Airlines may pay for pollution

[Matt25]

telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/09/28/wpoll28.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/09/28/ixworld.html

Airlines flying in and out of the European Union should be made to pay for greenhouse gases produced by their planes, the European Commission said yesterday.

It unveiled plans to force air carriers into the EU’s Emissions Trading Scheme, backed by the British and other EU national governments…

The plans would form part of the EU’s implementation of the Kyoto Protocol on capping greenhouse gas emissions. Mr Dimas pointed to estimates that the greenhouse gases emitted by international flights had increased by 73 per cent between 1993 and 2003, and are set to rise still more sharply.

 

[MommaKat]

Good we’ll all stay home. There is no need to go to Europe anyway.

 

[WanderAimlessly]

MommaKat:

Good we’ll all stay home. There is no need to go to Europe anyway.

Unfortunately, for me, I have to go to Europe probably 3 or 4 more times in the next 6 months on business. When I do travel, I try to book United States based airlines.

PF

 

[geezerbob]

The airlines are going to pay??? Another cost that will simply be passed on the the passengers. Meanwhile, China and India continue to pollute at will.

 

[Matt25]

geezerbob:

The airlines are going to pay??? Another cost that will simply be passed on the the passengers. Meanwhile, China and India continue to pollute at will.

So does the USA which with 4% of the worlds population produces 25% of the worlds greenhouse gases soc.ucsb.edu/projects/casemethod/appelbaum.html

China and India produce miniscule amounts by comparison. Europe acknowledges it is polluting the world and has begun to tackle the problem. The USA seems to be saying it would rather consume material goods than act as responsible stewards to Gods creation.

The issue about airlines is that aviation fuel is tax free. Now how fair is that.

 

[MommaKat]

WanderAimlessly:

Unfortunately, for me, I have to go to Europe probably 3 or 4 more times in the next 6 months on business. When I do travel, I try to book United States based airlines.

PF

I pray that you can always book on United State based airlines. I had always wanted to go to my families homelands of Ireland and Germany but now I just visit all the place in the United States and Canada I haven’t seen. I also would have liked to go to Rome but I just watch on TV.
I will not give credence to Green party forces. I believe in good stewardship not in forced conservation. I believe God will judges on our stewardship not on our man-made laws.

 

[geezerbob]

Matt25:

So does the USA which with 4% of the worlds population produces 25% of the worlds greenhouse gases soc.ucsb.edu/projects/casemethod/appelbaum.html

China and India produce miniscule amounts by comparison. Europe acknowledges it is polluting the world and has begun to tackle the problem. The USA seems to be saying it would rather consume material goods than act as responsible stewards to Gods creation.

The issue about airlines is that aviation fuel is tax free. Now how fair is that.

The US has been working on and succeeding in reducing pollution for at least 50 years. I doubt that the US produces 25% of the world’s greenhouse gases since the bulk of them occur naturally. Assigning percentages to something as difficult to quantify as this is more of a political statement than science. Must you always bash?

China and India produce more pollution than they are given credit for, primarily because it comes from individual cooking and heating fires rather than factories and is much more difficult to measure. Also, since they are the two most populous countries in the world, how much gas is produced by that many people simply breathing? Don’t sell them short in this regard.

Did I make any statements about fairness? My previous post merely said that airline passengers, not the airlines, would end up paying any penalties/taxes imposed by the EU. How do you read anything about fairness into that?

 

[WanderAimlessly]

MommaKat:

I pray that you can always book on United State based airlines. I had always wanted to go to my families homelands of Ireland and Germany but now I just visit all the place in the United States and Canada I haven’t seen. I also would have liked to go to Rome but I just watch on TV.
I will not give credence to Green party forces. I believe in good stewardship not in forced conservation. I believe God will judges on our stewardship not on our man-made laws.

Fortunatly, there is one airline that flies to all the places in Europe that I will be going to. It should be enough (with the number of domestic flight I will be taking) to give me enough miles that I will be able to get a First Class ticket for my vacation next year in September.

PF

 

[Matt25]

MommaKat:

I pray that you can always book on United State based airlines. I had always wanted to go to my families homelands of Ireland and Germany but now I just visit all the place in the United States and Canada I haven’t seen. I also would have liked to go to Rome but I just watch on TV.
I will not give credence to Green party forces. I believe in good stewardship not in forced conservation. I believe God will judges on our stewardship not on our man-made laws.

In his World Day of Peace Message for 1990
** PEACE WITH GOD THE CREATOR, PEACE WITH ALL** OF CREATION

Pope John Paul II said

IN OUR DAY, there is a growing awareness that world peace is threatened not only by the arms race, regional conflicts and continued injustices among peoples and nations, but also by a lack of DUE RESPECT FOR NATURE, by the plundering of natural resources and by a progressive decline in the quality of life. The sense of precariousness and insecurity that such a situation engenders is a seedbed for collective selfishness, disregard for others and dishonesty. Faced with the widespread destruction of the environment, people everywhere are coming to understand that we cannot continue to use the goods of the earth as we have in the past. The public in general as well as political leaders are concerned abut this problem, and experts from a wide range of disciplines are studying its causes. Moreover, a new ECOLOGICAL AWARENESS is beginning to emerge which, rather than being downplayed, ought to be encouraged to develop into concrete programs and initiatives.

1. Many ethical values, fundamental to the development of a PEACEFUL SOCIETY, are particularly relevant to the ecological question. The fact that many challenges facing the world today are interdependent confirms the need for carefully coordinated solutions based on a morally coherent world view…

1. Certain elements of today’s ecological crisis reveal its moral character. First among these is the INDISCRIMINATE APPLICATION of advances in science and technology. Many recent discoveries have brought undeniable benefits to humanity. Indeed, they demonstrate the nobility of the human vocation to participate RESPONSIBLY in God’s creative action in the world. Unfortunately, it is now clear that the application of these discoveries in the fields of industry and agriculture have produced harmful long-term effects. This has led to the painful realization that WE CANNOT INTERFERE IN ONE AREA OF THE ECOSYSTEM WITHOUT PAYING DUE ATTENTION BOTH TO THE CONSEQUENCES OF SUCH INTERFERENCE IN OTHER AREAS AND TO THE WELL-BEING OF FUTURE GENERATIONS.

The gradual depletion of the ozone layer and the related “greenhouse effect” has now reached crisis proportions as a consequence of industrial growth, massive urban concentrations and vastly increased energy needs. Industrial waste, the burning of fossil fuels, unrestricted deforestation, the use of certain types of herbicides, coolants and propellants,: all of these are known to harm the atmosphere and environment. The resulting meteorological and atmospheric changes range from damage to health to the possible future submersion of low-lying lands.

While in some cases the damage already done may well be irreversible, in many other cases it can still be halted. It is necessary, however, that the entire human community—individuals, States and international bodies—take seriously the responsibility that is theirs.

 

[Matt25]

geezerbob:

. Must you always bash?

Actually I am rather pleased about the EU proposals so I can hardly be said to be bashing them. Also I am rather happy with the attitude of Holy Mother Church on this so I am certainly not bashing them. I’m less keen with a President who is so close to the oil industry.

The Catholic Bishops Conference of the US have released a statement “Global Climate Change A plea for Dialogue, Prudence and the Common Good” you can see it at usccb.org/sdwp/international/globalclimate.htm

Because of the blessings God has bestowed on our nation and the power it possesses, the United States bears a special responsibility in its stewardship of God’s creation to shape responses that serve the entire human family. As pastors, teachers, and citizens, we bishops seek to contribute to our national dialogue by examining the ethical implications of climate change. We offer some themes from Catholic social teaching that could help to shape this dialogue, and we suggest some directions for the debate and public policy decisions that face us. We do so with great respect for the work of the scientists, diplomats, business and union representatives, developers of new technologies, environmental leaders, and policymakers who have been struggling with the difficult questions of climate change for many years.

While our own growing awareness of this problem has come in part from scientific research and the public debate about the human contribution to climate change, we are also responding to the appeals of the Church in other parts of the world. Along with Pope John Paul II, church leaders in developing countries—who fear that affluent nations will mute their voices and ignore their needs—have expressed their concerns about how this global challenge will affect their people and their environment. We also hear the call of Catholic youth and other young people to protect the environment.

Therefore, we especially want to focus on the needs of the poor, the weak, and the vulnerable in a debate often dominated by more powerful interests. Inaction and inadequate or misguided responses to climate change will likely place even greater burdens on already desperately poor peoples. Action to mitigate global climate change must be built upon a foundation of social and economic justice that does not put the poor at greater risk or place disproportionate and unfair burdens on developing nations.

 

[2shelbys]

So does the USA which with 4% of the worlds population produces 25% of the worlds greenhouse gases soc.ucsb.edu/projects/casemethod/appelbaum.html

Judging by the number of claims in that article that are opposed by valid science and the generally unfriendly tone it takes toward the U.S. I would not put too much faith in that 25% claim.

China and India produce miniscule amounts by comparison.

I do not know how you can make that claim when China does not allow anyone to monitor such things.

The USA seems to be saying it would rather consume material goods than act as responsible stewards to Gods creation.

I see you subscribe to that “unfriendy toward the U.S.” tone.
This country has done more to curb pollution than just about any other nation. Just try to get a European spec car through American exhaust certification. You can not do it. That is why all of the cars exported to this country have more emmissions gear and far less horsepower.

 

[Matt25]

2shelbys:

I see you subscribe to that “unfriendy toward the U.S.” tone.
This country has done more to curb pollution than just about any other nation. Just try to get a European spec car through American exhaust certification. You can not do it. That is why all of the cars exported to this country have more emmissions gear and far less horsepower.

I don’t particularly subscribe to “unfriendly towards the US” tone. But I was a little irked by the suggestion that Americans should boycott Europe because we are trying to reduce pollution.

What controls are there on factory emissions in Texas? How many miles per gallon does the average American car do? Clue

abcnews.go.com/International/CSM/story?id=1069069

While the average light duty vehicle on US highways gets 21.6 miles per gallon (m.p.g.), according to a study by the Paris based International Energy Agency (IEA), in Paris, its European counterpart manages 32.1 m.p.g.

 

[shockerfan]

Matt25:

China and India produce miniscule amounts by comparison.

Based on what? Their GDP is 3rd in the world and their industrial growth rate is 4 times that of the US. India ranks 6th in GDP and has a growth rate 1.7 times that of the US.

As I said in another thread, either global warming is a global problem that must be addresssed globally or its not.

That translates into we either play by the same rules or we don’t.

 

[KathleenElsie]

telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/09/28/wpoll28.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/09/28/ixworld.html

Airlines flying in and out of the European Union should be made to pay for greenhouse gases produced by their planes, the European Commission said yesterday.

It unveiled plans to force air carriers into the EU’s Emissions Trading Scheme, backed by the British and other EU national governments…

The plans would form part of the EU’s implementation of the Kyoto Protocol on capping greenhouse gas emissions. Mr Dimas pointed to estimates that the greenhouse gases emitted by international flights had increased by 73 per cent between 1993 and 2003, and are set to rise still more sharply.

IMHO you left out the most important part. LOL And the middle part of this states that the companies can pugchase the right to pollute frome others for a price. LOL just another way to get money out of the evil businesses that provide the work, so that the evil consumers can purchase what is made in the thrid world countries.:whacky:

The scheme caps the amount of pollution about 12,000 major companies across the EU can emit in a given year.
If a company looks set to produce more than its quota, it can choose between investing in cleaner technology or buying pollution quotas from a cleaner company.

Airlines could be forced to join the scheme, which was launched this year, within “three to four years”, said the EU environment commissioner, Stavros Dimas.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Matt25:

In his World Day of Peace Message for 1990
PEACE WITH GOD THE CREATOR, PEACE WITH ALL OF CREATION

Pope John Paul II said

Yes and the USA has made great progress in reducing pollution. To bad that the third world is now allowed to pollute as they please now. But, IMHO it is just a bash USA thread anyway.:banghead:

 

[Jeffrey]

That is incorrect… the USA works the hardest to reduce pollution.

Matt25:

So does the USA which with 4% of the worlds population produces 25% of the worlds greenhouse gases soc.ucsb.edu/projects/casemethod/appelbaum.html

China and India produce miniscule amounts by comparison. Europe acknowledges it is polluting the world and has begun to tackle the problem. The USA seems to be saying it would rather consume material goods than act as responsible stewards to Gods creation.

The issue about airlines is that aviation fuel is tax free. Now how fair is that.

 

[2shelbys]

But I was a little irked by the suggestion that Americans should boycott Europe because we are trying to reduce pollution.

Boycotts are usually kind of silly.

How many miles per gallon does the average American car do? Clue

When I was in Europe I saw a lot of the cars that make their average lower and I would not be caught dead in them which is likely to happen if you run into another car, a kid on a bike, a dog, or a strong gust of wind. I could flip one of those things on to it’s roof by myself. Studies show that the most important factor in accident survivability is not air bags or even seat belts but the size of the vehicle you are riding in. Those tiny high-mileage cars are deathtraps and I would never let anyone I love ride in one. Saving gas is great but it is not worth infinitely increasing the chance of losing your life.

 

[Matt25]

KathleenElsie:

Yes and the USA has made great progress in reducing pollution.

What has Texas done to reduce pollution in the past ten years?

 

[2shelbys]

Matt25:

What has Texas done to reduce pollution in the past ten years?

This: tceq.state.tx.us/comm_exec/forms_pubs/pubs/pd/020/05-03/airpollution.html

and this:
tceq.state.tx.us/nav/pollution/app.html

and this: tnrcc.state.tx.us/air/ms/smokingvehicles.html#smk4

and this:
tceq.state.tx.us/implementation/air/terp/index.html

and probably other things I did not find since I do not live there and did not spend more than a minute or two looking.

 

[rlg94086]

Matt25,

I know that economics are not the most important thing in the world, but I think this will hurt the EU economy - less tourism and possibly less business travel. Is there any concern in government and/or the business community?

Robert