this is very important–these alterations are not irremediable; we can at least very often, by studying the variants of the texts, eliminate the defective readings and thus re-establish the primitive text. This is the object of textual criticism.
newadvent.org/cathen/14530a.htm#IV
Linguistics may have been altered, which is due to us being human, but the meaning never has
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
May GodAllahYHWH bless you!
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi For information of all the members on this forum, I give here , **Articles of Faith **of Ahmadis, from: alislam.org/
First.
THE BELIEF IN THE
UNITY OF GOD
This seems to be a rather simple and elementary concept. It should not be difficult for anybody to understand the oneness of God, and there the matter seems to rest. But in fact there is far more to this than meets the eye. When one examines the concept of Unity in depth, the entire world of religion seems to revolve around this pivotal point. This belief influences man’s life in all its aspects. It also implies the negation of all else but God. So belief in the oneness of God is not the end-all of belief, but all other beliefs spring from this fountain-head of eternal truth. This also delivers a message of liberation from all other yokes and releases man from all obligations except such as are born out of his submission to God.
This article has been further elucidated from different angles, both in the Holy Quran and the traditions of the Holy Prophet of Islam. For instance, the declaration ‘La houl wala quat illa Billah’ (There is no all-encompassing power except Allah) opens up new windows for a deeper and wider understanding of Unity. It negates all fears other than the fear of God. The second part of the same brings to the focus of attention another very important aspect of Unity. i.e. that the power to achieve good is solely dependent on God, and that He is Master of all sources of strength and energy. Hence while the first part relates to the negative aspects of power, the second part relates to the positive.
In application to human actions, intentions and motivations etc., these two forces are all-encompassing. Man’s intentions and his subsequent actions are always guided and controlled either by fear or hope, and there is no exception to this rule. Those who do good deeds do so out of fear and hope, and those who indulge in vices are motivated by the same. The fears of non-believers belong to the negative ungodly category, and they shape their lives in accordance with these worldly fears. Sometimes they are afraid of earning the displeasure of monarchs and authorities, sometimes they are afraid of society in general or of despots and bullies. Again, sometimes they act evilly out of a fear of poverty and loss etc. So, in a world full of vices, a large part of human actions can be explained with reference to these fears.
The belief in Unity dispels these fears altogether and brings to one’s mind the importance of the fear of God, which means that one must not be afraid of the displeasure of the ungodly, but should always endeavour to avoid displeasing God, and shape one’s life according to that fear alone. In the positive sense, the same applies to all human motivations and consequent actions. Man always lives by some motive to please someone, himself being no exception. In fact, more often than not, he works to please himself even at the cost of those who are otherwise dear to him.
A more exaggerated form of this attitude renders man a worshipper of his own ego. To achieve his purpose, man has to please those on whom his pleasures depend. As such, again he has to constantly strive to win the favours of monarchs, authorities etc. What we are describing is the worst form of slavery. The hopes and fears of a slave are completely dependent on the whims. pleasures and displeasures of his master. But a godless man has not one master alone. Every other human being in relation to his personal interests can play as God to him. If you analyse the ultimate cause of social, moral or political evils, it is such human worship which destroys the peace of man’s mind, and society as a whole begins to deteriorate endlessly.
/COLOR]
First.
THE BELIEF IN THE
UNITY OF GOD
This seems to be a rather simple and elementary concept. It should not be difficult for anybody to understand the oneness of God, and there the matter seems to rest. But in fact there is far more to this than meets the eye. When one examines the concept of Unity in depth, the entire world of religion seems to revolve around this pivotal point. This belief influences man’s life in all its aspects. It also implies the negation of all else but God. So belief in the oneness of God is not the end-all of belief, but all other beliefs spring from this fountain-head of eternal truth. This also delivers a message of liberation from all other yokes and releases man from all obligations except such as are born out of his submission to God.
This article has been further elucidated from different angles, both in the Holy Quran and the traditions of the Holy Prophet of Islam. For instance, the declaration ‘La houl wala quat illa Billah’ (There is no all-encompassing power except Allah) opens up new windows for a deeper and wider understanding of Unity. It negates all fears other than the fear of God. The second part of the same brings to the focus of attention another very important aspect of Unity. i.e. that the power to achieve good is solely dependent on God, and that He is Master of all sources of strength and energy. Hence while the first part relates to the negative aspects of power, the second part relates to the positive.
In application to human actions, intentions and motivations etc., these two forces are all-encompassing. Man’s intentions and his subsequent actions are always guided and controlled either by fear or hope, and there is no exception to this rule. Those who do good deeds do so out of fear and hope, and those who indulge in vices are motivated by the same. The fears of non-believers belong to the negative ungodly category, and they shape their lives in accordance with these worldly fears. Sometimes they are afraid of earning the displeasure of monarchs and authorities, sometimes they are afraid of society in general or of despots and bullies. Again, sometimes they act evilly out of a fear of poverty and loss etc. So, in a world full of vices, a large part of human actions can be explained with reference to these fears.
The belief in Unity dispels these fears altogether and brings to one’s mind the importance of the fear of God, which means that one must not be afraid of the displeasure of the ungodly, but should always endeavour to avoid displeasing God, and shape one’s life according to that fear alone. In the positive sense, the same applies to all human motivations and consequent actions. Man always lives by some motive to please someone, himself being no exception. In fact, more often than not, he works to please himself even at the cost of those who are otherwise dear to him.
A more exaggerated form of this attitude renders man a worshipper of his own ego. To achieve his purpose, man has to please those on whom his pleasures depend. As such, again he has to constantly strive to win the favours of monarchs, authorities etc. What we are describing is the worst form of slavery. The hopes and fears of a slave are completely dependent on the whims. pleasures and displeasures of his master. But a godless man has not one master alone. Every other human being in relation to his personal interests can play as God to him. If you analyse the ultimate cause of social, moral or political evils, it is such human worship which destroys the peace of man’s mind, and society as a whole begins to deteriorate endlessly.
/COLOR]
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Continued from Post # 29.
From this point of view, when you cast another glance at the fundamental declaration, that ‘there is no God but Allah, the One and Only’, all these fears and hopes relating to objects other than God are dispelled, as if by the waving of a magic wand. In other words, by choosing one master alone, you are liberated from slavery to all others. To be a slave of such others as are themselves slaves to numberless gods is a poor bargain indeed. But that is not all. The gods that such people worship are many a time products of their own imagination, which can do them neither good nor harm. Most men, on the other hand, worship nothing but mortals like themselves, their own egos being supreme among them all. Hence each of them bows to numberless egotistic gods, their interests being at clash with each other, creating a situation which is the ultimate of chaos.
The Islamic concept of Unity also inculcates in man the realisation of the oneness of the human species, and does away with all such barriers as divide man into racial, ethnic and colour denominations. This gives birth to the universal concept of equality in Islam, which is its distinctive feature. Hence from the vantage point of God, all human beings, wherever and in whichever age they were born, stand equal in His sight. As will be demonstrated shortly, it is this fundamental which gives rise to all other fundamental beliefs and doctrines in Islam. As briefly mentioned before, Islam’s doctrine of Unity is absolute and unsplittable; it has no room for adding to the Godhead in any form. He has neither a father nor a mother, nor has He a spouse. For Him to give birth to sons and daughters is inconceivable.
Thanks
End of First Article of Faith
Continued from Post # 29.
From this point of view, when you cast another glance at the fundamental declaration, that ‘there is no God but Allah, the One and Only’, all these fears and hopes relating to objects other than God are dispelled, as if by the waving of a magic wand. In other words, by choosing one master alone, you are liberated from slavery to all others. To be a slave of such others as are themselves slaves to numberless gods is a poor bargain indeed. But that is not all. The gods that such people worship are many a time products of their own imagination, which can do them neither good nor harm. Most men, on the other hand, worship nothing but mortals like themselves, their own egos being supreme among them all. Hence each of them bows to numberless egotistic gods, their interests being at clash with each other, creating a situation which is the ultimate of chaos.
The Islamic concept of Unity also inculcates in man the realisation of the oneness of the human species, and does away with all such barriers as divide man into racial, ethnic and colour denominations. This gives birth to the universal concept of equality in Islam, which is its distinctive feature. Hence from the vantage point of God, all human beings, wherever and in whichever age they were born, stand equal in His sight. As will be demonstrated shortly, it is this fundamental which gives rise to all other fundamental beliefs and doctrines in Islam. As briefly mentioned before, Islam’s doctrine of Unity is absolute and unsplittable; it has no room for adding to the Godhead in any form. He has neither a father nor a mother, nor has He a spouse. For Him to give birth to sons and daughters is inconceivable.
Thanks
End of First Article of Faith
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
Second Article of Faith of Ahmadis
THE BELIEF IN THE
ANGELS
The existence of angels is a universally accepted doctrine in different countries and different religions. However, they are sometimes discussed under other titles, the distinction being only one of nomenclature. Similarly, the nature of angels is understood differently among the followers of different religions. Islam speaks of angels as celestial beings of a spiritual nature who have their own entity as persons. The major role they play is the transmission of messages from God to human beings. But they are misunderstood by many, even within Islam, as having human shape or some shape and form, which in fact is an inseparable idea from that of material existence. Matter must have shape and a well defined boundary. But spirit lies beyond the five dimensions of man’s understanding. One can only believe in the existence of spirit if he is a religious person; otherwise it is beyond his reach to conceive the shape and form of spirits. Perhaps to resolve this problem and to make it easier for man to visualise angels, they are sometimes mentioned in religious books as appearing to holy people in the form of human beings. Not only that; they are also known to have appeared to some messengers of God in the form of certain birds. The Holy Ghost appeared to Jesus in the form of a dove:
As soon as Jesus was baptised, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. (Matthew 3:16)
These various references found in religious books were perhaps largely responsible for the misperceptions about the form and nature of angels prevailing among the adherents of various religions. Out of angels, in some religions, deyotas and gods were created, while the original books may have only mentioned them as agencies specifically created by God for performing certain tasks in the universe; of this we have ample evidence in many divine books. So, it is not unlikely that some people misunderstand the significance of these statements and start treating angels as junior partners of God.
Let us now try to comprehend the nature of angels with reference only to the Quran and the traditions of the Holy Prophet of Islam, and not with reference to commonly held views. According to the Quran, the entire material universe as well as the entire religious universe is governed by some spiritual powers, which are referred to as angels. Although some angels are referred to as single persons – such as Gabriel, Michael or Israel – they in fact do not work alone. For each function there is one leader or one supreme angel who governs that function and under him work a host of angels, who are referred to in the Holy Quran as the Junood of the Lord. Whatever they do is completely subject to the will of God and the design that He has created for things. They cannot make the slightest deviation from the set course of functions allocated to them, or from the overall plan of things made by God.
According to the Quran, for each human being two angels are appointed to record good deeds and misdeeds, as the case may be. In this way the task of the angels is to organise the most intricate and profound system of recording. It does not mean that each has a book in his hand, jotting down in it whatever he observes. In fact, angels are responsible for a very complex system of registering the effect of man’s deeds on his soul and personality so that a good man develops a healthy soul and a bad man breeds an unhealthy one.
The soul as it is takes shape in every man till his death, needs a conscious organiser who transfers the effects of human thoughts, actions etc. to the soul. This is an intricate process not fully comprehended by man. However, we do partially witness this in the case of criminals acquiring a different visage from those of noble conduct. It is not at all impossible for anyone to observe such a difference, although it cannot be described in terms of black and white or other material terms. In fact, the administration of the huge universe, right from its inception through the entire course of the billions of years of its evolutionary history, requires an enormous organisation of constant attention and control. This is performed by innumerable angels, who literally govern the vast universe and its intricate system of laws, as agents of God.
Unquote
Thanks
Second Article of Faith of Ahmadis
THE BELIEF IN THE
ANGELS
The existence of angels is a universally accepted doctrine in different countries and different religions. However, they are sometimes discussed under other titles, the distinction being only one of nomenclature. Similarly, the nature of angels is understood differently among the followers of different religions. Islam speaks of angels as celestial beings of a spiritual nature who have their own entity as persons. The major role they play is the transmission of messages from God to human beings. But they are misunderstood by many, even within Islam, as having human shape or some shape and form, which in fact is an inseparable idea from that of material existence. Matter must have shape and a well defined boundary. But spirit lies beyond the five dimensions of man’s understanding. One can only believe in the existence of spirit if he is a religious person; otherwise it is beyond his reach to conceive the shape and form of spirits. Perhaps to resolve this problem and to make it easier for man to visualise angels, they are sometimes mentioned in religious books as appearing to holy people in the form of human beings. Not only that; they are also known to have appeared to some messengers of God in the form of certain birds. The Holy Ghost appeared to Jesus in the form of a dove:
As soon as Jesus was baptised, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. (Matthew 3:16)
These various references found in religious books were perhaps largely responsible for the misperceptions about the form and nature of angels prevailing among the adherents of various religions. Out of angels, in some religions, deyotas and gods were created, while the original books may have only mentioned them as agencies specifically created by God for performing certain tasks in the universe; of this we have ample evidence in many divine books. So, it is not unlikely that some people misunderstand the significance of these statements and start treating angels as junior partners of God.
Let us now try to comprehend the nature of angels with reference only to the Quran and the traditions of the Holy Prophet of Islam, and not with reference to commonly held views. According to the Quran, the entire material universe as well as the entire religious universe is governed by some spiritual powers, which are referred to as angels. Although some angels are referred to as single persons – such as Gabriel, Michael or Israel – they in fact do not work alone. For each function there is one leader or one supreme angel who governs that function and under him work a host of angels, who are referred to in the Holy Quran as the Junood of the Lord. Whatever they do is completely subject to the will of God and the design that He has created for things. They cannot make the slightest deviation from the set course of functions allocated to them, or from the overall plan of things made by God.
According to the Quran, for each human being two angels are appointed to record good deeds and misdeeds, as the case may be. In this way the task of the angels is to organise the most intricate and profound system of recording. It does not mean that each has a book in his hand, jotting down in it whatever he observes. In fact, angels are responsible for a very complex system of registering the effect of man’s deeds on his soul and personality so that a good man develops a healthy soul and a bad man breeds an unhealthy one.
The soul as it is takes shape in every man till his death, needs a conscious organiser who transfers the effects of human thoughts, actions etc. to the soul. This is an intricate process not fully comprehended by man. However, we do partially witness this in the case of criminals acquiring a different visage from those of noble conduct. It is not at all impossible for anyone to observe such a difference, although it cannot be described in terms of black and white or other material terms. In fact, the administration of the huge universe, right from its inception through the entire course of the billions of years of its evolutionary history, requires an enormous organisation of constant attention and control. This is performed by innumerable angels, who literally govern the vast universe and its intricate system of laws, as agents of God.
Unquote
Thanks
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Continued from the previous post.alislam.org/books/study-of-islam/angels.html
As far as the traditions go, we can comprehend to a degree the versatility of angels in being able to materialise in various forms or apparitions, which have no relation to their real form or existence, which is beyond man’s comprehension and has different dimensions from those known to us.
Once it is reported that a stranger suddenly entered the mosque where the founder of Islam was sitting along with his companions. This man approached the assembly, sat respectfully in the front row, and started to ask questions regarding the nature of Islam. Having finished his list of questions, he took leave and departed. Those present were amazed because first this man was a complete stranger who must have travelled some distance to reach the mosque. In small townships the knowledge of such visits does not remain a secret, and everybody seems to know who has arrived and for what purpose. In his case, the arrival was so sudden that it appeared mysterious. Secondly, there were no marks of a journey on his bearing or his clothes. A fresh looking gentleman, he was of immaculately clean dress. Moreover the manner in which he began to ask questions without any introduction, and his abrupt departure, was extremely unusual to say the least.
Before the companions of the Holy Prophet (sa) could say anything, the Holy Prophet (sa) himself informed them that the person had actually been the angel Gabriel, who had asked the leading questions so that the companions become acquainted with the facts contained in the answers given. Some companions ran out of the mosque to meet the angel in disguise, as they thought, but there was no trace of him anywhere. No-one in the township admitted to seeing such a man. As this incident is reported in the highly authentic books of tradition, we can safely infer that angels sometimes appear in ordinary human form for the purpose of discharging sundry errands. We find mention of angels in many other traditions, particularly in relation to the battles of Badr and Uhad, but it would be inappropriate perhaps to enter into a lengthy discourse on this issue.
As against the Quranic view explained above, almost in every country the commonly held view about angels among followers of various religions is more on the pattern of fairy tales than of them belonging to a celestial form of existence. They are said to have wings like birds or fairies, flapping them about as they fly from place to place. This misconcept is perhaps born out of over- much literalising of religious terminology, which is cryptic and has, most often, metaphorical allusions. Thus we also find mention in the Holy Quran of wings in relation to angels, which speaks of them as having wings in twos, threes and fours:
All praise belongs to Allah the Maker of the heavens and the earth, Who employs the angels as messengers, having wings, two, three and four. Surah Al-Fatir (Ch. 35, v. 2)
The Holy Quran has a very special style of elucidating all such passages where there lies a danger of obscurity – it does this with the help of other similar usages. About the wings, for instance, we also find these mentioned in relation to a son’s attitude towards his elderly parents. Building this subject, the Holy Quran admonishes the son to lower his wing of mercy over his parents, as they brought him up from the time of his infancy. ‘Wing’ only means attributes and powers, and we believe it is in this sense that wings are attributed to angels, or to persons claiming divine manifestation from among the various religions. For instance, in Gita, Krishna is known to have possessed four arms instead of two. There the extra pair of arms serve the same purpose as the wings found in other divine books.
Angels are responsible for controlling and maintaining the laws of nature. Virus and bacteria are governed, organised and maintained by specific angels, who work in harmony with each other to maintain a perfect balance. Similarly, eco-systems are not accidental or chaotic, but are regulated by the invisible, spiritual beings that we call angels.
The Case of the Fallen Angel
There is another very much misunderstood episode concerning Satan. It is said, and it is believed, that prior to his fall he belonged to the category of angels. The Holy Quran rejects this view and presents Satan as possessing a fiery nature, thus belonging to such forms of life as are created from fire, for example the Djinn.
Unquote
Thanks
As far as the traditions go, we can comprehend to a degree the versatility of angels in being able to materialise in various forms or apparitions, which have no relation to their real form or existence, which is beyond man’s comprehension and has different dimensions from those known to us.
Once it is reported that a stranger suddenly entered the mosque where the founder of Islam was sitting along with his companions. This man approached the assembly, sat respectfully in the front row, and started to ask questions regarding the nature of Islam. Having finished his list of questions, he took leave and departed. Those present were amazed because first this man was a complete stranger who must have travelled some distance to reach the mosque. In small townships the knowledge of such visits does not remain a secret, and everybody seems to know who has arrived and for what purpose. In his case, the arrival was so sudden that it appeared mysterious. Secondly, there were no marks of a journey on his bearing or his clothes. A fresh looking gentleman, he was of immaculately clean dress. Moreover the manner in which he began to ask questions without any introduction, and his abrupt departure, was extremely unusual to say the least.
Before the companions of the Holy Prophet (sa) could say anything, the Holy Prophet (sa) himself informed them that the person had actually been the angel Gabriel, who had asked the leading questions so that the companions become acquainted with the facts contained in the answers given. Some companions ran out of the mosque to meet the angel in disguise, as they thought, but there was no trace of him anywhere. No-one in the township admitted to seeing such a man. As this incident is reported in the highly authentic books of tradition, we can safely infer that angels sometimes appear in ordinary human form for the purpose of discharging sundry errands. We find mention of angels in many other traditions, particularly in relation to the battles of Badr and Uhad, but it would be inappropriate perhaps to enter into a lengthy discourse on this issue.
As against the Quranic view explained above, almost in every country the commonly held view about angels among followers of various religions is more on the pattern of fairy tales than of them belonging to a celestial form of existence. They are said to have wings like birds or fairies, flapping them about as they fly from place to place. This misconcept is perhaps born out of over- much literalising of religious terminology, which is cryptic and has, most often, metaphorical allusions. Thus we also find mention in the Holy Quran of wings in relation to angels, which speaks of them as having wings in twos, threes and fours:
All praise belongs to Allah the Maker of the heavens and the earth, Who employs the angels as messengers, having wings, two, three and four. Surah Al-Fatir (Ch. 35, v. 2)
The Holy Quran has a very special style of elucidating all such passages where there lies a danger of obscurity – it does this with the help of other similar usages. About the wings, for instance, we also find these mentioned in relation to a son’s attitude towards his elderly parents. Building this subject, the Holy Quran admonishes the son to lower his wing of mercy over his parents, as they brought him up from the time of his infancy. ‘Wing’ only means attributes and powers, and we believe it is in this sense that wings are attributed to angels, or to persons claiming divine manifestation from among the various religions. For instance, in Gita, Krishna is known to have possessed four arms instead of two. There the extra pair of arms serve the same purpose as the wings found in other divine books.
Angels are responsible for controlling and maintaining the laws of nature. Virus and bacteria are governed, organised and maintained by specific angels, who work in harmony with each other to maintain a perfect balance. Similarly, eco-systems are not accidental or chaotic, but are regulated by the invisible, spiritual beings that we call angels.
The Case of the Fallen Angel
There is another very much misunderstood episode concerning Satan. It is said, and it is believed, that prior to his fall he belonged to the category of angels. The Holy Quran rejects this view and presents Satan as possessing a fiery nature, thus belonging to such forms of life as are created from fire, for example the Djinn.
Unquote
Thanks
A
ahmadhassan
Guest
if it was altered by human how could you make sure that church will not alter it?
the original language of christ was aramaic(completely lost) which was translated into herbew this translation of herbew was translated into greek finally this translation of the greek one was translated into english
so you read translation of the translation of the translation of the bible
now let me ask you what if i give you text and told you to translate it into another language then translate it back
imagine what can be ommitted and added
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
The original would be lost with the translation wind. Llike it seems happened with the Christian Scriptures.There is no original text with them; they feel contended with the translation of the translation of the translation. In another thread they have listed about 125 books, full of contradictions and ambiguities, out of which some have been selected by the Clergy as canon and the rest have been discarded, without any reasonable reasons and the burden has been put on JesusYeshuaIssa, who seems to be an easy target for all such things.
Thanks
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing and All-Wise; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
A
ASimpleSinner
Guest
I am still most interested in a non-Catholic party demonstrating that the Christian faith was corrupted. Can evidence be presented that the original message and teachings of Christ as passed down through the ages and spaces by the Catholic Church is not original? Can it be demonstrated that the Scripture translations we enjoy today are faulty AND the teachings of the church, alongside the early records of the church, have simultaneously gone into error?
K
kellie
Guest
Jesus promised us the Truth wouldn’t be lost
Are you saying the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus, which is God, wouldn’t have been guiding the translators over the years?
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi! everybody.
**Third Article of Faith **of Ahmadis- a peaceful faith in islam
THE BELIEF IN THE
BOOKS
Let us now turn to the third article of faith, which is the belief in the books. Muslims are required to believe not only in the divine scripture revealed to the Holy Founder of Islam, which is called the Quran, but it is essential for every Muslim to believe in all such divine revelations as were vouchsafed to other prophets, from wherever and whichever age. It is an essential part of a Muslim’s belief that if anyone professes belief only in the divine origin of the Quran, and refuses to acknowledge the divine origin of other books, such as the Old Testament and the New Testament etc., his profession of Islam would be invalidated.
This belief resolves some problems but creates others, and needs to be studied at greater length. It provides the only foundation upon which the unity of man can be built on earth, in accordance with his belief in the Unity of God. It removes the root cause responsible for inter-religious disharmony and mistrust. But this belief in the divine origin of all books raises some very difficult questions to answer.
As we study the books that claim to be of divine origin, we find contradictions not only in the peripheral areas of their teachings, but also in the areas of basic and fundamental beliefs. This could not be so had they originated from the same eternal source of light. The case in point can well be illustrated by the fact that many such books contain passages which are understood and interpreted by their followers to lead to the belief in lesser deities sharing divinity with the one Supreme Being. In some books, God is presented as the head of a family of gods, having spouses, sons and daughters. In some other books, saintly human figures are attributed with such superhuman powers as are only befitting to be possessed by God. There are other books in which the Unity of God is stressed so strongly and uncompromisingly as to leave no room for anyone to share God’s attributes in whatsoever capacity. The Quran stands out in this respect among all the scriptures of the major world religions.
How does the Quran resolve this dilemma – that is the question. According to the Quran, it is a universal trend of man to gradually interpolate the divine teachings which were vouchsafed to the founders of their religion. To change the concept of Unity to that of polytheism is a manifestation of the same trend. We can definitely discover evidence of the truth of this claim by tracing the history of changes in the text, or the interpretation of the text, from the time of its first revelation. This is why the Holy Quran pointedly draws our attention to the fact that all divine books concurred in their fundamental teachings only at the time of their inception. It is not necessary to go through the laborious exercise of pursuing the history of change, because logically there can be no other conclusion than the one made by the Quran. If there is no God other than the one Supreme Being, and if the claims of all religions – that their divine books originated from God – are to be accepted, then there has to be unanimity among all such books, at least in the fundamentals.
Having said that, one faces another important question regarding the manner in which one can ascertain the original doctrinal teachings common to all religions. One must find a logically acceptable methodology to sift the right from the wrong.
The fundamental beliefs from the point of view of the Holy Quran are so attuned to human nature that they simply sink into the human hearts by the sheer force of their truth. They are as follows:
And they were not commanded but to serve Allah, being sincere to Him in obedience, and being upright, and to observe prayer, and pay the Zakat. And that is the religion of the people of the right path. Surah Al-Bayyinah (Ch. 98: V.6)
This means that all the founders of the religions of the world were categorically told that they must worship the one and only God with all sincerity, dedicating themselves purely and completely to Him alone. They were also told to perform regular prayers (as institutionalised in their religion), and to spend (in the cause of God) for the needy and the destitute, and for other similar philanthropic purposes. It is hard to find disagreement with this, whichever religion one may belong to.
**Third Article of Faith **of Ahmadis- a peaceful faith in islam
THE BELIEF IN THE
BOOKS
Let us now turn to the third article of faith, which is the belief in the books. Muslims are required to believe not only in the divine scripture revealed to the Holy Founder of Islam, which is called the Quran, but it is essential for every Muslim to believe in all such divine revelations as were vouchsafed to other prophets, from wherever and whichever age. It is an essential part of a Muslim’s belief that if anyone professes belief only in the divine origin of the Quran, and refuses to acknowledge the divine origin of other books, such as the Old Testament and the New Testament etc., his profession of Islam would be invalidated.
This belief resolves some problems but creates others, and needs to be studied at greater length. It provides the only foundation upon which the unity of man can be built on earth, in accordance with his belief in the Unity of God. It removes the root cause responsible for inter-religious disharmony and mistrust. But this belief in the divine origin of all books raises some very difficult questions to answer.
As we study the books that claim to be of divine origin, we find contradictions not only in the peripheral areas of their teachings, but also in the areas of basic and fundamental beliefs. This could not be so had they originated from the same eternal source of light. The case in point can well be illustrated by the fact that many such books contain passages which are understood and interpreted by their followers to lead to the belief in lesser deities sharing divinity with the one Supreme Being. In some books, God is presented as the head of a family of gods, having spouses, sons and daughters. In some other books, saintly human figures are attributed with such superhuman powers as are only befitting to be possessed by God. There are other books in which the Unity of God is stressed so strongly and uncompromisingly as to leave no room for anyone to share God’s attributes in whatsoever capacity. The Quran stands out in this respect among all the scriptures of the major world religions.
How does the Quran resolve this dilemma – that is the question. According to the Quran, it is a universal trend of man to gradually interpolate the divine teachings which were vouchsafed to the founders of their religion. To change the concept of Unity to that of polytheism is a manifestation of the same trend. We can definitely discover evidence of the truth of this claim by tracing the history of changes in the text, or the interpretation of the text, from the time of its first revelation. This is why the Holy Quran pointedly draws our attention to the fact that all divine books concurred in their fundamental teachings only at the time of their inception. It is not necessary to go through the laborious exercise of pursuing the history of change, because logically there can be no other conclusion than the one made by the Quran. If there is no God other than the one Supreme Being, and if the claims of all religions – that their divine books originated from God – are to be accepted, then there has to be unanimity among all such books, at least in the fundamentals.
Having said that, one faces another important question regarding the manner in which one can ascertain the original doctrinal teachings common to all religions. One must find a logically acceptable methodology to sift the right from the wrong.
The fundamental beliefs from the point of view of the Holy Quran are so attuned to human nature that they simply sink into the human hearts by the sheer force of their truth. They are as follows:
And they were not commanded but to serve Allah, being sincere to Him in obedience, and being upright, and to observe prayer, and pay the Zakat. And that is the religion of the people of the right path. Surah Al-Bayyinah (Ch. 98: V.6)
This means that all the founders of the religions of the world were categorically told that they must worship the one and only God with all sincerity, dedicating themselves purely and completely to Him alone. They were also told to perform regular prayers (as institutionalised in their religion), and to spend (in the cause of God) for the needy and the destitute, and for other similar philanthropic purposes. It is hard to find disagreement with this, whichever religion one may belong to.
P
paarsurrey
Guest
](continued from the previous post.)In this preliminary discourse we do not wish to involve ourselves in a lengthy discussion on the various different modes of worship as prescribed by God and the reasons for their being different. Presently we are focusing our attention on the reasons as to why religions appear to be different both in fundamentals and in the detailed teachings.
In short we can say that the hand of time is relentless, and the concept of decay is inseparable from the concept of time. Everything new must begin to grow old and change. One may look at the ruins of great castles and palaces with wonder, but even the buildings built by the same monarchs and designed by the same architects are no exception to this law. Sometimes they are added upon by later generations and are changed in design so drastically as to lose all resemblance to their original shape. Sometimes they are abandoned and become ruins. According to the Quran, the areas of uncompromisable differences in all religions are the handiworks of men belonging to later ages. In the light of this universally acceptable teaching of the Holy Quran, Islam seems to have paved the way for the unification of all religions, at least in fundamentals principles. Thus it does away with man-made obstacles and barriers created to keep the religions apart as distinctly separate entities.
The reason mentioned above is not the only one responsible for the divergence in teachings observed in various books. Some differences were certainly not man-made, but were required by the dictates of time. As man gradually advanced in various areas of civilisation and culture, science and economy, at different stages of his history he required specific teachings related to that period of time, and a divine book would be revealed for his instruction. These time-related teachings were not universal, but related to specific situations and requirements. In certain ages, man lived a life not very far away from that of the sub-human species of life. His intellectual advancements were limited, his knowledge of the universe narrow. He was not even fully aware of the world that he was inhabiting. The modes of communication at his disposal were totally inadequate to help him understand the nature and vastness of the earth and the universality of man. Very often his awareness of existence was confined only to small areas of land or the country to which he belonged.
In many divine books revealed at that time, we do not find mention of the existence of the world beyond the limited domain of the people to whom these books were addressed. It does not necessarily mean, as some secular philosophers would have us believe, that this fact offers enough proof that the books in question were man-made rather than of divine origin.
All divine teachings were related to not only the requirements but also the information possessed by the people of the age, otherwise people of the age could have raised objections against the messengers of the time, accusing them of contradicting commonly established facts. This could have presented an insoluble dilemma for the prophets, as they themselves shared the same knowledge as the people. Many interesting examples of the same can be quoted from the Quran, where the understanding of nature as known to the people of the time was to be proved false by the men of learning of later ages. Whichever position the Quran adopted, it would still remain vulnerable to objections, either by contemporary people or by people of a later age. It is amazing how the Quran solves this problem, and in no way can it be criticised by present day philosophers and scientists either.
The following illustration would be of particular interest. A man of this age does not need to be highly educated to know that the earth rotates on its own axis; but if someone had made this statement fourteen hundred years ago and dared to attribute it to God, either he would have been rejected out of hand as being absolutely ignorant, or God would be ridiculed as having no knowledge of things which he has professed to have created. The Holy Quran being a universal book for all ages could not have avoided the mention of this subject altogether, or the people of later ages, such as ours, would have rightfully blamed it for possessing no knowledge of the universe. Meeting this challenge squarely, the Holy Quran speaks of the mountains in the following verse, presenting them as floating or coasting like clouds, while people perceive them to be stationary:
In short we can say that the hand of time is relentless, and the concept of decay is inseparable from the concept of time. Everything new must begin to grow old and change. One may look at the ruins of great castles and palaces with wonder, but even the buildings built by the same monarchs and designed by the same architects are no exception to this law. Sometimes they are added upon by later generations and are changed in design so drastically as to lose all resemblance to their original shape. Sometimes they are abandoned and become ruins. According to the Quran, the areas of uncompromisable differences in all religions are the handiworks of men belonging to later ages. In the light of this universally acceptable teaching of the Holy Quran, Islam seems to have paved the way for the unification of all religions, at least in fundamentals principles. Thus it does away with man-made obstacles and barriers created to keep the religions apart as distinctly separate entities.
The reason mentioned above is not the only one responsible for the divergence in teachings observed in various books. Some differences were certainly not man-made, but were required by the dictates of time. As man gradually advanced in various areas of civilisation and culture, science and economy, at different stages of his history he required specific teachings related to that period of time, and a divine book would be revealed for his instruction. These time-related teachings were not universal, but related to specific situations and requirements. In certain ages, man lived a life not very far away from that of the sub-human species of life. His intellectual advancements were limited, his knowledge of the universe narrow. He was not even fully aware of the world that he was inhabiting. The modes of communication at his disposal were totally inadequate to help him understand the nature and vastness of the earth and the universality of man. Very often his awareness of existence was confined only to small areas of land or the country to which he belonged.
In many divine books revealed at that time, we do not find mention of the existence of the world beyond the limited domain of the people to whom these books were addressed. It does not necessarily mean, as some secular philosophers would have us believe, that this fact offers enough proof that the books in question were man-made rather than of divine origin.
All divine teachings were related to not only the requirements but also the information possessed by the people of the age, otherwise people of the age could have raised objections against the messengers of the time, accusing them of contradicting commonly established facts. This could have presented an insoluble dilemma for the prophets, as they themselves shared the same knowledge as the people. Many interesting examples of the same can be quoted from the Quran, where the understanding of nature as known to the people of the time was to be proved false by the men of learning of later ages. Whichever position the Quran adopted, it would still remain vulnerable to objections, either by contemporary people or by people of a later age. It is amazing how the Quran solves this problem, and in no way can it be criticised by present day philosophers and scientists either.
The following illustration would be of particular interest. A man of this age does not need to be highly educated to know that the earth rotates on its own axis; but if someone had made this statement fourteen hundred years ago and dared to attribute it to God, either he would have been rejected out of hand as being absolutely ignorant, or God would be ridiculed as having no knowledge of things which he has professed to have created. The Holy Quran being a universal book for all ages could not have avoided the mention of this subject altogether, or the people of later ages, such as ours, would have rightfully blamed it for possessing no knowledge of the universe. Meeting this challenge squarely, the Holy Quran speaks of the mountains in the following verse, presenting them as floating or coasting like clouds, while people perceive them to be stationary:
A
ASimpleSinner
Guest
Still I am left asking for a citation demonstrating a clear corruption of the texts of Scipture and the recieved body of the Catholic faith.
Can anyone step up to the challenge and explain how and when this occured?
Can anyone step up to the challenge and explain how and when this occured?
P
paarsurrey
Guest
"]continued from the previous postYou see the mountains and imagine them to be stationary whereas they are moving like the moving of clouds. Surah Al-Naml (Ch. 27: V.89)
Obviously the mountains would not be floating without the earth moving along with them. But the tense used is that of future – ‘Muzaria’ – which is common to both the continuous present and future. So the verse may be translated as: ‘The mountains are moving constantly in a coasting motion without making the least effort on their part.’ It can also be translated as: ‘The mountains will move as if they were sailing.’ People of that age might have taken refuge in this second option, but they forgot to take notice of another part of the same verse which says: ‘While you think they are stationary.’ How could the man of any age think the mountains to be stationary if they suddenly started moving? The description of their movement leaves no room anywhere for anyone to be alive on earth and watch quietly the amazing phenomenon mentioned in the verse.
Logically therefore, the only valid translation would be: ‘While you consider the mountains to be stationary, in fact they are constantly in motion.’ There are many other similar examples which can be quoted from the Quran, but I have already illustrated them in another address of mine entitled ‘Rationality and Revelation in Relation to Knowledge and Truth’. Any reader interested in further study could refer to the same.
We know for certain that during the remote past when the Vedas were revealed for the benefit of the people of India, the Indians had little knowledge of the worlds lying beyond the seas. Hence there is no mention of any country or people outside India, across the natural boundaries of the Himalayas on the one side and the seas on the other. The silence of the Vedas on the subject may be an appropriate and well understood silence on the part of God. It must be made clear that the facts mentioned in the divine books are of two categories. The first category comprises this worldly facts, which can be understood and verified by all human beings regardless of which religion they belong to. These are the facts that we are referring to in the above discussion. As far as facts belonging to the otherworldly things are concerned, any man can make any claim about them, because they lie beyond the human reach of verification.
Despite differences however, the fundamental points of similarities are always traceable if one digs deeply into a study of original books. As an archaeologist can reconstruct the design of the original plan from a study of the ruins, so also it should not be difficult for a keen observer to read the message of Unity even through the veils of fog and mist created by the followers of the religions as they move away from the time of the founding prophets.
Obviously the mountains would not be floating without the earth moving along with them. But the tense used is that of future – ‘Muzaria’ – which is common to both the continuous present and future. So the verse may be translated as: ‘The mountains are moving constantly in a coasting motion without making the least effort on their part.’ It can also be translated as: ‘The mountains will move as if they were sailing.’ People of that age might have taken refuge in this second option, but they forgot to take notice of another part of the same verse which says: ‘While you think they are stationary.’ How could the man of any age think the mountains to be stationary if they suddenly started moving? The description of their movement leaves no room anywhere for anyone to be alive on earth and watch quietly the amazing phenomenon mentioned in the verse.
Logically therefore, the only valid translation would be: ‘While you consider the mountains to be stationary, in fact they are constantly in motion.’ There are many other similar examples which can be quoted from the Quran, but I have already illustrated them in another address of mine entitled ‘Rationality and Revelation in Relation to Knowledge and Truth’. Any reader interested in further study could refer to the same.
We know for certain that during the remote past when the Vedas were revealed for the benefit of the people of India, the Indians had little knowledge of the worlds lying beyond the seas. Hence there is no mention of any country or people outside India, across the natural boundaries of the Himalayas on the one side and the seas on the other. The silence of the Vedas on the subject may be an appropriate and well understood silence on the part of God. It must be made clear that the facts mentioned in the divine books are of two categories. The first category comprises this worldly facts, which can be understood and verified by all human beings regardless of which religion they belong to. These are the facts that we are referring to in the above discussion. As far as facts belonging to the otherworldly things are concerned, any man can make any claim about them, because they lie beyond the human reach of verification.
Despite differences however, the fundamental points of similarities are always traceable if one digs deeply into a study of original books. As an archaeologist can reconstruct the design of the original plan from a study of the ruins, so also it should not be difficult for a keen observer to read the message of Unity even through the veils of fog and mist created by the followers of the religions as they move away from the time of the founding prophets.
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