Aisha

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Rodrigo_Bivar said:
Kaninchen,
I think all the Muslim countries without exception had no minimum age of consent or left it at 9 years of age prior to the last 50-100 years…
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My question wasn’t about how nice or nasty Muslims were/are/will be, it really was about the ‘islamic/un-islamic’ nature of the marriage ages in the major Islamic countries. Countries like Saudi make up a tiny proportion of the Muslim world.

Since there are Muslims here, I was interested in their insight into the issue - Judaism and Islam share ‘legalism’ so it’s natural to me to find the legal arguments one way or another interesting. If it’s religiously ok one way in Saudi but the other way in Indonesia, how is it so?
You have made an interesting apologetic nonetheless.
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I may have been bottom of the class for “Roman Catholic” in the Beliefnet thread and dismiss things like ‘Muslims breeding for victory’ but that hardly makes me an apologist for Islam.
Chau,
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Ciao

Kaninchen
 
Valke2 said:
It seems that your post deals witha pre-arranged marriage in which the person answering the question is saying either wait until she reaches puberty and can make a decision as to whether to consummate or break the contract/divorce.

Regarding Mary, I already gave my reasons for believing what her age could have been, acknowledged that she may have been much older. But feel free to keep gnawing at that bone. I’ll end my participation in this thread by simply saying that the attitude toward Islam on these boards seems very different to the attitude currently expressed by the Catholic Church.
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Well Valke2, didn’t Judah sleep with a harlot that turned out to be Tamar?
Now, if Jews and/or Christians took this as a sign that it was ok to sleep with prostitutes today, yep, I’d be against that, too.
 
Kaninchen,
I don’t think you’ll find the minimum age of consent laws in the sharia, no matter which century you’re interested in, unless it’s the age of nine. I could be mistaken, but I doubt it.

Chau,
Rodrigo
 
Again please note that all of the argumentation from the muslim side is designed to excuse sex with little 9 year olds. Not one has said it is wrong, even the ones saying Muhammed didn’t actually do it. Interesting isn’t it? You would think they would have no problem saying it’s wrong if Muhammed didn’t marry a 9 year old. Yet they still defend the practise. What does that tell you?
 
cestusdei said:
Again please note that all of the argumentation from the muslim side is designed to excuse sex with little 9 year olds. Not one has said it is wrong, even the ones saying Muhammed didn’t actually do it. Interesting isn’t it? You would think they would have no problem saying it’s wrong if Muhammed didn’t marry a 9 year old. Yet they still defend the practise. What does that tell you?
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I will say that, without exception, it is wrong to have sex with a 9 year old girl, menstruating or not. It is also wrong to have sex with a 9 year old boy.
 
BTW I was watching the Dispatches Undercover Mosque videos on youtube and also watched the rebuttals of some of the speakers featured in the video.

FWIW I want to state that it is obvious the Dispatches Undercover Mosque video footage is heavily edited. So I do not take everything said there as how it actually happened. But some of it I do think is as was depicted.

Anyway in a rebuttal video one of the speakers addresses the ‘Aisha’ marriage.

youtube.com/watch?v=eqH7NNTvhqU
 
Valke2 said:
It seems that your post deals witha pre-arranged marriage in which the person answering the question is saying either wait until she reaches puberty and can make a decision as to whether to consummate or break the contract/divorce.
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If you want I can cite advice where they allow marriages to be consummated before this AND THEN when she reaches puberty she can divorce.
Valke2 said:
Regarding Mary, I already gave my reasons for believing what her age could have been, acknowledged that she may have been much older. But feel free to keep gnawing at that bone.
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If you can’t admit your ‘reference’ to another poster is highly dubious ‘evidence’ then so be it.
Valke2 said:
I’ll end my participation in this thread by simply saying that the attitude toward Islam on these boards seems very different to the attitude currently expressed by the Catholic Church.
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I’m not Catholic
 
Ella said:
BTW I was watching the Dispatches Undercover Mosque videos on youtube and also watched the rebuttals of some of the speakers featured in the video.

FWIW I want to state that it is obvious the Dispatches Undercover Mosque video footage is heavily edited. So I do not take everything said there as how it actually happened. But some of it I do think is as was depicted.

Anyway in a rebuttal video one of the speakers addresses the ‘Aisha’ marriage.

youtube.com/watch?v=eqH7NNTvhqU
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I haven’t watched the rebuttal video yet, but thanks for bringing the Dispatches series to my attention. That is seriously disturbing. Editing or no editing, what these men are saying is evil.
 
Eden said:
I haven’t watched the rebuttal video yet, but thanks for bringing the Dispatches series to my attention. That is seriously disturbing. Editing or no editing, what these men are saying is evil.
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Well, one thing watching the Dispatches series has done for me is make me understand, finally, the whole “N-word” thing, that is, understand why that word is so offensive to African-Americans. This is because of the use of “Kuffar” in the videos. How is using the word Kuffar in those videos any different than white people calling black people n***gers?
 
Ella said:
Well, one thing watching the Dispatches series has done for me is make me understand, finally, the whole “N-word” thing, that is, understand why that word is so offensive to African-Americans. This is because of the use of “Kuffar” in the videos. How is using the word Kuffar in those videos any different than white people calling black people n***gers?
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South Africans used to refer to black people as Kaffirs
 
Montalban said:
South Africans used to refer to black people as Kaffirs
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…which comes from the Muslim term - Muslim slaves were usually Africans from the east coast eg Horn of Africa, Tanzania
Green Lane Mosque, featured in Undercover Mosque, is just down the road from me - I pass it nearly every day
the whole area is a hotbed of Islamists and terrorist sympathisers/extremists
yes, all TV programmes are heavily edited - but some of the things that were said, is there any context that makes them inoffensive?
they sound a lot worse than the things said by Nick Griffin anyway
 
jack hawkins, I read this some time ago…

“Abu Darda reported that the Holy Prophet (Muhammed) said: Allah created Adam when he created him. Then He stroke his right shoulder and took out a white race as if they were seeds, and He stroke his left shoulder and took out a black race as if they were coals. Then He said to those who were in his right side: Towards paradise and I don’t care. He said to those who were on his left shoulder: Towards Hell and I don’t care.”
(Hadith, Mishkat ul-Masabih, translated by Karim, v. iii, p. 117)
 
blimey, that’s very close to the “mud people” idea of white supremacists! that’s really frightening, but fits with what I have heard some Muslims say
 
jack_hawkins said:
blimey, that’s very close to the “mud people” idea of white supremacists! that’s really frightening, but fits with what I have heard some Muslims say
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I’ve seen advertised two books
*Slavery in the Arab World * by Murray Gordon and
*Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast and Italy, 1500-1800 *(Early Modern History) by Robert C. Davis
Which deal with Moslem slavery (of blacks, and whites respectively)

oh, and
*Islam’s Black Slaves: The Other Black Diaspora * by Ronald Segal
 
jack_hawkins said:
…which comes from the Muslim term - Muslim slaves were usually Africans from the east coast eg Horn of Africa, Tanzania
Green Lane Mosque, featured in Undercover Mosque, is just down the road from me - I pass it nearly every day
the whole area is a hotbed of Islamists and terrorist sympathisers/extremists
yes, all TV programmes are heavily edited - but some of the things that were said, is there any context that makes them inoffensive?
they sound a lot worse than the things said by Nick Griffin anyway
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What an irony that an African-American man is calling peopel Kuffar in most of the first segment of the video…
 
How about those arguments that say that young marriage was normal in a tribal setting?

This means that Muhammed’s example was based on a god that didn’t know any better than a primitive tribe.
 
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